Keeping Sabbath not in effect

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Colossians 2:13-17 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days'

Colossians 2:13-17 does not have the word or meaning of, <meat> nor of <drink> nor of <an holyday> nor of <the new moon> nor of <in respect of the sabbath>. Your whole 'quote' is a corruption.

Here is the correct rendering, ""Do not you THEREFORE let yourselves be judged by anybody with regard to your eating and drinking of a feast of yours whether of month's or of Sabbaths"
"Do not you let yourselves be judged" : 'meh hymahs krinetoh'
"therefore" : 'oun'
"by anybody" : 'tis'
"with regard to" : 'en .... en .... en merei'
"your eating and drinking" : 'brohsei kai posei'
"whether (with regard to) : '(en merei) eh'
"(either) of a feast (of yours)" : 'eh heortehs'
"(either) of (a) month's" : "eh neomehnias'
"or of Sabbaths'" : 'eh sabbatohn'
"which is/are" - 'ha estin' ......."

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Before his conversion to Christianity paul would have kept the Sabbath days. Paul as a Christian preached the gospel to the lost on Sabbath days but Paul as a Christian never kept the Sabbath day as a religious ordinance of God.

WHAT is it <to keep the Sabbath day as a religious ordinance of God> IF NOT to <preach the gospel to the lost on Sabbath days> verdomp!!!!

 

[shnarkle]

Paul says the law is "established". He makes no claims to doing away with the law at all. He quite clearly refers to the law "that was added because of transgressions", not the law that was transgressed itself. Big difference. Even then he's only referring to those who no longer "fulfill the lust of the flesh". The law is in effect as long as a man lives. You must be dead if the law no longer applies to you.

The word "respect" literally means "taking part, participation". He says let no man judge you, but the body of Christ which is the church which kept the Sabbath.

Paul refers to the "handwriting of ordinances which were against us" which is a direct reference to Deuteronomy 31:26. Read it and note the difference between the STONE tablets that were placed INSIDE the Ark verses the SCROLL that was placed BESIDE the Ark. Christ points out that the Sabbath was made "FOR" man, while your quote from Paul refers to the law that was "AGAINST" us.

You're quite simply grasping at straws. It takes a serious reading comprehension problem to miss something this obvious. That, or a good brainwashed deception.

The curse of the law is not the obligation of the law. Doing away with the penalty of the law doesn't do away with the obligation of the law. Just because no one is justified by the law doesn't mean they no longer keep the law.

The purpose of the law was never to justify anyone, therefore doing away with a false purpose of the law doesn't do away with its actual purpose.

To say the Sabbath isn't mentioned in the new testament is patently false. Not only do we see Paul and others keeping the Sabbath, we see his letter to Timothy pointing out the need to refrain from "profane" behavior. You can't seem to refrain from engaging in one logical fallacy after another.

 

[shnarkle]

Chiau

As they say in the Staples commercials, "That was easy". No doubt we can all take that as your version of a retraction of your baseless claims.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Referring to...
<<Paul refers to the "handwriting of ordinances which were against us" which is a direct reference to Deuteronomy 31:26. Read it and note the difference between the STONE tablets that were placed INSIDE the Ark verses the SCROLL that was placed BESIDE the Ark. Christ points out that the Sabbath was made "FOR" man, while your quote from Paul refers to the law that was "AGAINST" us.>>
....
The <STONE tablets that were placed INSIDE the Ark> were written "in this Book of the Law" which "Book" then the LORD commanded Moses to "put in the side of the ark of the covenant that it may be there -INSIDE NEXT TO THE STONE TABLES IN the ark, for a witness AGAINST thee"--, "THERE" as a prophetic <reference> to the body of Jesus BURIED in the "ark" - "coffin" of the GRAVE "as a witness AGAINST you" all sinners who all assaulted the Living UNBLEMISHED Lamb of God, who all FAILED to inflict Him harm or unrighteous spot or wrinkle, so that "IN DEATH" not even "HIS FLESH, SAW CORRUPTION", but so that they, all sinners, now must face HIM the RESURRECTED, Lord and JUDGE of their DESERVED, eternal fate. Fear the LORD, the Lord Jesus, LAW-OF-GOD!

 

[shnarkle]

....
The <STONE tablets that were placed INSIDE the Ark> were written "in this Book of the Law"

Sorry, but no. That's patently false. STONE TABLETS are not "BOOKS", or "SCROLLS". "The Sabbath was made FOR man...", not AGAINST man. You're not only conflating STONES with SCROLLS, but completely different prepositions. You're conflating laws that are for man when kept with laws that were added to deal with transgressions of those laws, e.g. the sacrificial system. There is no need to offer a sin offering if you haven't committed a sin. This isn't complicated, and pretending that sin can exist without a law to transgress in the first place is patently false. Therefore the law must exist before one can transgress it. Therefore a law is added to deal with those transgressions, and that is what is done away with.

When there is a law, and another law is ADDED; when that law is done away with, it doesn't then follow that the original law is also done away with as well. When the law that was added is taken away, we still have the law it was added to.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Referring to...
<<Sorry, but no. That's patently false. STONE TABLETS are not "BOOKS", or "SCROLLS". "The Sabbath was made FOR man...", not AGAINST man. You're not only conflating STONES with SCROLLS, but completely different prepositions. You're conflating laws that are for man when kept with laws that were added to deal with transgressions of those laws, e.g. the sacrificial system. There is no need to offer a sin offering if you haven't committed a sin. This isn't complicated, and pretending that sin can exist without a law to transgress in the first place is patently false. Therefore the law must exist before one can transgress it. Therefore a law is added to deal with those transgressions, and that is what is done away with.

When there is a law, and another law is ADDED; when that law is done away with, it doesn't then follow that the original law is also done away with as well. When the law that was added is taken away, we still have the law it was added to.>>

Someone is talking to and differing and fighting with HIMSELF.

Re: <<Therefore a law is added to deal with those transgressions, and that is what is done away with.>> That Law was Christ; He was it who was “against us”; and HIM it was therefore whom we “nailed to the cross and took out of the way”, who thus dealt with OUR transgressions.

 

[shnarkle]

Someone is talking to and differing and fighting with HIMSELF.

Given that you are repeatedly ignoring my posts, only to post more vague word salad, it would seem that "someone" is you.

That Law was Christ; He was it who was “against us”;

No. Paul explicitly states that it was those laws contained in ordinances against transgressions which were nailed to the cross. Again, there are no laws against keeping God's laws. Christ is against those who continue to sin as they crucify him all over again.

and HIM it was therefore whom we “nailed to the cross and took out of the way”, who thus dealt with OUR transgressions.

You don't seem to be able to pay attention to who is doing what. At no time does Paul ever say that we nailed the law that was against us to the cross.

Given that you are either using a completely different bible, or simply ignoring what the texts actually state:

Given that you have also made baseless accusations against me, and never once bothered to substantiate any of them:

Given that most of your posts are so convoluted as to be completely incoherent and pointless:

There is no point in pursuing a discussion when we can't even agree on the fundamental facts stated in the texts. It's well past the time to add you to the list of those who have already been unceremoniously "ignore"'d

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

No. Paul explicitly states that it was those laws contained in ordinances against transgressions which were nailed to the cross. Again, there are no laws against keeping God's laws. Christ is against those who continue to sin as they crucify him all over again.

And you don't sin!

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 7 shows that the law was changed (7.12).

What we now have is better than the law (7.19).

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Paul explicitly states that it was those those laws contained in ordinances against transgressions which were nailed to the cross.

The Ten Commandments WERE "those laws contained in ordinances against transgressions" what else do you think they were? Praises to men like you who keep them?

 

[shnarkle]

Hebrews 7 shows that the law was changed (7.12).

What we now have is better than the law (7.19).

I don't understand your references.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

At no time does Paul ever say that we nailed the law that was against us to the cross.

YOU quote Paul where he says exactly it and nothing else. Now do you see stone blocks nailed to the cross or do you see Jesus Christ nailed to the cross? The Law was Christ and IS Christ Jesus forevermore "The WORD" that "in the beginning was", who Suffered, was Crucified and Died, who was Buried and who "according to the Scriptures ... not shnarkle whatever whoever ... ROSE FROM THE DEAD TO RULE AS LAW, the WORD-OF-RULE-LAW, OF GOD, IN PERSON of, "GOD WITH US", THE SON.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Given that you are repeatedly ignoring my posts, only to post more vague word salad, it would seem that "someone" is you.



No. Paul explicitly states that it was those laws contained in ordinances against transgressions which were nailed to the cross. Again, there are no laws against keeping God's laws. Christ is against those who continue to sin as they crucify him all over again.



You don't seem to be able to pay attention to who is doing what. At no time does Paul ever say that we nailed the law that was against us to the cross.

Given that you are either using a completely different bible, or simply ignoring what the texts actually state:

Given that you have also made baseless accusations against me, and never once bothered to substantiate any of them:

Given that most of your posts are so convoluted as to be completely incoherent and pointless:

There is no point in pursuing a discussion when we can't even agree on the fundamental facts stated in the texts. It's well past the time to add you to the list of those who have already been unceremoniously "ignore"'d

... very pretty ... tralalalala

 

[CharismaticLady]

Therefore a law is added to deal with those transgressions, and that is what is done away with.

Not clear what you are referring to being "done away with." The law or transgressions? What is it that Christ takes away? Why does Paul say we are not under the law?

 

[farouk]

Not clear what you are referring to being "done away with." The law or transgressions? What is it that Christ takes away? Why does Paul say we are not under the law?

Hebrews 7.12 says the law was changed (because the priesthood was changed).

 

[shnarkle]

Not clear what you are referring to being "done away with." The law or transgressions? What is it that Christ takes away? Why does Paul say we are not under the law?

For the longest time I couldn't figure out what Paul was talking about either, but when looked at in context, it seems quite clear that he's referring to those laws that "were added because of transgressions", but the catch is that he's only referring to those who "no longer fulfill the lust of the flesh". So what he's saying is that for those who don't sin, there's on need for those laws dealing with transgressions of the law.

The problem is when we assume he's talking about those of us who still sin. if we still sin, then we're still "under the law to Christ". We still have to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover our sins. Those who have been conformed to Christ don't sin and "there is no more sacrifice for sin" (Heb.10:26)

 

[CharismaticLady]

For the longest time I couldn't figure out what Paul was talking about either, but when looked at in context, it seems quite clear that he's referring to those laws that "were added because of transgressions", but the catch is that he's only referring to those who "no longer fulfill the lust of the flesh". So what he's saying is that for those who don't sin, there's on need for those laws dealing with transgressions of the law.

The problem is when we assume he's talking about those of us who still sin. if we still sin, then we're still "under the law to Christ". We still have to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover our sins. Those who have been conformed to Christ don't sin and "there is no more sacrifice for sin" (Heb.10:26)

I like to highlight in the style of contrasts of the Semitic writing style. The first time I did that verse 20 became clear it was of the dark side. Before that I wasn't sure what John was saying. Many should do this to chapter one because the whole church seems to believe Christians are sinners and not children of God.

1 John 1:5-10; 2:1-
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

2:1-My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.


12 I write to you, little children,
Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I write to you, young men,
Because you have overcome the wicked one.
I write to you, little children,
Because you have known the Father.
14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.



John 8:34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:1-24
3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love his brother abides in death. 15 Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

16 By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 17 But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Not clear what you are referring to being "done away with." The law or transgressions? What is it that Christ takes away? Why does Paul say we are not under the law?

This Scripture does not say <<that Christ takes away>> anything, yet of course it implies and means, that Christ took away sins. But this Scripture records about US, who "nailed to the cross" and "took out of the way" HIM who took away our sins.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

For the longest time I couldn't figure out what Paul was talking about either, but when looked at in context, it seems quite clear that he's referring to those laws that "were added because of transgressions", but the catch is that he's only referring to those who "no longer fulfill the lust of the flesh". So what he's saying is that for those who don't sin, there's on need for those laws dealing with transgressions of the law.

The problem is when we assume he's talking about those of us who still sin. if we still sin, then we're still "under the law to Christ". We still have to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover our sins. Those who have been conformed to Christ don't sin and "there is no more sacrifice for sin" (Heb.10:26)

So, again, you're not a sinner, I see .....

Schnarkle, I noticed you got a new soul's mate - refer #58!