Losing Your Salvation - Bible Verses

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friend of

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It's not that OSAS is satanic. We just believe that God doesn't change His mind about the children He calls out of the world for Himself. The vast majority of OSAS are not antinomian. To think otherwise is rather cynical. We just don't believe in Revolving Door Salvationism (RDS) where sinning expels us from the kingdom of God until we repent. God knows our hearts and knows that we live a lifestyle of repentance in spite of falling short from time to time.

Anyway Johnson, it's nothing personal against you, but you seem to have come her just to manhandle members here. What is the purpose of your being here, if I may ask?
 

mailmandan

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Context answers your question. Before he would baptize the religious leaders wanting FORGIVENESS/REMISSION of their sins. What did John say?

MAT 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming for baptism, he said to them, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? :8 Bear fruit that befits repentance,
Actually, you did not answer my question. The Pharisees and Sadducees/brood of vipers had no intention of repentance or bearing fruit worthy of repentance.

Also notice in Luke 7:29 - When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they justified God/acknowledged God's justice, (signified by) having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, (signified by) not having been baptized by John.

Becoming a disciple of John was a heart decision out of repentance made prior to receiving water baptism.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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It's not that OSAS is satanic.

The devil told Adam and Eve that if they sinned against God, they would not die spiritually.
God told Adam and Eve if they sinned (disobey Him) they would die spiritually.

Romans 8:13
if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


Today the OSAS peoples are saying the same thing the devil said which is... you can sin against God and not die spiritually in spite of what the New Testament says...

That's satan's message to the masses... so the OSAS peoples are speaking in behalf of the devil.

It's not a matter of God changing His mind... it's the matter of the Lord having created mankind in His Image which means man has free will... and the fact the God built His entire Kingdom on the seedtime and harvest principle. (Gal 6:7,8)

God is just and cannot lie... so if you sow to the flesh you shall of the flesh reap corruption... unless you repent and turn away from your sin asking the Lord for forgiveness. He put that in the New Covenant because of His mercy and grace because He knew all of us would not be perfect after being born again.

These are all basic foundational truths the OSAS people cannot understand due to having rejected the whole counsel of God. They have no idea that God replicated Himself when He created man.

Even if you don't live in sin... the OSAS peoples are telling others that they cannot lose their salvation and that is sinful because it's not biblical and it causes others to go to hell.
 
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mailmandan

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Anyway Johnson, it's nothing personal against you, but you seem to have come her just to manhandle members here. What is the purpose of your being here, if I may ask?
Good question. His main purpose of being here seems to be:

1. Relentlessly attack OSAS.
2. Slander believers in the OSAS camp.
 

Taken

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Exactly... unless one does not separate themselves from the world anc continues in sin or goes back to living in sin.

No. Those who ARE NOT SEPARATED, do not GO BACK to living in sin…THEY ARE IN SIN!

You do not BECOME CHANGED into a new creature, and then GO BACK to BEING the old creature.

Do you NOT KNOW, the old creature IS DEAD?
Really? You think a man has the power to “recreate” their old creature and think a saved living soul and born again quickened spirit crawl back into that dead body?

Your caveat, “unless a man goes back to living in sin”….DOES NOT APPLY TO A MAN CONVERTED IN CHRIST!!”

Your own words repeatedly prove your lack of understanding.

There is Reason God created manKind with two ears and only one mouth.
 

Eternally Grateful

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It's not that OSAS is satanic. We just believe that God doesn't change His mind about the children He calls out of the world for Himself. The vast majority of OSAS are not antinomian. To think otherwise is rather cynical. We just don't believe in Revolving Door Salvationism (RDS) where sinning expels us from the kingdom of God until we repent. God knows our hearts and knows that we live a lifestyle of repentance in spite of falling short from time to time.

Anyway Johnson, it's nothing personal against you, but you seem to have come her just to manhandle members here. What is the purpose of your being here, if I may ask?
Like a few before him. He is here to puff himself up by attacking people he does not know..

I think if we get to the root of it. He is anti calvinism, and thinks everyone who believes in eternal security is calvinist.. so he can not see what they really believe
 

Taken

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Not all who lip the name of JESUS CHRIST are HIS . THAT my friend you already know well .
yet why is it often men of OSAS disregaurd the fact that paul even warns and warned the church
YE MUST CONTINUE IN HIM ,
HIS GOODNESS OR YOU TOO WILL BE CAST OUT .
WHY , WHY did they LIKE JESUS warn and remind the church YE MUST CONTINUE .


WHO is the Church?
People sitting in the pews of a church?

People sitting in the pews of a church, are being Preached to. (Supposedly being preached the Word of God.)

Is every person sitting in a pew of a church, believing, verifying what they hear? No.

Is every Believing person sitting in a church pew week after week SAVED because they sit in a church pew week after week?

What ARE “THEY” who BeLIEVE?Believers….PERIOD.
What ARE “BELIEVERS” WARNED?
To continue BELIEVING until the END?
END of what? End of the world? No.
Why not the end of the world? Because this is a world without end.
Isa. 45:17
Eph 3:21

So Believers are being WARNED to continue what? Their Belief in the Lord God…
Until WHEN? The END of their natural bodily life.
Will a mans natural bodily life come to an end? Yes. Gods WILL requires the end of natural life of man.

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

By WHAT POWER does a BELIEVING man endure or otherwise continue BELIEVING to the end of his natural life?
By his OWN will-power.

His OWN will-power!! WHY THE WARNING?
BECAUSE men are ALSO WARNED;
Evil spirits roam the earth LOOKING FOR MEN TO DEVOUR, using trickery and deceit to SWAY a Believing man AWAY FROM GOD.
AS WELL there ARE wicked men in “positions” of Power; wealthy influential men, sitting kings, (with armies at their beckon call ready to threaten and force men to YEILD to following them and what they say), and television commentators 24-7 blasting, advocating against the Lord God, and famous people, some with umpteen accolades of college degrees, sports figures, actors (whom many men hang on their every word against God and mimic their anti-Christ behaviors,) teachers advocating and influencing and rewarding young children to accept, tolerate and agree with anti-Christ choices.

So YES, God warns of evil spirits and wicked men ARE roaming the earth, looking for any way imaginable to LURE a less powerful) BELIEVER AWAY FROM GOD…

AND so sits God, bewildered? Twiddling his thumbs? Telling Believing men, too bad, so sad, IF you get caught in the snare of a cunning evil spirit, or cunning wicked man?

NO…God warns such men of the GRAVE DANGER THEY ARE IN. And God warns Parents of the Grave danger children are in being sent out into the world, having not yet been taught the majority of the world IS anti-Christ.

AND….AND….AND….God Offers BELIEVING MEN a ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPTION…they can ACCEPT or REJECT.

His OFFERING IS; THAT HIS SPIRIT WILL DWELL “IN” man… “IF” (And it would be handy knowledge for a man to KNOW, no evil spirits power and no sitting powerful, influential mans power is GREATER than GODS POWER)


Gods OFFERING is a mans CHOICE to agree with, accept or reject.
Reject…and that Believing man REMAINS subject to continual evil power and wicked mens powers that may at any time OVERPOWER the man.

IF a man Accepts Gods Offering….NEVER AGAIN can an evil spirit or powerful man CONVINCE the man to DEFLECT or REJECT or DENY the Lord God.

A man staying in BELIEF by his own POWER, is ALWAYS in danger of being OVERPOWERED by evil spirits and wicked men.

A man in BELIEF ACCEPTING Gods OFFERING, FOR EVER is Kept WITH God, BY Gods POWER, and that man REQUIRES no “warning” of making sure he “endures”…. “Hopes” he is not influenced or snared by powers stronger than himself….
BeCAUSE he HAS THE Highest Power of all, “IN” him, KEEPING that man WITH GOD FOREVER. <—- which is OSAS.

He whom that IS saved, IS born again, HAS Gods Power IN him…requires a Warning to make sure “THEY” endure (keep believing while dodging evil spirits and wicked men (BY THEIR own POWER) to the end of their natural life? No.

The warnings are to BELIEVERS.
Believers CAN Fall away From Believing.

The Believers WHO ALSO confess their Belief….are seal unto God ONLY. THEY ARE kept by Gods POWER IN THEM.
What warning do they require, when they CAN NOT FALL AWAY FROM BELIEF? ZIP.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Hillsage

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Actually, you did not answer my question. The Pharisees and Sadducees/brood of vipers had no intention of repentance or bearing fruit worthy of repentance.

Also notice in Luke 7:29 - When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they justified God/acknowledged God's justice, (signified by) having been baptized with the baptism of John. 30 But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God's purpose for themselves, (signified by) not having been baptized by John.

Becoming a disciple of John was a heart decision out of repentance made prior to receiving water baptism.
Actually I did answer your question with the verse I quoted. And the conclusion YOU SHOULD have gotten was the fact that John knew they weren't qualified for his baptism. And John did say why they were there "to flee the wrath that was coming". Same reason everyone else was there. And you quoting a chapter 7 verse to prove what happened in chapter 3!!!! Well, all I can say is if you have to go that far out of context to prove your point then there is a maxim you should learn.

WHEN YOUR 'TEXT' IS OUT CONTEXT, THEN YOUR TEXT IS PRETEXT. That's just one more reason as to how the church has gotten so doctrinally damaged ever since the church of Rome in 300AD.

And since you appear a bit clueless, let me also add. That post of mine was written to support your position. :Broadly:
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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Can you elaborate on this point?

The Lord desires to have fellowship with those that are like Him, which excludes angels and all other created being as they were not created in His Image. Mankind is the only being God created in His Own Image. We are valued above ALL other creatures because God's intention in creating us is to be in fellowship with man on God's level!

Speaking of those that have been born again Ephesians 2:6 tells us God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus. In other words, He wants fellowship with beings who are like Himself... who CHOOSE to be with Him! Who CHOOSE to turn away from darkness in order to walk and live in agreement with the Lord.

This is the whole purpose for our existence! Not only to desire to be with the Lord... but to put our faith and desire in to action and turn away from darkness, from things that the Lord does not approve of so we can fellowship with Him in righteousness.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOES righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


When someone derides to sin, they are willingly turning away from the Lord, on purpose after having come to the age of accountability where they know the difference between right and wrong (not speaking of little children)

There is no darkness in God (1 John 1:5), and the Lord has no fellowship with darkness (2 Corinthians 6:14)... so those that sin are separated from the Lord by their willingness to turn away from Him and walk in darkness.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


The OSAS peoples have been fooled intro believing one can do sin and not be separated from the Lord! This is not taught in God's Word. I get it that nobody wants to talk about what happens to those that continue in sin... but it's better to talk about what God's Word says about it than to make up a fake gospel that says "you can never ever never never lose your salvation"

This means if one continues in sin they must say this person is still saved because if they don't they are acknowledging that OSAS is false doctrine which will make them look stupid so as a matter of pride and in the interest of never being seen as being in error... they have to say those that continue in sin as still; saved in their view.

This obviously is NOT what God's Word teaches... and the OSAS peoples wouldn't know that because they don't accept all the Lord has said in His Word about it. They can't, because if they did they would have to admit that OSAS is false doctrine and they will never ever never never do that.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.


One cannot obtain mercy after they have sinned without confessing their sin unto the Lord and turning away from their sin. The old timers called it "admit it and quit it" and then we should make no provisions for the flesh to continue in sin (Romans 13:14) by walking after the Spirit so we aren't fulfilling the desires of the flesh (Galatians 5:16-26)

What the OSAS peoples won't tell you because they don't accept the validity of this is... God is NOT mocked... whatsoever a man sows, that shall He also reap he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. (Galatians 6:7-8)

They'll agree that when one is born again they did sow to the spirit and reaped life... but then they deny and ignore the rest of Galatians 6:7-8 claiming if one sows to the flesh (sins) they do not rep corruption.

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.

The OSAS peoples don't know that salvation is on God's terms and what Jesus did at the Cross of Calvary... does not eliminate or do away with seedtime and harvest. God is not mocked!

In Jesus' classic teaching on sowing and reaping, He said "Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?" (Mark 4:13)

God created man in His Image, therefore just like God... mankind reaps what he sows and is responsible for the seeds he plants. If man does good, he'll receive good... if he does evil, he'll receive evil.

Romans 2:9-11
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

Well, off to go get some lunch!
dinner-buffet.gif
 
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amigo de christo

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WHO is the Church?
People sitting in the pews of a church?

People sitting in the pews of a church, are being Preached to. (Supposedly being preached the Word of God.)

Is every person sitting in a pew of a church, believing, verifying what they hear? No.

Is every Believing person sitting in a church pew week after week SAVED because they sit in a church pew week after week?

What ARE “THEY” who BeLIEVE?Believers….PERIOD.
What ARE “BELIEVERS” WARNED?
To continue BELIEVING until the END?
END of what? End of the world? No.
Why not the end of the world? Because this is a world without end.
Isa. 45:17
Eph 3:21

So Believers are being WARNED to continue what? Their Belief in the Lord God…
Until WHEN? The END of their natural bodily life.
Will a mans natural bodily life come to an end? Yes. Gods WILL requires the end of natural life of man.

Gen 9:
[5] And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.

By WHAT POWER does a BELIEVING man endure or otherwise continue BELIEVING to the end of his natural life?
By his OWN will-power.

His OWN will-power!! WHY THE WARNING?
BECAUSE men are ALSO WARNED;
Evil spirits roam the earth LOOKING FOR MEN TO DEVOUR, using trickery and deceit to SWAY a Believing man AWAY FROM GOD.
AS WELL there ARE wicked men in “positions” of Power; wealthy influential men, sitting kings, (with armies at their beckon call ready to threaten and force men to YEILD to following them and what they say), and television commentators 24-7 blasting, advocating against the Lord God, and famous people, some with umpteen accolades of college degrees, sports figures, actors (whom many men hang on their every word against God and mimic their anti-Christ behaviors,) teachers advocating and influencing and rewarding young children to accept, tolerate and agree with anti-Christ choices.

So YES, God warns of evil spirits and wicked men ARE roaming the earth, looking for any way imaginable to LURE a less powerful) BELIEVER AWAY FROM GOD…

AND so sits God, bewildered? Twiddling his thumbs? Telling Believing men, too bad, so sad, IF you get caught in the snare of a cunning evil spirit, or cunning wicked man?

NO…God warns such men of the GRAVE DANGER THEY ARE IN. And God warns Parents of the Grave danger children are in being sent out into the world, having not yet been taught the majority of the world IS anti-Christ.

AND….AND….AND….God Offers BELIEVING MEN a ONCE IN A LIFE TIME OPTION…they can ACCEPT or REJECT.

His OFFERING IS; THAT HIS SPIRIT WILL DWELL “IN” man… “IF” (And it would be handy knowledge for a man to KNOW, no evil spirits power and no sitting powerful, influential mans power is GREATER than GODS POWER)


Gods OFFERING is a mans CHOICE to agree with, accept or reject.
Reject…and that Believing man REMAINS subject to continual evil power and wicked mens powers that may at any time OVERPOWER the man.

IF a man Accepts Gods Offering….NEVER AGAIN can an evil spirit or powerful man CONVINCE the man to DEFLECT or REJECT or DENY the Lord God.

A man staying in BELIEF by his own POWER, is ALWAYS in danger of being OVERPOWERED by evil spirits and wicked men.

A man in BELIEF ACCEPTING Gods OFFERING, FOR EVER is Kept WITH God, BY Gods POWER, and that man REQUIRES no “warning” of making sure he “endures”…. “Hopes” he is not influenced or snared by powers stronger than himself….
BeCAUSE he HAS THE Highest Power of all, “IN” him, KEEPING that man WITH GOD FOREVER. <—- which is OSAS.

He whom that IS saved, IS born again, HAS Gods Power IN him…requires a Warning to make sure “THEY” endure (keep believing while dodging evil spirits and wicked men (BY THEIR own POWER) to the end of their natural life? No.

The warnings are to BELIEVERS.
Believers CAN Fall away From Believing.

The Believers WHO ALSO confess their Belief….are seal unto God ONLY. THEY ARE kept by Gods POWER IN THEM.
What warning do they require, when they CAN NOT FALL AWAY FROM BELIEF? ZIP.

Glory to God,
Taken
The church is not a building , its those who FOLLOW CHRIST , loving and embracing HIS WORDS .
loving and embracing the teachings that later the apostels WROTE TO BELEIVERS .
Lets keep that in mind the next time some man or some woman or even a speaking donkey
says , OH those words either no longer apply to us or , OH they didnt apply to BELIEVERS . CAUSE THEY DO and THEY DID
apply to BELIEVERS . Be encouraged . GODS POWER KEEPS US , what GODS POWER DONT DO
is try and find ways around WHAT GOD INSPIRED . remember that as well the next time some OSAS teacher
gets up and tries to explain away the simple warnings and reminders . LAMBS DONT FOLLOW MEN , THEY FOLLOW GOD
THEY FOLLOW CHRIST . HOPE that encourages you my dear friend .
 
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Hillsage

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The devil told Adam and Eve that if they sinned against God, they would not die spiritually.
God
told Adam and Eve if they sinned (disobey Him) they would die spiritually.
Not scriptural. Not one verse proving either sentence. The devil did not mention "spirit" ANYTHING, and neither did GOD.

If I'm wrong quote a scripture proving me wrong. Don't give me indoctrinated theology.
Romans 8:13
if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


Today the OSAS peoples are saying the same thing the devil said which is... you can sin against God and not die spiritually in spite of what the New Testament says...
You are a triune being do you even acknowledge that? If you don't then you better start defending your belief system with that jpoint.

That's satan's message to the masses... so the OSAS peoples are speaking in behalf of the devil.
OSAS CALVINISTS are just as much HALF wrong as your ARMENIAN side is.

It's not a matter of God changing His mind... it's the matter of the Lord having created mankind in His Image which means man has free will... and the fact the God built His entire Kingdom on the seedtime and harvest principle. (Gal 6:7,8)
And "GOD IS SPIRIT." And the only part of His "image" that was even a part of Adam was 'A spirit' from God.....PERIOD!
AGREE or not?
God is just and cannot lie... so if you sow to the flesh you shall of the flesh reap corruption... unless you repent and turn away from your sin asking the Lord for forgiveness. He put that in the New Covenant because of His mercy and grace because He knew all of us would not be perfect after being born again.
You are not GOD. And I'm not saying you're lying either. You are just uninformed.
These are all basic foundational truths the OSAS people cannot understand due to having rejected the whole counsel of God. They have no idea that God replicated Himself when He created man.
And you ARMENIANS don't understand the truths OSAS doctrinal position have either.
Is ARMENIAN a term you accept yourself as being called? If not, then what are you? I'm not wanting to offend.
Even if you don't live in sin... the OSAS peoples are telling others that they cannot lose their salvation and that is sinful because it's not biblical and it causes others to go to hell.
Them believing in error just like you is not sin, it is simply being ignorant as to "the whole counsel of God" which your side is missing too. Don't sent a bunch of diatribe back please. How about we plumb the depths you think you understand. Just keep your response to answering the green questions.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Not scriptural.

Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


You should get a bible that.... has the Book of Genesis in it!
laughing2.gif
 
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Taken

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The church is not a building , its those who FOLLOW CHRIST , loving and embracing HIS WORDS .
loving and embracing the teachings that later the apostels WROTE TO BELEIVERS .
Lets keep that in mind the next time some man or some woman or even a speaking donkey
says , OH those words either no longer apply to us or , OH they didnt apply to BELIEVERS . CAUSE THEY DO and THEY DID
apply to BELIEVERS . Be encouraged . GODS POWER KEEPS US , what GODS POWER DONT DO
is try and find ways around WHAT GOD INSPIRED . remember that as well the next time some OSAS teacher
gets up and tries to explain away the simple warnings and reminders . LAMBS DONT FOLLOW MEN , THEY FOLLOW GOD
THEY FOLLOW CHRIST . HOPE that encourages you my dear friend .

I believe a great number of people believe, the building they attend, they call a church, is their church.

I believe people are not members of Christ’s church merely because they believe.
I believe members of Christ’s Church ARE born again believers, because;
Only once someone is born again does Gods Spirit enter and dwell IN that person.
Many people can Believe, yet never have the spirit of God within them while still alive in their flesh.
Many people can Believe, then stop believing.
A believer can doubt, deny, Christ Jesus…
Remember Philip doubting?
Remember Peter denying?
They Believed, yet had not become Baptized with the Holy Spirit and received their salvation.
Once they were Baptized with the Holy Spirit, then they became the first members of Christ’s Church, never again able to Stand Against the Lord God.
Never heard a person say, “they used to be a believer ? They were (water) baptized? They were a member of (a man-made building) church”?
Not at all do I believe they “were” a member of Christ’s Church, having RECEIVED the Holy Spirit Baptism of God.

Using A Scriptural analogy…

Believing is TASTING, they can spit it out.
Believing AND Heartfully Confessing their Belief is EATING, they can not spit it out.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Hillsage

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Genesis 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Genesis 3:4
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


You should get a bible that.... has the Book of Genesis in it!
View attachment 37280
You just exceeded how spiritually bound you are.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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You just exceeded how spiritually bound you are.

That's similar to what the devil was telling Adam and Eve in the garden of eden.... right before they agreed with him and sinned against God.

We can do this... I'll take God at His Word knowing He cannot lie and what He says is Truth

And you can ask the universe, or whoever it is you are following, to give you visions and experiences and goose bumps

And in the end we'll see who ends up where! thumbsup4.gif
 
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