More Christian tattoo artists a positive development?

[farouk]

Scruples is more related to one's own conscience than to fear. If a client hasn't settled the matter with their own conscience, they have no business being in that chair.

@Sabertooth Good point! :)

At the same time, there is also something that is "plucking up courage", even as the person in question is already sure he or she wishes to be injected with the design. (So I guess that the word her would not really be 'scruples', right?)

There were some discussions on the theme of tattoo regret several months ago; but someone "plucking up courage" to receive an inking that he or she is sure about is less likely to be regretful later than is a person who gets inked in haste, on a whim, so to speak.

 

[Sabertooth]

...but someone "plucking up courage" to receive an inking that he or she is sure about is less likely to be regretful later than is a person who gets inked in haste, on a whim, so to speak.

I am skeptical about that. The Holy Spirit is always bringing me through constant paradigm shifts in the process of sanctification. My perspective is constantly changing because of Him. What seemed harmless before always takes on more nuance as I walk in Him. It is much like how different the world looks when you are in kindergarten vs how it looks when you graduate high school. And in the Holy Spirit, that is a lifelong process. So, I am hesitant to ever think that I have a complete understanding of a situation; just a tentative one.

"Come now, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit'; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, 'If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.'” James 4:13-15 NKJV

 

[farouk]

Thanks to all who voted so far in the poll!

NB: If you have not yet voted in the poll, please vote now! :)

 

[farouk]

I am skeptical about that. The Holy Spirit is always bringing me through constant paradigm shifts in the process of sanctification. My perspective is constantly changing because of Him. What seemed harmless before always takes on more nuance as I walk in Him. It is much like how different the world looks when you are in kindergarten vs how it looks when you graduate high school. And in the Holy Spirit, that is a lifelong process. So, I am hesitant to ever think that I have a complete understanding of a situation; just a tentative one.

"Come now, you who say, 'Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, spend a year there, buy and sell, and make a profit'; whereas you do not know what will happen tomorrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appears for a little time and then vanishes away. Instead you ought to say, 'If the Lord wills, we shall live and do this or that.'” James 4:13-15 NKJV

@Sabertooth

Some good insights there! Yes, sanctification is something that never stops in the believer's life.

If a client hasn't settled the matter with their own conscience, they have no business being in that chair.

@Sabertooth The Christian would be tattooee, as he or she prepares for the chair, needs to be convinced first of all in good conscience that it will indeed be a wholesome inking experience, right? :)

 

[Sabertooth]

The Christian... needs to be convinced first of all in good conscience that it will indeed be a wholesome inking experience, right?

"Wholesome inking experience?" More, that this choice has God's blessing; that God is cool

1. with them getting a tat, in the first place; and
2. with their choice of imagery.

"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NKJV

Being a "temple of the Holy Spirit" doesn't mean that we may not get a tattoo, but it does mean that we should defer such big decisions to Him. (This goes for any cosmetic alteration.)

And after we get married,
"The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does." 1 Corinthians 7:4 NKJV

 

[farouk]

"Wholesome inking experience?" More, that this choice has God's blessing; that God is cool

1. with them getting a tat, in the first place; and
2. with their choice of imagery.

"Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NKJV

Being a "temple of the Holy Spirit" doesn't mean that we may not get a tattoo, but it does mean that we should defer such big decisions to Him. (This goes for any cosmetic alteration.)

And after we get married,
"The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does." 1 Corinthians 7:4 NKJV

@Sabertooth Yes, excellent points; by 'wholesome' I guess I meant something that will be God honoring, in conscience.

I can even see how some ppl who do feel led to get inked with a faith based design might feel that the service of an artist - believer or not - might for them be the Lord's provision.

(Here there would be a very personal sense of perspective, of course; what might apply to one person might not apply to another, if this makes sense?)

 

[Sabertooth]

...might feel that the service of an artist - believer or not - might for them be the Lord's provision.

Christians can GO to secular artists. They just can't BE secular artists (beyond the benign; the subject of the OP).

 

[farouk]

Christians can GO to secular artists. They just can't BE secular artists (beyond the benign; the subject of the OP).

@Sabertooth I do see the distinction. There is a sense that if the tattoo is in fact God honoring, it's not particularly secular, if this is logical?

 

[farouk]

I guess so. Tattoos are becoming ubiquitous. I've seen teenage girls with sleeves, and that was almost twenty years ago.

@shnarkle I guess they would now be approaching age 40...and for them the idea of getting inked would be a commonplace option for moms and their daughters as well as for dads and their sons...

Some Christians, instead of fighting the medium, instead embrace it and try to make the tattoo parlor visit something memorable and faith related, as a witness facilitator, if this makes sense?

 

[Sabertooth]

I was going to say that some of the strictures one hears from cultural Fundies would seem to imply that a trainee doctor supposedly cannot learn anatomy and a talented artist can't even draw medical anatomical resources.

I think that you need to move past your preoccupation with the "Fundies."

Let them have their space. (I got Saved through the faithful efforts of "Fundies," though sanctification has brought me to a different place, now.) If they are not your "cup of tea," find a place that is and fellowship with them (instead of criticizing effigies). When God pours out His Spirit on all flesh [Acts of the Apostles 2:17-18], no Christian will remain a Cessationist.

The Church may look like a chaotic mess (to us), but I believe that God's methods are deliberate in how He is bringing Her about.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV

 

[farouk]

I think that you need to move past your preoccupation with the "Fundies."

Let them have their space. (I got Saved through the faithful efforts of "Fundies," though sanctification has brought me to a different place, now.) If they are not your "cup of tea," find a place that is and fellowship with them (instead of criticizing effigies). When God pours out His Spirit on all flesh [Acts of the Apostles 2:17-18], no Christian will remain a Cessationist.

The Church may look like a chaotic mess (to us), but I believe that God's methods are deliberate in how He is bringing Her about.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9 NKJV

@Sabertooth

Great passage there from Isaiah; and thank-you for the exhortation.

I guess it doesn't have to be those who are actually called Fundamentalists; it's also a mindset whereby one person or group of person's subjective personal preferences is then foisted on everyone else; the challenges is to keep looking Godward and not let that mindset disturb (sometimes this can be difficult, if you get my idea?)

 

[farouk]

Re. the poll results, I see that no one — no one — has voted to indicate that being a tattoo artists is supposedly something only for men to work at. (The tattoo scene used to be heavily - almost exclusively - among men, but this has changed. Some would say, this is for the better: no one has voted to support it as a male only environment.)

 

[farouk]

I like Radical. Great song. But now I was talking more about genuine praise songs TO the Lord rather than about Him, or one's connection to Him. More Than A Man was an example of a Stryper song that fit the description, though I think there were a few others.

You know, posting quite frequently about things like tattoos and Christian rock makes me wonder if you might not actually be a member of Disciple, Farouk...

Is that true? :)

@Hidden In Him No I'm not! but it's undoubted in my mind that Christian witness is expressed sometimes through mediums such as rock lyrics, tattoo designs, etc. Your being influenced for good by the Christian lyrics expressed in quality hard rock is a case in point. I'm sure others have been challenged as a result of Stryper being willing to express such lyrics in hard rock. My wife and I talked to a young lady with the whole of John 3.16 tattooed on her wrist area; it was her favorite verse and mine also; and I'm sure other conversations have arisen as a result of her willingness as a young adult to use a tattoo parlor thus. It's not really about feeling good with hard rock and tattoos; rather, it's about in conscience feeling good and compelled to witness through these means. (If you follow...?)

(I'm putting this here also, because it's highly relevant and on topic here also.)

 

[farouk]

I'm a pragmatist. What can I say?

@Prayer Warrior Also I think part of pragmatism when it comes to tattoos lies in the fact that they very obviously are proven to work: e.g., wrists, etc., inked with Bible phrases / Christian fish signs <><, and so forth do indeed bring about witness conversations. Christian young men and women now widely - instead of fighting the medium - embrace it; pragmatically, doing it is proven to work in witness conversations. Pragmatically and realistically it has been mainstreamed into a serious and wholesome means of expression which is just plain effective.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

@Prayer Warrior Also I think part of pragmatism when it comes to tattoos lies in the fact that they very obviously are proven to work: e.g., wrists, etc., inked with Bible phrases / Christian fish signs <><, and so forth do indeed bring about witness conversations. Christian young men and women now widely - instead of fighting the medium - embrace it; pragmatically, doing it is proven to work in witness conversations. Pragmatically and realistically it has been mainstreamed into a serious and wholesome means of expression which is just plain effective.

LOL! Better to argue about tattoos than spiritual gifts, right?

 

[farouk]

LOL! Better to argue about tattoos than spiritual gifts, right?

@Prayer Warrior Actually I didn't think we were arguing about tattoos :); I wondered maybe if you would think that what my post #514 said - following on from your earlier one - was in fact self evident?

(Doing faith ink it because it works.)

 

[farouk]

tattoos are a lot more mainstream.

@Prayer Warrior You're quite right; hence more possibilities.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

@Prayer Warrior Actually I didn't think we were arguing about tattoos :); I wondered maybe if you would think that what my post #514 said - following on from your earlier one - was in fact self evident?

(Doing faith ink it because it works.)

No, I didn't mean arguing literally, but I don't understand the rest of your comment.

 

[farouk]

No, I didn't mean arguing literally, but I don't understand the rest of your comment.

@Prayer Warrior Oh, it was just around your use of the word pragmatic in another post on this thread; I guess I was also adding a comment about how pragmatism also fits into other aspects of getting inked with faith based designs.

 

[farouk]

I believe what he’s obsessed with is his freedom and your freedom to serve God

@Waiting on him For many Christian men and (perhaps especially) women now it's far less about "Oh, this hurts!" or "Oh, this feels good!" than it is about thinking strategically and exercising freedom in investing in the increasing likelihood of witness through faith based designs.

In other words, worth it for them in their estimation if it serves this strategic goal.