The Jews also said elsewhere that Yeshua broke the Sabbath. Were they correct? No. Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) is NOT Almighty YHWH
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It means his Father was "God" (Almighty YHWH). It means YHWH brought him into existence.
Yeshua did not give any Laws to the Jews. You love to read stuff into the Word which is why you have such absurd doctrines.
John 19:7
The Jews answered him, WE have a LAW, and BY OUR LAW he ought to die,
BECAUSE he made himself the
SON of God.
I guess you are unaware, God CAN NOT REPRODUCE.
I guess you are unaware, of the Jews, you call ignorant WERE fully AWARE, God CAN NOT REPRODUCE, and for one to CALL themselves the SON of God, IS MAKING THEMSELF EQUAL TO GOD.[/QUOTE]
You ignore John 17:11, 22 in which Yeshua said believers should be one in the exact same sense as he and his Father are one.
John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Therefore, if you are correct, then Yeshua said believers "ARE the SAME ONE Spirit"
Taken
Well-Known Member
Uh...error.
Ex 35:2
....rest on the seventh day.
Did Jesus rest on the seventh day, or go about performing miracles?
God Bless,
Taken
What a bunch of linguistic gymnastics! Yeshua will be subject to YHWH after he turns the Kingdom over to Him. Even in verse 27 we see that YHWH is not put under Yeshua, but everything else is. Even if "within the power of" is part of the meaning of "hupotasso", it doesn't change anything. It simply means the Son is in the power of YHWH just as all subjects of any kingdom are in the power of the king.GINOLJC, to all
I'll answer both, yea all of your question,
#1. no I'm not a trinitarian, nor a oneness proponent? Diversified Oneness is totally different...
#2. the Spirit Diversified himself as the "OFFSPRING" in flesh. what was begotten was flesh, the only begotten of the Spirit is the body he shared himself in...., you know nothing of God and his workings.
now your #3. glad you asked. I'm going to give you the short and stright to the point, now follow.
"The subjection of Christ within God".
did you see that "within", listen, 1 Corinthians 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all"
the whole purpose of Christ being subject to God is that "God may be all in all" .... Right.
1 Corinthians 15:28 it says for "the Son to BE Subject" ... Right.
this is your first mistake, because you think that "be Subject" means UNDER, don't you...
well wake up because it don't. did you see that verb "BE" before Subject, which it modifies the word subject.
Listen up,
SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. if you don't have the dictionary, here's a link to it. Websters Dictionary 1828 - Webster's Dictionary 1828 - subject
the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. so scroll down to SUBJECT, verb transitive (that will alert one quickly, the action of a person, and not the person themselves). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. Look at Definition #2, To put under or within the power of. lets look the definition and understand this revelation. according to the definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within” within the power of). lets back this up with our second understanding. G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
[from G5259 and G5021]
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding. lets see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here is the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” is done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself WHICH IS THE ROOT of subject. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, lets see what G5259 ὑπό hupo
(hoop-oh') states,
1.under
2.(with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3.(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
[a primary preposition]
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used "WITH" verbs. there is our conformation, the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is use in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”.
if you don't understand I suggest you go back and read it again.
Now, knowing this, that the verb "BE" used before Subject, modifies the meaning of Subject. when used with a verb "BE", Be subject means "WITHIN".
NOW, we see why our Lord is God "ALL IN ALL", as the last part of 1 Corinthians 15:28 says, "that God may be all in all".
now the conclusion: to be all in all, but at present he's the diversity or as the Greeks say he the G243 Allos of himself, or the numerical difference of himself, meaning two... (Father & Son)...
Now to answer you Question, "Who is the Son turning the Kingdom over to in 1 Corinthians 15:24-28? Who will the Son be subject to at that time? Himself? "
I know you're feeling a little shame right now finding out "BE SUBJECT" means within...
but don't because you just didn't know. but now you will. listen up,
since it's a numerically two, (Father and Son) remember the Father is spirit, (subject, abstract), and the Son Flesh & Bones, (object, concrete), so how do God be ALL in ALL. here's how. again I'll make it short and to the point. the term for a NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE is called DIFFERENTIATION. question, "what is the OPPOSITE of DIFFERENTIATION?" since the process of “ANOTHER'”, is the sharing of Spirit, (the offspring, the Son). so, what is the opposite of DIFFERENTIATION, answer, "ASSIMILATION", hence the "WITHIN" God to be "ALL in ALL".
now do I have scripture to back this up? yes, Colossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". NOW ONE MORE FOR SURETY. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Colossians 1:19 "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell".
HOW MUCH FULLNESS? ALL OF IT... yes the Lord Jesus is the Father in Flesh. and guess what, when he, the Father, the Spirit deliver up the Kingdom unto him, how many FACES will you see? let's check the record, Revelation 22:3 "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads".
how many Faces will we see? HIS, meaning only ONE. ain't God Good...
see how easy that was? if one just search the scriptures and research out these word out then one can KNOW God, not LEARN God. let the Holy Spirit Reveal himself to you.
see, a long, long, long time agao a JW asked me that same question, for he understood what I saying concering Diversified Oneness, that one question he had left, the one you asked. and it changed him.
hope you learn something. Peace in Christ Jesus.
I touched it. You just didn't read it.
Yes, he rested. Performing miracles is NOT forbidden work (another example of the Jew's ignorance). I want no part of your sinful savior. I'll take my sinless Savior.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
Don't be spiteful, for in saying so, you bring that very word upon yourself.
Be prepared to explain to YHWH why you turned His child and Yeshua's servant over to Satan. Let's see if your arrogant spirituality will save you.
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ScottA
Well-Known Member
Spite again...and implementing the Spirit too
Taken
Well-Known Member
Pretty presumptuous on your part, but then it is already established you favor Carnal Understanding. So did the Jews, as their understanding was strictly adherence and obedience to the Law. Their ignorance YOU purpose was WAS because of their adherence To the Law, when in fact their ignorance was lack of believing and understanding their Law was being fulfilled.
My Lord did violate the Law as was the process and order God designed For Christ the Lord Jesus to Fulfill the Law.
Obviously by your false remark you failed to recognize the facts.
God Bless,
Taken
I never said that. Their ignorance was a lack of understanding the Law. It certainly was NOT being fulfilled to its abolishment at that time. Yeshua was living under the Old Covenant and needed to fulfill that covenant perfectly/sinlessly in order to be our Savior. One sin would have disqualified him. Thus, since he was sinless, that means he never broke the Law or the Sabbath. Since he never broke the Law, the Jews (and YOU) falsely accused him of breaking the Sabbath.
He fulfilled the Law by breaking the Law???? Where do you come up with these wacko ideas??
Taken
Well-Known Member
You have indicated the Jews were ignorant and liars.
The Jews understanding of their Law was to do "no work" on the Sabbath.
Exodus 23:12
Did Jesus "do work" on the Sabbath?
Yes He did!
You can deny the facts.
Denial of facts is a result of hanging on CARNAL understanding/ opposed to SPIRITUAL understanding.
IOW....you can't change the facts but you can change your understanding of the facts, which is precisely what Jesus was revealing.
I mentioned CARNAL understanding...
You replied perturbed.
Then you immediately went into a speal on logical understanding.
Perhaps you failed to KNOW logical understanding is CARNAL understanding.
Spiritual Understanding does not come from a mans CARNAL logical thinking reasoning MIND.
Spiritual Understanding comes expressly from God Himself.
You are also seemingly unaware JESUS gave men Spiritual Understanding.
God Bless,
Taken
I don't recall calling the Jews "liars". Please direct me to that post. Nor were the Jews ignorant about everything in the Law. They were ignorant about how to keep the Sabbath holy. They added many man-made prohibitions to it that made it a burden to keep. Yeshua corrected them. I do not deny Yeshua "worked". I deny your understanding that his works broke the Sabbath. If you want to believe the Law was already abolished by the time John 5 took place allowing him to then do forbidden work, that is on you. The majority of Christians have him abolishing the Law by nailing it to the tree he died on. Even that is false, but your view is much worse. You have a Savior that is spotted/blemished/tainted with sin.
You can also try to exalt your spirituality over mine as most Christians do when they are confronted by a teaching they disagree with, but the Scriptures make it clear he NEVER sinned (never broke the Law). Yes, Yeshua gave men Spiritual understanding. There are also men that lack it in certain areas. You lack it is this area. By saying Yeshua "violated the Law", you make him equally a sinner with the people he came to save. As I said before, my Savior is NOT a sinner.
Mat 12:9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue:
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. (The Jews believed healing on the Sabbath was a forbidden work).
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. (Yeshua taught them that healing on the Sabbath was NOT a forbidden work and neither was working to pull a sheep out of a pit. He was teaching them that acts of mercy, especially in the preservation of life and health, were acceptable works in YHWH's eyes).
Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
Mat 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Mat 12:10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. (The Jews believed healing on the Sabbath was a forbidden work).
Mat 12:11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
Mat 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. (Yeshua taught them that healing on the Sabbath was NOT a forbidden work and neither was working to pull a sheep out of a pit. He was teaching them that acts of mercy, especially in the preservation of life and health, were acceptable works in YHWH's eyes).
Mat 12:13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.
Mat 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
Taken
Well-Known Member
That's a bold claim to make for the "majority" of Christians. I have never heard a Christian say Jesus ABOLISHED the Law.
Interesting! You make a FALSE claim FOR a "MAJORITY" of Christians, then announce the CLAIM "YOU MAKE", to be false.
Seems the CLAIM you are making for others, is what is FALSE.
Another of your False claims, you make for another.
I have a Savior that was and is without Sin and fulfilled the law.
I disagree with you...and made that clear.
If you think I am trusting what I believe over what you believe, that would be correct.
Perhaps you failed to notice you do the same.
And....? NO ONE said He did!!
Your point is moot.
YOU just SAID, "YES", Jesus worked on the Sabbath.
I already referenced you the LAW....Here it is AGAIN...
EX 23:12
SIX days thou shalt do thy work, AND
On the SEVENTH DAY THOU SHALT REST!!!!
You have to change the truth into a lie, for it to make sense to you.
The thing is, JESUS DID WORK on the Sabbath, and by the Jews understanding HE DID Violate the Law.
Spiritual understanding IS, JESUS IS WITHOUT SIN. He came to TEACH men HOW TO "BE" LIKE HIM. And While He did NOT abolish the LAW..... MEN WHO "WERE" UNDER THE LAW, BECAME REDEEMED from the (curse/sin) "CONSEQUENCES" of the LAW.
You should have LEARNED, JESUS WAS NOT SUBJECT TO THE CONSEQUENCES of the LAW.
NO CONSEQUENCES, makes the LAW null and void "FOR a man NOT, or NO LONGER "UNDER" the LAW.
Gal 3:13
CHRIST hath REDEEMED us from the CURSE of the Law....
He still does. As HE IS THE POWER OF GOD...
And Plainly Scripture NOTIFIES us, Christ IS the Power of God and HAS THE AUTHORITY to Conform EVERY man WHO subjects themselves TO HIM....
Which ALSO makes YOUR OP title false.
You can repeat yourself umpteen times....
But your attempting to PRETEND anyone has said Jesus WAS a sinner....is simply a LIE.
You are without understanding.
You are BOLD to SAY WHAT JESUS CHRIST IS NOT.....When God Himself SAY WHAT JESUS CHRIST IS...
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith,
Thy Throne, O GOD, is for ever and ever...
1 Cor 1:24
...CHRIST the POWER OF GOD...
God Bless,
Taken
Then you have your head in the sand. That is their primary argument for not keeping the Law. Yes, they say it was "fulfilled", rather than using the word "abolished", but their view of fulfillment means it no longer needs to be kept.
You wrote, "Several times the Jews ACCUSED Jesus of Blasphemy....
And so WELL Jesus DID VIOLATE their LAWS! " You also wrote that "their laws" were God's laws. Therefore, you said Yeshua "violated" God's laws by violating the law of the Jews. Is that not sin (1 John 3:4)?
According to you, you agree with the Jews in the phrase I bolded. You agree he "violated the Law (God's Law). You are arguing that the Jews were correct in their understanding that Yeshua sinned and you agree with them.
You did not address post #174. Were the Jews correct that healing was forbidden on the Sabbath? NO! That was a work THEY would not allow, but it was a work that YHWH allowed. The Jews were wrong because they approached the Law legalistically rather than with circumcised hearts full of mercy.
Correct. Since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), he was "WITHOUT TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.
Yeshua was "under the Law" and was subject to its consequences/curses.
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
He lived under the Old Covenant and was expected/required to obey it as were all other Israelites. To break it was to sin and become blemished. It is through his TOTAL obedience to the Law, making himself eligible to be the unblemished atoning sacrifice for the sins of mankind and taking our sins/condemnation upon himself, that allows US to no longer be under the condemnation/curse of the Law.
Are you saying that because Messiah is the power of God and has authority over all, that that makes him YHWH?? Did the fact/type that Joseph received all power and authority over Egypt make him Pharaoh?? No. It made him SECOND IN COMMAND under Pharaoh. Yeshua fulfills the type by becoming SECOND IN COMMAND under YHWH, but it does NOT make him YHWH.
Finish your statements. What am I saying Yeshua is or is not?
Are you aware that the Hebrew word for "God" is "elohim" in Psalm 45:6 and that "elohim" is used of YHWH AND men? Can any man be called "GOD"? NO. Therefore, when we translate "elohim" as applied to men, as in Psalm 82, we translate it "gods" or "god". Since Yeshua himself said his Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD" (John 17:3), then to translate the word "elohim" when used of other beings beside Yeshua's Father is to make more than one God. If you want Hebrews 1:8 to imply that the Son is the "TRUE GOD", then you have TWO GODS. To avoid this natural blasphemy, we must apply the word "elohim" or the Greek "theos" as we would to other beings besides YHWH. Other ways to translate Psalm 45:6 in order to avoid polytheism are;
Thy throne, O god, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thy throne, O elohim, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thy throne, O mighty one, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thy throne, O elohim, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Thy throne, O mighty one, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
Back to the OP
The corrected version;
Yeshua is NOT "the Highest". He is not equal to the Highest. He is NOT "YHWH Elohim" who is the being that gives him the throne of David. He is the Son of the Highest (the Highest being his Father, Almighty YHWH). He is the Son of YHWH, NOT YHWH Himself.
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: KJV
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: KJV
The corrected version;
Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Yeshua.
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and YHWH Elohim shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and YHWH Elohim shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Yeshua is NOT "the Highest". He is not equal to the Highest. He is NOT "YHWH Elohim" who is the being that gives him the throne of David. He is the Son of the Highest (the Highest being his Father, Almighty YHWH). He is the Son of YHWH, NOT YHWH Himself.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. KJV
The corrected version;
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only YHWH Elohim, and our Master Yeshua Messiah.
YHWH and Yeshua are two distinct beings even after Yeshua's resurrection. Jude understood that as did John.
Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for [YHWH Elohim] Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
YHWH and the Lamb (Yeshua) are two distinct beings even after Yeshua's resurrection. They will always be two separate and distinct beings; the Father and His Son.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your posts are all over the place. Stick to one point, if you care for a response.
God Bless,
Taken
My point has always been the same unless someone (like yourself) derails the thread into a Law thread. My point in post #177 is that Yeshua is NOT "the Highest" or "YHWH Elohim" who is "the Highest". My point in post #178 is that YHWH (Yeshua's Father) and the Lamb (Yeshua) are two separate and distinct beings. Both posts are very simple to understand if you approach them with a heart seeking understanding and truth.
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