Justified by Works
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I welcome any and all break down of Scripture you think will add clarification.
The power of sin is the law 1Cor15:56
For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death Rom7:5
for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. Rom7:7&8
Sin is the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore:
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in His sight by observing the law/not committing sin, rather through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
For sin shall no longer be your master for you are not under law/righteousness of obeying the law/righteousness of not committing sin, but under grace/righteousness of faith in Christ Rom6:14
They were accurate
@Johann It seems to me the Gospel is the declaration of God's righteousness (Ro 1:17)... but, also, of men possessing God's righteousness (Jer 23:6)... so, yes, "God is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins, and cleanse us of all unrighteousness," but that "talent" He sows into us is to yield a harvest of God's righteousness (Mt 25), "as I have loved you, so love one another", consistency between what we claim is our conviction and what we practice, which should be Love, which is walking by conviction of love, even when it is partially inaccurate. Peter himself is an example of this : before his vision, his conviction was only Jews could be saved, and he had to keep the dietary law, but, after, he walked by another conviction, that Gentiles could also be saved, and he broke the kosher law. God accepts us as we are, and moves us closer to truth, step by step--but though the truth is true, we are to remain within the confines of what our conviction permits (the one with a vegetarian conviction is not permitted to eat meat), or else we're condemned for not remaining in faith which is God's righteousness for God's glory ("let your light so shine that men see your good works and glorify your father in heaven").
You keep me on my toes, good for you!
Some references re faith is both passive and active-
1. James 2:17
"Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."
Greek: οὕτως καὶ ἡ πίστις, ἐὰν μὴ ἔχῃ ἔργα, νεκρά ἐστιν καθ’ ἑαυτήν.
πίστις (pistis, faith) as the subject is active, but ἔχῃ ἔργα (echē erga, does not have works) shows that it needs works to be alive. The present subjunctive ἔχῃ (have) emphasizes continuous action—faith needs works in an ongoing way.
2. Galatians 5:6
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love."
Greek: πίστις δι’ ἀγάπης ἐνεργουμένη.
The present participle ἐνεργουμένη (energoumenē, working) is a middle/passive form, indicating that faith is both expressing itself actively through love but also being worked out in a process.
3. Philippians 2:12-13
"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."
Greek: τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν κατεργάζεσθε... Θεὸς γάρ ἐστιν ὁ ἐνεργῶν ἐν ὑμῖν καὶ τὸ θέλειν καὶ τὸ ἐνεργεῖν.
κατεργάζεσθε (katergazesthe, work out) is an imperative in the middle voice, showing an active response from the believer. Meanwhile, ὁ ἐνεργῶν (ho energōn, God who works) indicates God's passive yet enabling role in making this action possible.
4. Romans 1:17
"For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'”
Greek: ὁ δὲ δίκαιος ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται.
ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται (ek pisteōs zēsetai, shall live by faith) employs the future indicative ζήσεται (shall live), showing that faith actively sustains life in an ongoing, future-oriented sense.
5. Ephesians 2:8-10
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God... For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works."
Greek: χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως.
σεσῳσμένοι (sesōsmenoi, have been saved) is perfect passive, showing a completed action in the past, while διὰ πίστεως (dia pisteōs, through faith) shows the role of faith as the channel, indicating a passive reception of salvation through active faith.
6. Hebrews 11:8
"By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance."
Greek: Πίστει Ἀβραὰμ ὑπήκουσεν.
ὑπήκουσεν (hypēkousen, obeyed) is aorist active indicative, emphasizing the one-time active response of Abraham, but πίστει (pistei, by faith) shows that this obedience was grounded in his faith, which passively received God's promise.
7. Romans 10:17
"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Greek: ἄρα ἡ πίστις ἐξ ἀκοῆς, ἡ δὲ ἀκοὴ διὰ ῥήματος Χριστοῦ.
ἡ πίστις (hē pistis, faith) is passively ἐξ ἀκοῆς (ex akoēs, from hearing), suggesting that faith is received through hearing. The passive form indicates that faith is something initiated by God's word, though hearing is active.
8. 1 Thessalonians 1:3
"Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ."
Greek: ἔργου τῆς πίστεως.
ἔργου (ergou, work) in the genitive with πίστεως (pisteōs, of faith) shows that faith is active in producing works. The genitive construction implies that faith is the source or cause of the work.
9. Colossians 2:6-7
"As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith."
Greek: ἐν αὐτῷ περιπατεῖτε... ἐν τῇ πίστει βεβαιούμενοι.
περιπατεῖτε (peripateite, walk) is a present imperative, indicating continuous, active obedience in faith. Meanwhile, βεβαιούμενοι (bebaioumenoi, being established) is a present passive participle, showing that faith passively grounds the believer, while walking is the active expression.
10. James 1:22
"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."
Greek: Γίνεσθε δὲ ποιηταὶ λόγου.
Γίνεσθε (ginesthe, be) is a present middle imperative, showing an ongoing, active command. ποιηταὶ (poiētai, doers) indicates that faith must actively manifest itself in deeds, contrasting with the passive reception of merely hearing.
These scriptures reflect both the active aspect of faith (obedience, walking, doing) and its passive nature (receiving grace, being established, hearing). The Greek grammar highlights this dual nature, where faith receives salvation passively (through God's work) but expresses itself actively in love and obedience.
Make sense?
J.
When did I say we were under the Law? We're under Grace--and Grace produces convictions in men, and the men are to walk by those convictions (Ro 14:5), or else face condemnation (Ro 14:23) for not walking in love (because faith works by love).
HOW is it that the man is "condemned" if all you need is "faith", and "faith" is not something we are to walk in (Ro 2:6-16,26,27, 4:12, 8:4, 14:5,23)?
Today you havent said we are under the law, I simply showed you my post to you was accurate, by supplying the scripture verses
You told me my version of events didn't fit with scripture
I will read through these carefully, but I wanted to comment :
Ro 1:17 God's righteousness is revealed from faith to faith ... The just shall live by faith
Heb 10 My righteous one will live by faith, but if My righteous one shrinks back My soul has no pleasure in him
Heb 11 Without faith it is impossible to please God ... (Hall of Faith) by faith, they did works acceptable to God
Ro 14:23 the one who eats with doubt is condemned for anything that is not of faith is sin
1 Jn 2:28 Little children abide in Him so when He appears we will not shrink back in shame
1 Jn 3:23 He who keeps His commands (believe in the Name of His Son and love others) abides in Him
Your post was partially accurate, partially inaccurate; I have proposed the solution.
My post was completely accurate, I have supplied the scripture verses to prove it. Tell me what was not accurate in that post, and I will repost the scripture to prove it was
Yeah, because if your works don't align with your faith, there is a fracture--what you think is what you do, so when you do deeds not in alignment with what you are claiming you believe, those previous thoughts/faith go away. This is the parable of the sower--some seed fell on rocky ground, some of thorny. You retain those thoughts of faith by continuously acting as is fitting along with those thoughts, or else the actions you do that do not align with those thoughts, which have their own thoughts that correspond to them, displace those thoughts of faith.
I've supplied you with ample explanations for why they were incomplete; you may respond to all of the information I have already spent my resources supplying you with.
I was not debating your thread. I responded to you saying Paul was difficult to understand. I then told you some of his message, and, I quoted the scripture verses to prove to you what I wrote was accurate
Obviously, one truth seems to conflict with another (or else there would be only one Church worldwide with one confession), until you read some more.
What you claim is incomplete and could mislead--if it is not also the case that you are also misled.
I appreciate how you are breaking the Greek down; I do not gloss over it, because I do not like when others gloss over my efforts which I take for their own good.
Am I misled? Your rational mind may think so. If the power of sin is the law, it should all make perfect sense.
