Justified by Works

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GodsGrace

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Can you kindly let me know what you don't agree with re the doctrines and dogmas?
I think the last time I've checked there are now over 45, 000 denominations?
Hence me sitting at home and do my studies from here.

Non devi rispondermi, sorella, ma ti consiglierei di restare forte in Gesù Cristo.

J.
J, I meant that I don't agree with some Catholic doctrine (teaching) and some dogma...dogma must be agreed to or one cannot consider themselves to be Catholic.

As to the different denominations,,,,right. There are too many. This is a problem I have with Protestantism...everyone seems to be able to make up their own doctrine, their own belief system. How could this possibly work in keeping a community cohesive? It can't and we will be separated and devoured. Divide and conquer. The evil one must be very happy about how we don't agree on doctrine.

So for the CC I can't agree with purgatory, confession has me a bit confused, mortal sins, I agree with justification but they explain it in a really confusing way, the assumption of Mary (it might very well be true, but I can't accept it) - I think that's enough!

Re Protestantism....I think the reformed faith is an affront to God's love, mercy and justice.
Some will say works are not necessary when that's all Jesus taught.
Some say we can be saved no matter what...OSAS.
Some believe in the rapture, some don't.
Need I go on?
Churches split for the smallest nuance in understanding some scripture or other.
Some believe hell doesn't even exist,
some believe in annihalation,
some in universalism.
Some call themselves Christian but don't believe Jesus is God.

It makes my head spin.

I like to learn what Jesus taught...it's simple and to the point.

What denominations are prevalent by you?
 

GodsGrace

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In the church of my youth, the minister revelled in attacking the catholic church(it was pentecostal) So, I grew up wondering if catholics could even be saved. A few years later I ended up living in a predominantly catholic community for a while. I saw more love in that commnuity for the poor, downtrodden, and those who had many issues in their lives than I ever had in the churches I had been to. Wish I'd stayed there now.
I know denominations/churches that do this.
Why I wonder.
Every church teaches something or other that we could not agree with,
but aren't we all brothers in Christ?

We have a denomination that totally changes the character of God but we never hear of that denomination.
It seems to always be the CC that is attacked.

If I hear something wrong being said about the CC I WILL try to correct the poster.
If I hear something wrong being said about the Protestant beliefs, i WILL try to correct the poster.
I know both so I guess I'm in the middle.

I will say that Protestants attack the CC, but I don't see this happening in the CC.
They just read the scripture, make their comments, and that's it.
No need to hate anyone.

You're where you are Uncle Silas.
Make the best of it.
 

GodsGrace

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"cut of Mary" or "cult of the Virgin".. was the original title of what later became the "Catholic" Church.

A "church father'... created this TITLE......."cult of Mary". (Cult of the Virgin).

You thought i did, but this came from your Church.

Was first called the cult of Mary, at Ephesus...........About the middle of AD400.


You should do some research on that title(s), and that would be the beginning of quite a journey for you.

You should supplement that with ......""the Marian theology of key Apostolic Fathers who lived between 100-200 AD.""""

You should do a research into the "Gospel of James" as this one is filled with "Marian" emphasis, that was coveted and used by early Catholic (Cult of Mary) Church Fathers, that developed the "Status of Mary", farther and farther along.

You should find out what happened to the Temple of Diana in Ephesus... what it became.

You should find out why the "Goddess Diana" is referred to as the '"queen of heaven, and a "perpetual virgin"... before this became "Cult of the Virgin" theology.

This book would be of interest to you.., but, not until you really want to know the Truth.
-
View attachment 50141
"cut of Mary" or "cult of the Virgin".. was the original title of what later became the "Catholic" Church.

A "church father'... created this TITLE......."cult of Mary". (Cult of the Virgin).

You thought i did, but this came from your Church.

Was first called the cult of Mary, at Ephesus...........About the middle of AD400.


You should do some research on that title(s), and that would be the beginning of quite a journey for you.

You should supplement that with ......""the Marian theology of key Apostolic Fathers who lived between 100-200 AD.""""

You should do a research into the "Gospel of James" as this one is filled with "Marian" emphasis, that was coveted and used by early Catholic (Cult of Mary) Church Fathers, that developed the "Status of Mary", farther and farther along.

You should find out what happened to the Temple of Diana in Ephesus... what it became.

You should find out why the "Goddess Diana" is referred to as the '"queen of heaven, and a "perpetual virgin"... before this became "Cult of the Virgin" theology.

This book would be of interest to you.., but, not until you really want to know the Truth.
-
View attachment 50141
I couldn't care less where the CULT OF MARY title began.
And I don't have a church.
If I ever get one, I'll let you know....for now I just attend churches.

I think I know why Mary is important.
Do YOU know why?

Maybe because she's the Mother of the Lord you claim to follow?
Maybe because God chose HER to be the mother of His Son?
Does this mean nothing to you?

Catholics don't worship Mary....maybe they give a bit too much attention to her.
But WE don't give her enough...
You should respect her more and love her more.
Jesus did, and you claim to follow Him...so follow Him in loving His mother too.

And that's all I'll be saying about this since it's way off topic.
 
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uncle silas

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I know denominations/churches that do this.
Why I wonder.
Every church teaches something or other that we could not agree with,
but aren't we all brothers in Christ?

We have a denomination that totally changes the character of God but we never hear of that denomination.
It seems to always be the CC that is attacked.

If I hear something wrong being said about the CC I WILL try to correct the poster.
If I hear something wrong being said about the Protestant beliefs, i WILL try to correct the poster.
I know both so I guess I'm in the middle.

I will say that Protestants attack the CC, but I don't see this happening in the CC.
They just read the scripture, make their comments, and that's it.
No need to hate anyone.

You're where you are Uncle Silas.
Make the best of it.
In the first century church, they accepted as believers, people who said the gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey all of Torah.(Acts15:5)
Paul was part of that church too, and he was vehemently against Gentiles having to be circumcised and follow all of Torah. I guess they just united around the core beliefs of Christianity.
So, it was a very broad church indeed. Sadly, we've come a long way since those days
 
J

Johann

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J, I meant that I don't agree with some Catholic doctrine (teaching) and some dogma...dogma must be agreed to or one cannot consider themselves to be Catholic.

As to the different denominations,,,,right. There are too many. This is a problem I have with Protestantism...everyone seems to be able to make up their own doctrine, their own belief system. How could this possibly work in keeping a community cohesive? It can't and we will be separated and devoured. Divide and conquer. The evil one must be very happy about how we don't agree on doctrine.

So for the CC I can't agree with purgatory, confession has me a bit confused, mortal sins, I agree with justification but they explain it in a really confusing way, the assumption of Mary (it might very well be true, but I can't accept it) - I think that's enough!

Re Protestantism....I think the reformed faith is an affront to God's love, mercy and justice.
Some will say works are not necessary when that's all Jesus taught.
Some say we can be saved no matter what...OSAS.
Some believe in the rapture, some don't.
Need I go on?
Churches split for the smallest nuance in understanding some scripture or other.
Some believe hell doesn't even exist,
some believe in annihalation,
some in universalism.
Some call themselves Christian but don't believe Jesus is God.

It makes my head spin.

I like to learn what Jesus taught...it's simple and to the point.

What denominations are prevalent by you?
Protestantism, Pentecostals and Reformed Churches. Calvinism and Lutheran as well. And NO outreach ministries-Nada, zip, none.
I'm afraid here it is all about talk the walk but no walk the talk, as my Messianic brother used to say: "Up with the sleeves, down with the ease!" [Practical application of the Scriptures Imperative]

One question-have you ever studied the Pauline epistles for yourself? I mean, really study?
As to the rest, I concur wholeheartedly with you.

J.
 
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uncle silas

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I'm afraid here it is all about talk the walk but no walk the talk, as my Messianic brother used to say: "Up with the sleeves, down with the ease!" [Practical application of the Scriptures Imperative]

One question-have you ever studied the Pauline epistles for yourself? I mean, really study?
As to the rest, I concur wholeheartedly with you.

J.
I agree with your first paragraph, and I would be classed as a protestant!
Concerning the Pauline epistles.
On another website, a catholic once said he'd often heard it stated Catholics were more at ease with the Gospels, and protestants Paul's letters. I think I saw where he was coming from
 
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Johann

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I agree with your first paragraph, and I would be classed as a protestant!
Concerning the Pauline epistles.
On another website, a catholic once said he'd often heard it stated Catholics were more at ease with the Gospels, and protestants Paul's letters. I think I saw where he was coming from
I’m also a Protestant-always protesting!

I didn’t know that, @uncle silas, but I have noticed that those who deeply study the Scriptures, especially the Pauline epistles, tend to stay firm on the right path and aren’t easily swayed by false doctrines.

"Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature adulthood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be infants, tossed about by waves and carried around by every wind of teaching by the trickery of people, by craftiness with reference to the scheming of deceit."
Ephesians 4:13-14 (Lexham)

But it is a trickery slope, if you know what I mean.
J.
 
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GodsGrace

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Protestantism, Pentecostals and Reformed Churches. Calvinism and Lutheran as well. And NO outreach ministries-Nada, zip, none.
I'm afraid here it is all about talk the walk but no walk the talk, as my Messianic brother used to say: "Up with the sleeves, down with the ease!" [Practical application of the Scriptures Imperative]

One question-have you ever studied the Pauline epistles for yourself? I mean, really study?
As to the rest, I concur wholeheartedly with you.

J.
Depends on what you mean by REALLY studied.
I doubt I've studied the bible to the degree that you have.
Don't we all have to study for ourselves?
We could hear all the teaching and preaching we want to hear,,,,
but in the end, we have to be able to justify what we believe scripturally.
Do you think I don't do this?

I think Paul wrote some deep ideas....ideas that are not understood very well in our society/culture.
He wrote with the OT in mind, but the OT as understood by a Jew of those days,,,not as a Westerner of today.
I read on these forums ideas that are foreign to me and that I do not believe Paul meant to develop.

I read what a letter is about...the introduction.
I read each chapter and attempt to understand it on my own. If it refers to the OT, I also read that part of the OT.
If I don't understand something, I read it in different versions, including my Italian versions which really do help a lot because
the language is closer to the Greek and the expressions are different.
Sometimes I use a commentary.

I've also done some studying with 2 different denominations and also with the CC.
I teach catechism to children in the CC.
I have a close relationship with 3 priests and know a monk very well and have studied with him (in a group) for years.
One of the priests is a Catholic theologian that speaks 6 or 7 languages and has taught even in the middle east.
We used to discuss the NT passages that were interesting to me. He's getting a little older now and I don't do this anymore.

I think that says it all.
I'm not a scholar and couldn't really do better than this.
What say you?
 
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Johann

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Depends on what you mean by REALLY studied.
I doubt I've studied the bible to the degree that you have.
Don't we all have to study for ourselves?
We could hear all the teaching and preaching we want to hear,,,,
but in the end, we have to be able to justify what we believe scripturally.
Do you think I don't do this?

I think Paul wrote some deep ideas....ideas that are not understood very well in our society/culture.
He wrote with the OT in mind, but the OT as understood by a Jew of those days,,,not as a Westerner of today.
I read on these forums ideas that are foreign to me and that I do not believe Paul meant to develop.

I read what a letter is about...the introduction.
I read each chapter and attempt to understand it on my own. If it refers to the OT, I also read that part of the OT.
If I don't understand something, I read it in different versions, including my Italian versions which really do help a lot because
the language is closer to the Greek and the expressions are different.
Sometimes I use a commentary.

I've also done some studying with 2 different denominations and also with the CC.
I teach catechism to children in the CC.
I have a close relationship with 3 priests and know a monk very well and have studied with him (in a group) for years.
One of the priests is a Catholic theologian that speaks 6 or 7 languages and has taught even in the middle east.
We used to discuss the NT passages that were interesting to me. He's getting a little older now and I don't do this anymore.

I think that says it all.
I'm not a scholar and couldn't really do better than this.
What say you?
Heck sister!
No more questions your honor.

J.
 

uncle silas

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I’m also a Protestant-always protesting!

I didn’t know that, @uncle silas, but I have noticed that those who deeply study the Scriptures, especially the Pauline epistles, tend to stay firm on the right path and aren’t easily swayed by false doctrines.

"Until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature adulthood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be infants, tossed about by waves and carried around by every wind of teaching by the trickery of people, by craftiness with reference to the scheming of deceit."
Ephesians 4:13-14 (Lexham)

But it is a trickery slope, if you know what I mean.
J.
Here's a bit of Paul to get your teeth around, but firstly:
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Bearing the above in mind:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law/not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law/righteousnes of not committing sin, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

Therefore, to Paul, sin will not be your master, if you know sin cannot condemn you
 
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GracePeace

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Depends on what you mean by REALLY studied.
I doubt I've studied the bible to the degree that you have.
Don't we all have to study for ourselves?
We could hear all the teaching and preaching we want to hear,,,,
but in the end, we have to be able to justify what we believe scripturally.
Do you think I don't do this?

I think Paul wrote some deep ideas....ideas that are not understood very well in our society/culture.
He wrote with the OT in mind, but the OT as understood by a Jew of those days,,,not as a Westerner of today.
I read on these forums ideas that are foreign to me and that I do not believe Paul meant to develop.

I read what a letter is about...the introduction.
I read each chapter and attempt to understand it on my own. If it refers to the OT, I also read that part of the OT.
If I don't understand something, I read it in different versions, including my Italian versions which really do help a lot because
the language is closer to the Greek and the expressions are different.
Sometimes I use a commentary.

I've also done some studying with 2 different denominations and also with the CC.
I teach catechism to children in the CC.
I have a close relationship with 3 priests and know a monk very well and have studied with him (in a group) for years.
One of the priests is a Catholic theologian that speaks 6 or 7 languages and has taught even in the middle east.
We used to discuss the NT passages that were interesting to me. He's getting a little older now and I don't do this anymore.

I think that says it all.
I'm not a scholar and couldn't really do better than this.
What say you?
You teach catechism without being catholic lol
 

Behold

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Maybe because she's the Mother of the Lord you claim to follow?
Maybe because God chose HER to be the mother of His Son?
Does this mean nothing to you?

The reason you feel so protective of Mary, is because you have been taught to Think that way...

This come from Catholicism...


Do you own a bible?

Find out why any Bible you choose, never elevates Mary beyond this....>>>"Blessed among women"...

See, there is no BIBLE, that is accepted, no Gospel, that is considered "canon", that teaches anything that the "Culf of Mary", teaches regarding Mary.

Everything that the Catholic Cult teaches about Mary, other then "Mother of Jesus", and to call her "Mother of God", you have to accept that Jesus is God.
Fine by me.

The Bible does not teach that Mary is a Perpetual Virgin.
The Bible does not Teach that Mary is "co-author of Salvation"
The Bible does not Teach that Mary and Jesus are hand in Hand in Heaven, bringing in Souls.
The Bible does not Teach that Mary flew to heaven, after she died.
The Bible does not teach that Mary will come to you as you are dying..
There are no "Mary Feast Days", in a Bible.
There is no "rosary" in a Bible.
There is no "hail Mary" in a Bible.

There is not a verse, or a word spoken by any Apostle in a Bible that says that Mary was anything that is taught by the Catholic Cult, other than she was a virgin when she gave birth to God's Son.

The BIBLE does not teach what the "Cult of the Virgin" teaches, regarding Mary, and the fact that you dont know this, and dont care, is not the Bible's Fault....

So whose fault is it?
 

GodsGrace

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The reason you feel so protective of Mary, is because you have been taught to Think that way...

This come from Catholicism...


Do you own a bible?

Find out why any Bible you choose, never elevates Mary beyond this....>>>"Blessed among women"...

See, there is no BIBLE, that is accepted, no Gospel, that is considered "canon", that teaches anything that the "Culf of Mary", teach regarding Mary.

Everything that the Catholic Cult teaches about Mary, other then "Mother of Jesus", and to call her "Mother of God", you have to accept that Jesus is God.
Fine by me.

The Bible does not teach that Mary is a Perpetual Virgin.
The Bible does not Teach that Mary is "co-author of Salvation"
The Bible does not Teach that Mary and Jesus are hand in Hand in Heaven, bringing in Souls.
The Bible does not Teach that Mary flew to heaven, after she died.
There are no "Mary Feast Days", in a Bible.
There is no "rosary" in a Bible.

There is not a verse, or a word spoken by any Apostle in a Bible that says that Mary was anything that is taught by the Catholic Cult, other than she was a virgin when she gave birth.

The BIBLE does not teach what the "Cult of the Virgin" teaches, regarding Mary, and the fact that you dont know this, and dont care, is not the Bible's Fault....

So whose fault is it?
Why are you lecturing me about Mary?
I told you what I believe about her and that will be the end of that.

Just some comments:
No silly, I don't own a bible.
I go by memory.

I guess I'm just a brain washed dumb person.

Did you just state that for me to accept that Mary is the Mother of God I'd have to believe that Jesus is God?
Does this mean that you don't believe that Jesus is God?
I always thought you were a Christian person....

You don't know anything about the rosary.

The Apostolic Fathers had a lot to say about Mary.
Do you own the writings of the ECFs?

Try reading them sometime.
Oops. Sorry. They're not in the bible.

Please stop this conversation...
I won't respond further.
 
J

Johann

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Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Bearing the above in mind:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law/not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law/righteousnes of not committing sin, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14

Therefore, to Paul, sin will not be your master, if you know sin cannot condemn you
Something to ponder-right?

1 John 3:4 – Defining Sin in Relation to the Law
1 John 3:4 (Lexham Translation):
"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."

The word used here for "lawlessness" is ἀνομία (anomia), which literally means being "without law" or "in violation of the law." This passage defines sin as a direct violation of God's moral law. In Hebrew thought, the Torah (תּוֹרָה), meaning "law" or "instruction," was central to defining what was considered sinful.

Thus, 1 John 3:4 is clear that sin is breaking God's law. However, this law reveals sin, not as a means of attaining righteousness but as a way of recognizing the nature of sin, as we’ll see in Paul’s writings.

Romans 3:20 – The Role of the Law in Making Us Conscious of Sin

Romans 3:20 (Lexham Translation):
"For by the works of the law no human being will be declared righteous before him, for through the law comes knowledge of sin."

The Greek word for "knowledge" here is ἐπίγνωσις (epígnōsis), indicating a full recognition or awareness. Paul’s argument in Romans 3:20 is that δικαιωθήσεται (dikaiōthēsetai), or "being declared righteous," cannot happen through ἔργων νόμου (ergōn nomou), meaning "works of the law."
Instead, the law's primary role is to reveal sin.


This is consistent with 1 John 3:4—the law exposes our transgressions, showing us our need for salvation. It doesn’t provide righteousness but makes us aware of our ἀνομία (anomia), or lawlessness.

Romans 6:14 – Freedom from Sin’s Power Through Grace

Romans 6:14 (Lexham Translation):
"For sin will not be master over you, because you are not under law but under grace."

In this verse, Paul contrasts two states: being under law (ὑπὸ νόμον) and being under grace (ὑπὸ χάριν).

Paul’s Greek here emphasizes the rulership or mastery of sin, where κυριεύσει (kyrieusei) means to "lord over" or have dominion. Paul is saying that sin no longer has dominion over the believer because they are not subject to the law’s condemnation but rather live under the grace of God through faith in Christ.

Paul consistently teaches that the law was never intended to provide a means of righteousness, as Romans 3:20 showed, but rather to reveal our sinful state.

In Romans 6:14, Paul assures the believer that through grace, not law-keeping, sin loses its hold, because righteousness is now through faith in Christ.


The law's role is not to justify or declare us righteous, but rather to expose sin. @uncle silas.

1. Sin is Lawlessness (1 John 3:4):
Sin is breaking God’s law (anomia). But simply avoiding sin (or transgressing the law) doesn't make someone righteous in God's sight.

2. The Law Makes Us Conscious of Sin (Romans 3:20):
The law serves the purpose of revealing sin. No one will be declared righteous by keeping the law, because its function is diagnostic, not salvific. It shows us our sinful condition, driving us to seek a solution outside ourselves.

3. Freedom from Sin’s Mastery through Grace (Romans 6:14):
Paul argues that the believer is not under the law’s condemnation but is under grace. Sin loses its dominion because the believer’s righteousness comes from faith in Christ, not by their ability to keep the law perfectly.



Galatians 3:10-11 (Lexham Translation):
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.' Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because 'the one who is righteous will live by faith.'"
Paul reinforces that trying to gain righteousness through the law leads to a curse, as no one can keep it perfectly. Righteousness comes through faith.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (Lexham Translation):
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
This passage further supports that righteousness and salvation come through faith, not works of the law.



To Paul, the law reveals sin and our inability to achieve righteousness through works. It is grace through faith in Jesus Christ that breaks sin’s hold over us and makes us righteous. The law cannot condemn a believer who is under grace, because their righteousness is found in Christ’s atoning work, not in their own obedience to the law.

Thanks.
J.
 
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Behold

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Why are you lecturing me about Mary?

Im not lecturing you at all.

Im just posting to your comments.

You stated that i should feel a certain way about Mary, and i dont.
I will never elevate a sinner who became a Daughter of God, as if She was Equal To Christ.

She's not.
She was a virgin Girl, who was of the Adamic line, needing to be SAVED, just like you, and me.

She is "blessed among women", but she is not blessed above them, as the "Cult of Mary" wants you to PREACH.

So, dont preach that garbage to a real Believer, who understands the reality about Mary.
Save that Nonsense for a Catholic.

I dont pray to Mary.
I dont twist Beads for Mary.
I dont burn candles for Mary.
I dont celebrate Pagan Festival "Mary Days".

I honor Jesus's Birth Mother, with the respect that is due her......but i dont elevate her to the position of "Meditrix" or anything like this...

Even Jesus said......>>>"who is my Mother, .. ?? "Its all who believe in Me....as they are my Mother, Brothers... ect".

Even from the CROSS< Jesus never called her "MOTHER"... He called her "WOMAN".... "Behold THY SON.""

If Mary could talk to the Billions of Catholics who are alive right now, she'd say.>"SHAME on you....... STOP THIS Mary Worshiping Nonsense"... "Im not your Savior".. "I didnt die for your SINS".....>>"STOP STOP STOP this Carnal Madness".

"TURN from this Cult".. "Leave it".. "Never Go BACK".. !!
 

GodsGrace

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Im not lecturing you at all.

Im just posting to your comments.

You stated that i should feel a certain way about Mary, and i dont.
I will never elevate a sinner who became a Daughter of God, as if She was Equal To Christ.

She's not.
She was a virgin Girl, who was of the Adamic line, needing to be SAVED, just like you, and me.

She is "blessed among women", but she is not blessed above them, as the "Cult of Mary" wants you to PREACH.

So, dont preach that garbage to a real Believer, who understands the reality about Mary.
Save that Nonsense for a Catholic.

I dont pray to Mary.
I dont twist Beads for Mary.
I dont burn candles for Mary.
I dont celebrate Pagan Festival "Mary Days".

I honor Jesus's Birth Mother, with the respect that is due her......but i dont elevate her to the position of "Meditrix" or anything like this...

Even Jesus said......>>>"who is my Mother, .. ?? "Its all who believe in Me....as they are my Mother, Brothers... ect".

Even from the CROSS< Jesus never called her "MOTHER"... He called her "WOMAN".... "Behold THY SON.""

If Mary could talk to the Billions of Catholics who are alive right now, she'd say.>"SHAME on you....... STOP THIS Mary Worshiping Nonsense"... "Im not your Savior".. "I didnt die for your SINS".....>>"STOP STOP STOP this Carnal Madness".

"TURN from this Cult".. "Leave it".. "Never Go BACK".. !!
Oh my dear Lord.
You've left me speechless.
John 19:26
Jesus said to John: Behold your mother.
Jesus gave Mary to John as his mother.
Mother to the Apostles, to be taken care of, to be respected, as Jesus taught us to honor our parents.
Your disrespect for Mary, the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God and God Himself, leaves me without words.
I'll pray that you come to understand that your attitude has no place for the mother of our Lord.
 
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GodsGrace

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Something to ponder-right?

1 John 3:4 – Defining Sin in Relation to the Law
1 John 3:4 (Lexham Translation):
"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."

The word used here for "lawlessness" is ἀνομία (anomia), which literally means being "without law" or "in violation of the law." This passage defines sin as a direct violation of God's moral law. In Hebrew thought, the Torah (תּוֹרָה), meaning "law" or "instruction," was central to defining what was considered sinful.

Thus, 1 John 3:4 is clear that sin is breaking God's law. However, this law reveals sin, not as a means of attaining righteousness but as a way of recognizing the nature of sin, as we’ll see in Paul’s writings.

Romans 3:20 – The Role of the Law in Making Us Conscious of Sin

Romans 3:20 (Lexham Translation):
"For by the works of the law no human being will be declared righteous before him, for through the law comes knowledge of sin."

The Greek word for "knowledge" here is ἐπίγνωσις (epígnōsis), indicating a full recognition or awareness. Paul’s argument in Romans 3:20 is that δικαιωθήσεται (dikaiōthēsetai), or "being declared righteous," cannot happen through ἔργων νόμου (ergōn nomou), meaning "works of the law."
Instead, the law's primary role is to reveal sin.


This is consistent with 1 John 3:4—the law exposes our transgressions, showing us our need for salvation. It doesn’t provide righteousness but makes us aware of our ἀνομία (anomia), or lawlessness.

Romans 6:14 – Freedom from Sin’s Power Through Grace

Romans 6:14 (Lexham Translation):
"For sin will not be master over you, because you are not under law but under grace."

In this verse, Paul contrasts two states: being under law (ὑπὸ νόμον) and being under grace (ὑπὸ χάριν).

Paul’s Greek here emphasizes the rulership or mastery of sin, where κυριεύσει (kyrieusei) means to "lord over" or have dominion. Paul is saying that sin no longer has dominion over the believer because they are not subject to the law’s condemnation but rather live under the grace of God through faith in Christ.

Paul consistently teaches that the law was never intended to provide a means of righteousness, as Romans 3:20 showed, but rather to reveal our sinful state.

In Romans 6:14, Paul assures the believer that through grace, not law-keeping, sin loses its hold, because righteousness is now through faith in Christ.


The law's role is not to justify or declare us righteous, but rather to expose sin. @uncle silas.

1. Sin is Lawlessness (1 John 3:4):
Sin is breaking God’s law (anomia). But simply avoiding sin (or transgressing the law) doesn't make someone righteous in God's sight.

2. The Law Makes Us Conscious of Sin (Romans 3:20):
The law serves the purpose of revealing sin. No one will be declared righteous by keeping the law, because its function is diagnostic, not salvific. It shows us our sinful condition, driving us to seek a solution outside ourselves.

3. Freedom from Sin’s Mastery through Grace (Romans 6:14):
Paul argues that the believer is not under the law’s condemnation but is under grace. Sin loses its dominion because the believer’s righteousness comes from faith in Christ, not by their ability to keep the law perfectly.



Galatians 3:10-11 (Lexham Translation):
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.' Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because 'the one who is righteous will live by faith.'"
Paul reinforces that trying to gain righteousness through the law leads to a curse, as no one can keep it perfectly. Righteousness comes through faith.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (Lexham Translation):
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
This passage further supports that righteousness and salvation come through faith, not works of the law.



To Paul, the law reveals sin and our inability to achieve righteousness through works. It is grace through faith in Jesus Christ that breaks sin’s hold over us and makes us righteous. The law cannot condemn a believer who is under grace, because their righteousness is found in Christ’s atoning work, not in their own obedience to the law.

Thanks.
J.
This is a great post on The Law.
I find that trying to explain the Law and how The Law is different from works of faith, could be quite difficult depending on who we're speaking to.
In an easy way, I'd say that The Law requires us to obey a long list of rules that are required to be saved - just memorizing them would be quite a task. Also, in the Mosaic Covenant, the Holy Spirit did exist of course, but He did not indwell the Israelites (or anyone in the OT) and so the MEANS to being able to obey The Law was also missing.

The new way, the New Covenant way of salvation, under grace, requires only 2 rules:
LOVE GOD
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

The rule is the heart - the change of the heart.
When this change happens, no rules are necessary because they're written on the heart and they come naturally.

Thus, as Hebrews declares, the New Covenant is superior to the Old (Mosaic) Covenant.
 
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Johann

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This is a great post on The Law.
I find that trying to explain the Law and how The Law is different from works of faith, could be quite difficult depending on who we're speaking to.
In an easy way, I'd say that The Law requires us to obey a long list of rules that are required to be saved - just memorizing them would be quite a task. Also, in the Mosaic Covenant, the Holy Spirit did exist of course, but He did not indwell the Israelites (or anyone in the OT) and so the MEANS to being able to obey The Law was also missing.

The new way, the New Covenant way of salvation, under grace, requires only 2 rules:
LOVE GOD
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.

The rule is the heart - the change of the heart.
When this change happens, no rules are necessary because they're written on the heart and they come naturally.

Thus, as Hebrews declares, the New Covenant is superior to the Old (Mosaic) Covenant.
I'll get back to you since it's 1:03 AM here in dark South Africa. I'm not being pessimistic; it’s just a fact. From what I've observed, you’re doing excellent work, and we can all benefit from a little "tweak" here and there to ensure our doctrines are accurate, as 2 Timothy 2:15 reminds us to be diligent in rightly dividing the word of truth. Let us continue sharpening each other, as Proverbs 27:17 says, "Iron sharpens iron."

Stay strong in the Messiah.
Shalom to you and your family.
J.
 

uncle silas

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Something to ponder-right?

1 John 3:4 – Defining Sin in Relation to the Law
1 John 3:4 (Lexham Translation):
"Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness."

The word used here for "lawlessness" is ἀνομία (anomia), which literally means being "without law" or "in violation of the law." This passage defines sin as a direct violation of God's moral law. In Hebrew thought, the Torah (תּוֹרָה), meaning "law" or "instruction," was central to defining what was considered sinful.

Thus, 1 John 3:4 is clear that sin is breaking God's law. However, this law reveals sin, not as a means of attaining righteousness but as a way of recognizing the nature of sin, as we’ll see in Paul’s writings.

Romans 3:20 – The Role of the Law in Making Us Conscious of Sin

Romans 3:20 (Lexham Translation):
"For by the works of the law no human being will be declared righteous before him, for through the law comes knowledge of sin."

The Greek word for "knowledge" here is ἐπίγνωσις (epígnōsis), indicating a full recognition or awareness. Paul’s argument in Romans 3:20 is that δικαιωθήσεται (dikaiōthēsetai), or "being declared righteous," cannot happen through ἔργων νόμου (ergōn nomou), meaning "works of the law."
Instead, the law's primary role is to reveal sin.


This is consistent with 1 John 3:4—the law exposes our transgressions, showing us our need for salvation. It doesn’t provide righteousness but makes us aware of our ἀνομία (anomia), or lawlessness.

Romans 6:14 – Freedom from Sin’s Power Through Grace

Romans 6:14 (Lexham Translation):
"For sin will not be master over you, because you are not under law but under grace."

In this verse, Paul contrasts two states: being under law (ὑπὸ νόμον) and being under grace (ὑπὸ χάριν).

Paul’s Greek here emphasizes the rulership or mastery of sin, where κυριεύσει (kyrieusei) means to "lord over" or have dominion. Paul is saying that sin no longer has dominion over the believer because they are not subject to the law’s condemnation but rather live under the grace of God through faith in Christ.

Paul consistently teaches that the law was never intended to provide a means of righteousness, as Romans 3:20 showed, but rather to reveal our sinful state.

In Romans 6:14, Paul assures the believer that through grace, not law-keeping, sin loses its hold, because righteousness is now through faith in Christ.


The law's role is not to justify or declare us righteous, but rather to expose sin. @uncle silas.

1. Sin is Lawlessness (1 John 3:4):
Sin is breaking God’s law (anomia). But simply avoiding sin (or transgressing the law) doesn't make someone righteous in God's sight.

2. The Law Makes Us Conscious of Sin (Romans 3:20):
The law serves the purpose of revealing sin. No one will be declared righteous by keeping the law, because its function is diagnostic, not salvific. It shows us our sinful condition, driving us to seek a solution outside ourselves.

3. Freedom from Sin’s Mastery through Grace (Romans 6:14):
Paul argues that the believer is not under the law’s condemnation but is under grace. Sin loses its dominion because the believer’s righteousness comes from faith in Christ, not by their ability to keep the law perfectly.



Galatians 3:10-11 (Lexham Translation):
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, 'Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law, to do them.' Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because 'the one who is righteous will live by faith.'"
Paul reinforces that trying to gain righteousness through the law leads to a curse, as no one can keep it perfectly. Righteousness comes through faith.


Ephesians 2:8-9 (Lexham Translation):
"For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast."
This passage further supports that righteousness and salvation come through faith, not works of the law.



To Paul, the law reveals sin and our inability to achieve righteousness through works. It is grace through faith in Jesus Christ that breaks sin’s hold over us and makes us righteous. The law cannot condemn a believer who is under grace, because their righteousness is found in Christ’s atoning work, not in their own obedience to the law.

Thanks.
J.


I agree with what you wrote, you put it very well.

So, why will sin not be a person's master if they don't believe sin can condemn them?

Imagine a thirteen year old who makes a personal commitment to God. They have been brought up strictly in tradition. The law must be obeyed. The pinnacle of the law is the TC. If that is not obeyed, the young man cannot attain to Heaven. The young man is in earnest about his religion, he is not half hearted by any means. He understands the demands of the TC, his eyes are wide open in this regard. The tenth one states:

Thou shalt not covet/thou shalt not desire what is not yours to desire/thou shalt not lust/thou shalt not dwell on impure thoughts.

So, the thirteen year old must not lust, they must not have impure thoughts. Heaven or hell, for them, can be decided upon over this issue. Think of the situation the young lad is faced with. They don't want to go to hell, they must not lust. Its a high stakes battle, the highest of all stakes is being played out here. I imagine there will be great fear of faliure. Can you ignore what you are afraid of? Or, will you end up being consumed by what you fear, you cannot get out of your mind what you fear. What will be the result of your fear of committing sin in such circumstances? Rom7:7-11 KJV

Of course, if you do not believe you are under righteousness of obeying the law, you will not get all worked up about your fear of faliure to comply with the commandment, heaven or hell is not then at stake. Then you will not get so excited/het up about what you should not do.
 
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J

Johann

Guest
I agree with what you wrote, you put it very well.

So, why will sin not be a person's master if they don't believe sin can condemn them?

Imagine a thirteen year old who makes a personal commitment to God. They have been brought up strictly in tradition. The law must be obeyed. The pinnacle of the law is the TC. If that is not obeyed, the young man cannot attain to Heaven. The young man is in earnest about his religion, he is not half hearted by any means. He understands the demands of the TC, his eyes are wide open in this regard. The tenth one states:

Thou shalt not covet/thou shalt not desire what is not yours to desire/thou shalt not lust/thou shalt not dwell on impure thoughts.

So, the thirteen year old must not lust, they must not have impure thoughts. Heaven or hell, for them, can be decided upon over this issue. Think of the situation the young lad is faced with. They don't want to go to hell, they must not lust. Its a high stakes battle, the highest of all stakes is being played out here. I imagine there will be great fear of faliure. Can you ignore what you are afraid of? Or, will you end up being consumed by what you fear, you cannot get out of your mind what you fear. What will be the result of your fear of committing sin in such circumstances? Rom7:7-11 KJV

Of course, if you do not believe you are under righteousness of obeying the law, you will not get all worked up about your fear of faliure to comply with the commandment, heaven or hell is not then at stake. Then you will not get so excited about what you should not do.
Will come back to you @uncle silas -almost 2 o' clock morning here in South Africa.
Shalom.
J.