Mary is all powerful!

[reformed1689]

he was an apostle

and the successors are the bishops

if a condition for apostle is not possible then it’s not required

So now you are changing your story. Either there is apostolic succession or there is not. There clearly is not.

 

[reformed1689]

yes!

its not the throne of Jesus

he sits at the right hand of the father on the great white throne!

it’s Mary mother of divine grace!
She’s full of grace! Lk 1:28
She found favor! Lk 1:30
She consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
She is the mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

HERESY

Mary does not consent to anything for us, SHE IS JUST LIKE US, A SINNER!

 

[Jim B]

I would like an answer to this question: what is it that compels people to go way beyond what Scripture clearly says? Why must people invent all kinds of myths and rituals that aren't contained in God's written word?

The first issue that comes to mind is the mythology of Mary. She is depicted in the Bible as a young woman who was chosen by God to give birth to His son Jesus. Then she and Joseph raised Him, along with His brothers and sisters. When He became an adult, He clearly separated Himself from her. (Matthew 12,47-49: "Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.") Of course, she was present at His death, but she is not a perpetual virgin, exalted to heaven, to whom anyone should pray. That is extra-Biblical mythology of the highest order and diminishes the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit only.

The second, and most egregious distortion, is depicting Jesus as still on the cross, when the Bible unequivocally says that He has been resurrected and is in heaven at God's right hand. The empty cross is a symbol of both His sacrifice and His resurrection.

There are many other issues, such as the offices of pope, cardinal, bishop; the confession of sins to a "father" who prescribes ritual prayers for absolution; baptism of infants by sprinkling them with water; denying non-Catholic believers the bread and wine of communion; and many others.

So, what is it that compels people to believe and behave in this manner, separating themselves from Biblical Christianity?

 

[theefaith]

You are grasping straws with this argument. There is no reason to believe that they were not his blood brothers and sisters by the plain reading of the text.

Are Abraham and lot brothers?

 

[reformed1689]

Are Abraham and lot brothers?

Already addressed this. They are kinsman. And again, there is nothing in the text to suggest that Jesus' brothers and sisters were not blood brothers and sisters.

 

[reformed1689]

I would like an answer to this question: what is it that compels people to go way beyond what Scripture clearly says? Why must people invent all kinds of myths and rituals that aren't contained in God's written word?

The first issue that comes to mind is the mythology of Mary. She is depicted in the Bible as a young woman who was chosen by God to give birth to His son Jesus. Then she and Joseph raised Him, along with His brothers and sisters. When He became an adult, He clearly separated Himself from her. (Matthew 12,47-49: "Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers.") Of course, she was present at His death, but she is not a perpetual virgin, exalted to heaven, to whom anyone should pray. That is extra-Biblical mythology of the highest order and diminishes the Godhead of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit only.

The second, and most egregious distortion, is depicting Jesus as still on the cross, when the Bible unequivocally says that He has been resurrected and is in heaven at God's right hand. The empty cross is a symbol of both His sacrifice and His resurrection.

There are many other issues, such as the offices of pope, cardinal, bishop; the confession of sins to a "father" who prescribes ritual prayers for absolution; baptism of infants by sprinkling them with water; denying non-Catholic believers the bread and wine of communion; and many others.

So, what is it that compels people to believe and behave in this manner, separating themselves from Biblical Christianity?

Satan

 

[theefaith]

Well at least what I am saying is actually written. Jesus had brothers and sisters. Nowhere does it say Mary remained a virgin after Jesus' birth. It does say that Joseph had relations with her after Jesus birth. You are the one denying Scripture here.

no it does not say that anywhere

it says no sex lk 1:34

 

[theefaith]

And there are no apostles today. That closed with the end of Revelation. So yes, the Bible IS IN FACT the source of truth and rule of faith for Christians. Not the church.

then there is no salvation today!

 

[theefaith]

And there are no apostles today. That closed with the end of Revelation. So yes, the Bible IS IN FACT the source of truth and rule of faith for Christians. Not the church.

yes divine revelation ended but not the apostles or the teaching authority of Christ in his church

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15



1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:2


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Authority in what they teach and not in a person in an office!

Jesus is not our salvation: only what He taught?

Lk 2:30 Matt 16:16 Jesus in His person is our salvation, not only in what He taught!
Matt 16:13 not what do people say about what I teach, but whom do people say the I am!

The teaching of the successors of Moses not their person?

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1

Peters confession not Peters person? Matt 16:18

You give the keys to a person not to a confession!

Acts 1:26 they choose Mathias not the teaching of Mathias!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

No apostles?

who do we submit to?
Who has care for our souls?

Spiritual Fathers (apostles) have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[reformed1689]

yes divine revelation ended but not the apostles or the teaching authority of Christ in his church

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15



1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:2


The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!

Authority in what they teach and not in a person in an office!

Jesus is not our salvation: only what He taught?

Lk 2:30 Matt 16:16 Jesus in His person is our salvation, not only in what He taught!
Matt 16:13 not what do people say about what I teach, but whom do people say the I am!

The teaching of the successors of Moses not their person?

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1

Peters confession not Peters person? Matt 16:18

You give the keys to a person not to a confession!

Acts 1:26 they choose Mathias not the teaching of Mathias!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

To teach what Scripture taught, nothing else. Nothing added. The RCC ADDS to Scripture and that is sin.

 

[reformed1689]

then there is no salvation today!

What a dumb comment. How in the world does that mean there is no salvation today?

 

[reformed1689]

no it does not say that anywhere

it says no sex lk 1:34

It says there was no sex BEFORE Christ was born. What on earth makes you think Luke 1:34 applies to after his birth? That's just stupid. I mean really REALLY ignorant and stupid.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Mary is all powerful!

don’t ya want to know how?

lol.

You go to far on some of these things my friend.

Mary is a saved sinner like you and I.. She is not God.

 

[theefaith]

So now you are changing your story. Either there is apostolic succession or there is not. There clearly is not.

Christ say there is, must teach all nations, Matt 28:19 how could they without apostolic succession? The good ole USA was not a nation till 1800 yrs later

and He says to his apostles
I am with you until the end of the world Matt 28:19

 

[theefaith]

HERESY

Mary does not consent to anything for us, SHE IS JUST LIKE US, A SINNER!

mary was preserved from all sin by God in virture of the merits of Christ lk 1:49

 

[theefaith]

mary was preserved from all sin by God in virture of the merits of Christ lk 1:49

 

[theefaith]

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[reformed1689]

Christ say there is, must teach all nations, Matt 28:19 how could they without apostolic succession? The good ole USA was not a nation till 1800 yrs later

and He says to his apostles
I am with you until the end of the world Matt 28:19

How could they without Apostolic Succession? HMMMM pretty easy, we have his teaching recorded in Scripture. Just teach Scripture. This is not difficult. What does the USA have to do with our discussion??

 

[reformed1689]

mary was preserved from all sin by God in virture of the merits of Christ lk 1:49

How does Luke 1:49 in any way say Mary was sinless. Please exegete for us.