Helen
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- Oct 22, 2011
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Legalism
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Neither of those things makes one righteous before God. Here is what makes a sinner righteous before God:
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:5)
And that is why the Bible says that we are saved or justified BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. To be justified means to be declared righteous by God. But you do not believe this fundamental Gospel truth!
There is no such thing as a "grace legalist". That is just more baloney from one who rejects the fundamental doctrine of justification.
Legalism -- according to the Bible -- is seeking to become righteous in the eyes of God through the works of the Law (the Torah).
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone... (Rom 9:31,32)
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Gal 2:15,16)
The Jews are Legalist, but Christ Jesus Grace is not Legalist.
One can not push Grace.
One can push Legalist point of views like the Jews did and Nazis, Communism and Political Correctness in fact all such does come from such Legalistic dribble.
Only people who do not understand Grace will peddle religion on others, I get this type all the time demanding that they are right because their Church says what ever, so they just go out peddling what their Church is peddling and 9 times out of 10 say when I point out that I know where they are coming from and try to explain my point of view on that subject, they will just jump up offended and start dictating to me. problem is that they do not truly know the subject in depth and are only indoctrinated on a subject.
I have a mate up the road who is very much a Nazi type dictating to me about Christianity, so the problem is that he only wants to dictate to me and never really will sit back and listen to what I have to say and a lot of the time he has some spin on a subject that is coming from another angle and this can be easy misconstrued, until you truly understand what he means by such he is saying and It does not help that he always has a unhealthy mental problem of always trying to catch you out or is saying something that is not on the same page, but one as to be carful that what he is saying is on the same page, because one can agree but the fact is it's not truly the same in fact, so now that I know what he means by the words he claims then I know better where he is coming from, not to mention he is also coming from being indoctrinated on a subject and does not have a handle on the subject mater as to why, because he does not have Grace, so he will not get a true handle on the subject from the Holy Spirit but only from a works of mans point of view, now he says he is against mans works etc but in fact he is only of mans works that he is truly on about in fact and that's why he peddles a dead Jesus. done finished works, it's a done deal BS it's only all about a done deal and is pushing another Jesus.
The problem with my mate is that he is so wound up with the new age Rapture con job that this is the major desire that he is commit's to. that he has tossed Jesus out with the bath water, such people think that Jesus is not alive and this is because they are not truly born again, they pray for another Jesus
. because they do not know Jesus Christ.
Sadly they have doctrines of demons leading them astray and their church leaders are Satanist, I can not remember how many times he has pleaded to me to go look up some past Satanist who has not come to peddle the New age Rapture dribble, I am not interested in any Satanist who now claims to be Christian because anyone who would delve into such in the first place is not worthy to listen to anyway.
Jesus Christ is alive and we who know him abide in him only and as he said he will be with us always, and he is ! he has never abandoned us ever. He is the Holy Spirit ! and no one comes to the Father but through him.
So who is this other Jesus ? that they are peddling. a legalist ?
. because they do not know Jesus Christ.Sadly they have doctrines of demons leading them astray and their church leaders are Satanist, I can not remember how many times he has pleaded to me to go look up some past Satanist who has not come to peddle the New age Rapture dribble, I am not interested in any Satanist who now claims to be Christian because anyone who would delve into such in the first place is not worthy to listen to anyway.
Jesus Christ is alive and we who know him abide in him only and as he said he will be with us always, and he is ! he has never abandoned us ever. He is the Holy Spirit ! and no one comes to the Father but through him.
So who is this other Jesus ? that they are peddling. a legalist ?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
That is the current one. New covenant to the houses of Judah and Israel is still future.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Legalism?
This word is completely misused and misunderstood.
First of all it is not found in the Bible. This is a made up term by man. A legalist is someone who strictly adheres to law. Anybody who is a Christian must be a legalist. Why? Because Christ has a law. Can you steal today? Can you live in adultery today? Can you covet today?
Christ says you must confess Mt 10:32,
He says you must repent, Lk 13:3,
He says you must believe and be baptized to be saved Mk 16:16.
He says you must be born again Jn 3:5
Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14 that the things he wrote were the commandments of the Lord. So, yes Christ has a law that we are to adhere to.
2 Jn 9 tells us that unless we abide in the doctrine of Christ we are not his.
Paul tells us...
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
We are to strictly adhere to an uncorrupted doctrine.
(Why is debate good? To highlight corrupted doctrine).
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
I read people on here saying that Biblical doctrine is not important. I know from that statement they have been corrupted. Just read 1 and 2 Timothy if you don’t think doctrine is important. Those are the people that usually throw out the label “legalist”, mainly because they just don’t like what the Bible says.
Do you think Joyce Meyer would label me a “legalist” when I say she has no authority to be a “pastor” /preacher. The “doctrine” says she has no authority to do that. Do we need to adhere to that or not? I guess you can just call me a “legalist”.
This word is completely misused and misunderstood.
First of all it is not found in the Bible. This is a made up term by man. A legalist is someone who strictly adheres to law. Anybody who is a Christian must be a legalist. Why? Because Christ has a law. Can you steal today? Can you live in adultery today? Can you covet today?
Christ says you must confess Mt 10:32,
He says you must repent, Lk 13:3,
He says you must believe and be baptized to be saved Mk 16:16.
He says you must be born again Jn 3:5
Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14 that the things he wrote were the commandments of the Lord. So, yes Christ has a law that we are to adhere to.
2 Jn 9 tells us that unless we abide in the doctrine of Christ we are not his.
Paul tells us...
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
We are to strictly adhere to an uncorrupted doctrine.
(Why is debate good? To highlight corrupted doctrine).
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
I read people on here saying that Biblical doctrine is not important. I know from that statement they have been corrupted. Just read 1 and 2 Timothy if you don’t think doctrine is important. Those are the people that usually throw out the label “legalist”, mainly because they just don’t like what the Bible says.
Do you think Joyce Meyer would label me a “legalist” when I say she has no authority to be a “pastor” /preacher. The “doctrine” says she has no authority to do that. Do we need to adhere to that or not? I guess you can just call me a “legalist”.
A legalist is one who pushes the letter of the law without regard to the spirit of the law. This is not to be confused with a law-abider who is in favour of the law and wants to obey it.
Is Joyce Meyer not permitted to teach because she is a woman? Well, she can teach other women. She is allowed to exercise whatever gifts she has potentially received from the Lord. Although I don't think she is a competent teacher. But then most or all popular people are not competent teachers. If they were competent they wouldn't be so popular. ;)
But people respect other people...whereas God does not. The truth does not respect people. God does not look for popular people or even people who become popular. Jesus Christ is looking for obscure vessels to present the eternal glories of God...away from the limelight.
People always look for teachers to make things easy for them. It's something to do with having itching ears!
A legalist is someone who tries to follow the laws of God but in his own strength. A spiritual person fulfills the law without recourse to preaching the law.
Are we to push law or Christ?
Teaching law is for carnal men. Preaching Christ is for they who understand that walking in Christ fulfills the law. So then a legalist leaves Christ out of the equation. There are many who do that.
So then what is our priority...to see that laws are obeyed? Or to see that people are reconciled with God so that as a side benefit...the law is obeyed?
give me an example of your following statements...
“pushes the letter of the law without regard to the spirit of the law”
And also..
“So then a legalist leaves Christ out of the equation”
Here’s another thought.
I was just asked....are we to push law or Christ as if they are mutually exclusive.
So, are LAW and CHRIST mutually exclusive? Can you have Christ without law? I say no you can’t. Heb 5:9 tells us that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY him. Well, what do we have to obey? Is it not the law he has given us? What instructions in Christ’s law are we able to disregard and still be considered obedient?
1 Timothy 6:3-4 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
We are to adhere to the words of our lord Jesus Christ. What are his words? They are law.
Jesus specifically said...
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. If we want to be saved then we must consent to these wholesome words and realize that salvation does not come before baptism. But 90% or more on this board will say I’m wrong and call me a legalist when all I did was present to you the wholesome words (law) of Christ doctrine.
I was just asked....are we to push law or Christ as if they are mutually exclusive.
So, are LAW and CHRIST mutually exclusive? Can you have Christ without law? I say no you can’t. Heb 5:9 tells us that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY him. Well, what do we have to obey? Is it not the law he has given us? What instructions in Christ’s law are we able to disregard and still be considered obedient?
1 Timothy 6:3-4 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
We are to adhere to the words of our lord Jesus Christ. What are his words? They are law.
Jesus specifically said...
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved. If we want to be saved then we must consent to these wholesome words and realize that salvation does not come before baptism. But 90% or more on this board will say I’m wrong and call me a legalist when all I did was present to you the wholesome words (law) of Christ doctrine.
2 Corinthians 3:6
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
The law failed mankind because it presented a standard that men could not fulfill. The law made nothing perfect. (that is a bible verse)
Jesus didn't preach the law...but the kingdom of God...a place of refuge for men to walk in His perfection. The law is fulfilled when we walk according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:4
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So then by the Spirit we preach the Spirit...and by the law we preach the law.
A Christian is to walk beyond the law...in the Spirit..not walking in the power of men...but in the power and presence of God.
PREACHING law and Christ are indeed mutually exclusive. Most people can't understand 2 concepts at the same time.
when I preach of the perfection IN Christ...many people think I'm talking about me. So these can't even track ONE subject...Christ.
When we preach Christ...we are speaking far above most peoples...even Christians experience.
If we preach law, we short-circuit Christ to get people to try obeying laws.
But IN Christ all the laws are fulfilled...so we preach Christ...which does BOTH! When you try obeying the law you find that you can't.
If a person understands who Jesus is and what His kingdom is...then they understand very easily why it is wrong to preach law when Christ is available to us all. Christ fulfills the law. Enter into HIM!
2 Cor 3:6 is contrasting the old law with the new. It does not say we are no longer under a law. It even said they were Abel ministers of the “New Covenant”, not of the letter. The “letter” referring to the mosaic law. If you don’t believe me then read vs 7. So, yes, we today are not under the “letter” or old law. We are under the law Christ has given which is the New Covenant.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
The law has been changed. We are still under law today.
How does one “walk after the Spirit”? It is to live ones life in accordance with the directives given by the spirit, and we find that in scripture.
I am looking for present day examples to better describe the two statements you made above.
Who today...pushes the letter of the law today without the Spirit of the law?
Who today...leaves Christ out of the equation?
Are you saying that Christ....has no law? It’s just “Christ” and that’s it? Why aren’t all men saved? I would say most people on here would respond by saying....because they don’t believe in Christ. Well, where did they get that idea? Was it because Christ said...unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins?
Is that not a “law” Christ has given us to obey? And if so, did he stop at just that one law?
We have a "cheat sheet" in the bible. People can SAY they are in the Spirit but they are saying so because of an error in indoctrination so often. If people didn't see the word Spirit in their bibles...they would have no idea what the concept even meant...which of course they still don't even while saying the word.
We can be LED by the Spirit and yet still be walking in the power of the flesh.
Walking in the Spirit is something very specific...to walk in the power of Christ...without any sin or stain of sin. The blood of Jesus is the life of Jesus we walk in by the Spirit.
Are you saying that Christ....has no law? It’s just “Christ” and that’s it? Why aren’t all men saved? I would say most people on here would respond by saying....because they don’t believe in Christ. Well, where did they get that idea? Was it because Christ said...unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins?
Is that not a “law” Christ has given us to obey? And if so, did he stop at just that one law?
One must be careful what one sees as a law. Jesus told certain people to do certain things. Jesus said to cast their nets on the other side of the boat (to his disciples). Is that a law for all? Paul said all would be saved if they remained in the ship. Is that a law for all? Are you remaining in a ship to be saved?
The one new law Jesus gave was to love as He loved...by giving up our lives. But who wants to obey Jesus? People just want what they can get from Him...not be like Him.
Yes, if you didn’t read about the Spirit in the Bible today, you would not even know there is one.
You determine by context. That is plain to see. Just as we are not to build an ark just because Noah was told to.
Jesus said.. preach the gospel to every creature, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he believeth not shall be damned. Is that a law? Yes or no and is it not for every creature?
I would agree with that.
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