Judges 19

[Nancy]

While reading Judges, I came across a passage I forgot all about. It's vile IMHO and I have to wonder at the treatment of the concubine, and the virgin daughter (Can you say Sodom and Gomorrah?) Why (other than this concubine went back to her father in Bethlehemjudah) did the Levite do what he did to her??

"20 And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds."

What reason could anybody calling themselves Christians/Hebrews or even, pagans, to do such a thing? And why spread her body in 12 places (12 tribes of Israel...?) I cannot believe God would have approved of this.
Anybody have some insight to these verses?
Tanx

 

[Rita]

That’s weird Nancy
I am Going through a study Bible at the moment and today was the story of Lot and how he did exactly the same as this story in Judges, I found myself asking the same questions.

Yet when I looked into it more, with Lot he had been influenced by the culture, so had his daughters when they ended up laying with him in order to continue the family line after this event where he offers up his daughters.
The notes I found made the point That he didn’t consult God for advice, and he didn’t trust God for his safety, but also culturally it was important , above other things, to protect a guest in your house at all costs- it was a cultural code. His moral compass was impacted by that code.
Now later on Lot is stated as having righteousness. So despite this God still chooses to see him in a different light.
So the story shows us what can lead us down the wrong path , how culture can influences the decisions and choices we make.

 

[Cassandra]

That’s weird Nancy
I am Going through a study Bible at the moment and today was the story of Lot and how he did exactly the same as this story in Judges, I found myself asking the same questions.

Yet when I looked into it more, with Lot he had been influenced by the culture, so had his daughters when they ended up laying with him in order to continue the family line after this event where he offers up his daughters.
The notes I found made the point That he didn’t consult God for advice, and he didn’t trust God for his safety, but also culturally it was important , above other things, to protect a guest in your house at all costs- it was a cultural code. His moral compass was impacted by that code.
Now later on Lot is stated as having righteousness. So despite this God still chooses to see him in a different light.
So the story shows us what can lead us down the wrong path , how culture can influences the decisions and choices we make.

The repercussions of that sin almost wiped out the Benjaminites.

 

[Nancy]

That’s weird Nancy
I am Going through a study Bible at the moment and today was the story of Lot and how he did exactly the same as this story in Judges, I found myself asking the same questions.

Yet when I looked into it more, with Lot he had been influenced by the culture, so had his daughters when they ended up laying with him in order to continue the family line after this event where he offers up his daughters.
The notes I found made the point That he didn’t consult God for advice, and he didn’t trust God for his safety, but also culturally it was important , above other things, to protect a guest in your house at all costs- it was a cultural code. His moral compass was impacted by that code.
Now later on Lot is stated as having righteousness. So despite this God still chooses to see him in a different light.
So the story shows us what can lead us down the wrong path , how culture can influences the decisions and choices we make.

Thanks Reets, I figured it had to do with the culture then. Women were "things" to be used and tossed when no longer useful. SOOO glad I wasn't living back then!

 

[Nancy]

The repercussions of that sin almost wiped out the Benjaminites.

Really?? Can you give me the verses so I can share it with one of my brothers? He say's "just don't read it" Lol.

 

[Rita]

The interesting thing though was that Lots daughters were still virgins when he was going to offer them up to the men, so he had protected them in many ways. Also God protected them at that stage too, yet later the women’s own fears led them down the path of sleeping with their father and believing it was the only Way to continue the blood line.
Its Also important to remember that the OT is a story of relationships Unfolding and comparisons as to how things turn out for those who follow the Lord and those who don’t , and those who do a bit of both ( wish I was in group one all the time but I am not ) !!

 

[Nancy]

The repercussions of that sin almost wiped out the Benjaminites.

Yes, I read on further and since Benjamin is one of the 12 tribes, perhaps that is why some were spared...so the line could continue.
Still a horrid story but God put it in there for a reason. Thanks for response

 

[quietthinker]

What reason could anybody calling themselves Christians/Hebrews or even, pagans, to do such a thing? And why spread her body in 12 places (12 tribes of Israel...?) I cannot believe God would have approved of this.
Anybody have some insight to these verses?
Tanx

you have reason for alarm Nancy because it certainly makes mockery of the coined phrase, 'infallible word of God'

 

[Cassandra]

While reading Judges, I came across a passage I forgot all about. It's vile IMHO and I have to wonder at the treatment of the concubine, and the virgin daughter (Can you say Sodom and Gomorrah?) Why (other than this concubine went back to her father in Bethlehemjudah) did the Levite do what he did to her??

"20 And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds."

What reason could anybody calling themselves Christians/Hebrews or even, pagans, to do such a thing? And why spread her body in 12 places (12 tribes of Israel...?) I cannot believe God would have approved of this.
Anybody have some insight to these verses?
Tanx

This story is one of the most disturbing in the Bible, illustrating the depths of human depravity and the consequences of a society lacking strong moral and judicial leadership. I agree about the reason why Benjamin was "saved", although I was a tad upset as to how they got their wives.


Also the backstory on that Levite dude is pretty bad .I believe the Levite is the same one that Micah hired to be his priest, in the worship area he made for his mothers idols(This story is so weird. So it would not be that the Levite was one serving God. This Levite had left service. Read Judges 17 and 18. I believe the Levite in 19 is the same one in 17-18--both from same geographic place. So he doesn't appear to be acting for the Lord.

The Book of Judges is so weird, and tells us over and over, "In those days, Israel had no king.,and every man did right in his own eyes" . It wasn't too long after this, that Israel asked for a king. They could have listened to God, but chose human rule.

 

[Nancy]

This story is one of the most disturbing in the Bible, illustrating the depths of human depravity and the consequences of a society lacking strong moral and judicial leadership. I agree about the reason why Benjamin was "saved", although I was a tad upset as to how they got their wives.


Also the backstory on that Levite dude is pretty bad .I believe the Levite is the same one that Micah hired to be his priest, in the worship area he made for his mothers idols(This story is so weird. So it would not be that the Levite was one serving God. This Levite had left service. Read Judges 17 and 18. I believe the Levite in 19 is the same one in 17-18--both from same geographic place. So he doesn't appear to be acting for the Lord.

The Book of Judges is so weird, and tells us over and over, "In those days, Israel had no king.,and every man did right in his own eyes" . It wasn't too long after this, that Israel asked for a king. They could have listened to God, but chose human rule.

Sure is a weird book!
Looking for a King, huh! Reminds me of a Keith Green song:

 

[amigo de christo]

While reading Judges, I came across a passage I forgot all about. It's vile IMHO and I have to wonder at the treatment of the concubine, and the virgin daughter (Can you say Sodom and Gomorrah?) Why (other than this concubine went back to her father in Bethlehemjudah) did the Levite do what he did to her??

"20 And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street.

21 So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink.

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds."

What reason could anybody calling themselves Christians/Hebrews or even, pagans, to do such a thing? And why spread her body in 12 places (12 tribes of Israel...?) I cannot believe God would have approved of this.
Anybody have some insight to these verses?
Tanx

It was a warning . the vile act was found in the men of belial , not in the man that chopped her up . THOUGH of course
we would not do it today . but this does bring up a simple reminder perhaps .
I mean notice when even lott offered up his daughters in the stead of those men , NOTHING was allowed to happen to them .
But in this womans case , it was . it could be the fact she ran off and abandoned , though i am not quite sure .
GOD allows . also the reason he cut her up may have been to show the tribes the proof of what the tribe of benjamin had done .
Cause they rose as one to destroy that tribe . Men of belial are very dark creatures indeed .
and while at times they can appear so kind and caring , in time the hardness of sin will lead them into greater and great rebellion
JUST LIKE WE ARE SEEING TODAY . these men of belial today sure can appear so kind and loving
but man as time has went on , PHEW WEE they dont seem so loving towards scriptures that expose THIER SIN .
You see the church , through what it thought was so loving and kind and judge not
IT has led to THEIR BECOMING quite ENBOLDENED and very bold against SCRIP and any who dare even speak against their sin .
You can pet a snake all day , but in the end its still a snake sister . IF we dont correct sin and error within the church
EXPECT IT NOT to go away but rather TO TAKE OVER THE PLACE . just a friendly reminder .

 

[amigo de christo]

This story is one of the most disturbing in the Bible, illustrating the depths of human depravity and the consequences of a society lacking strong moral and judicial leadership. I agree about the reason why Benjamin was "saved", although I was a tad upset as to how they got their wives.


Also the backstory on that Levite dude is pretty bad .I believe the Levite is the same one that Micah hired to be his priest, in the worship area he made for his mothers idols(This story is so weird. So it would not be that the Levite was one serving God. This Levite had left service. Read Judges 17 and 18. I believe the Levite in 19 is the same one in 17-18--both from same geographic place. So he doesn't appear to be acting for the Lord.

The Book of Judges is so weird, and tells us over and over, "In those days, Israel had no king.,and every man did right in his own eyes" . It wasn't too long after this, that Israel asked for a king. They could have listened to God, but chose human rule.

actually if we examine that book and all other books in the old test we would have seen and learned something .
And if we read daily and examined the letters of even the apostels we would have seen and learned something .
Something that many no longer can even discern today . not only that , they have no idea
they are giving power unto it .
Would you like to know what it is . THE PATTERN that led to the destruction of the world in noahs days
and to some cities like sodom and gommorah and a few others
and then even the jews themselves , ITS OCCURING RIGHT NOW . you heard me right sister . WE REPEATING IT .
the sinner RUNS the show now . through a false love and judge not , correct not sin
THE CHURCH HAS GIVEN POWER and now the SINNER GROWS VERY BOLD IN HIS OR HER SIN .
The prophets prophesy lies to the people
and none does return from his wicked way for they just promise them life as is .
NOT ONLY did they not repent of their wicked way , THEY GREW BOLD IN IT .
now if even a man tries to correct it he gets told HEY YOU JUDGER , You came in here , in our church
to sourjourn and now YE BE A JUDGE .
and if that aint enough try looking at what they did the cake baker .
That man simply said , I cannot bake cakes for your wedding , but i can sell other things you like .
JUST LIKE LOTT . Please do not do so , here take my daughters , ONLY JUST LIKE with lott
THESE did to the cake baker , WE GONNA DEAL WORSE WITH YOU NOW , and they took him to court .
YOU should see the mess going on in the diverse unity churches too .
FOLKS are getting told BY LEADERS and DEACONS to LEAVE THEIR CHURCH if they dare to speak against certain sins .
THEY DONT EVEN NOT CORRECT THE SIN , THEY RUN OFF THOSE WHO WOULD . this is not looking TOO GOOD .
SEEKER FRIENDLY WAS A PILE OF HOT DUNG that destroyed the churches from within and led
to a society that was not shown the light but quicky rather has grown massive in darkness too .

 

[amigo de christo]

people keep scratching their heads wondering how on earth did it get to this point
and yet even many of those are doing the same things , repeat wash and rinse that led to this to begin with
as they just keep hollering judge not , judge not , judge not . talk about insanity . this is about to lead
to the day of total destruction that shall come by the VERY LORD that thier love and etc REBELLED AGAINST .
yeah , there is a love that sure seems right unto men and yet the end of it be but death . try to remember that
the next time one of these inclusive diverse judge not lovers spouts his mouth in your church . that love aint gonna save squat .

 

[amigo de christo]

you all be blessed now . Think i am gonna go have me some refreshing and reminders
in that BOOK so many now reject or twist .

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes, I read on further and since Benjamin is one of the 12 tribes, perhaps that is why some were spared...so the line could continue.
Still a horrid story but God put it in there for a reason. Thanks for response

it was the worst of them that got destroyed . not all FOUGHT , about six hundred ran .
THEY were spared . now the rest of the tribes were so angry they had made a vow to GOD
they would not give of them their wives . SO they could not break that vow .
HOWEVER due to that tribes need to continue , wives were found for them . just not of the other tribes .
GOD sure dont love sin and neither should we who are of HIM .
HE desires the death of none , but believe you me , the second death awaits all who reject JESUS THE CHRIST
and all who used HIS name to honor their own sin . CAUSE JESUS dont honor sin .
they came to a jesus who did honor sin . WHICH MEANS , ooopsy , it was the devil in wool preaching another jesus to them .

 

[amigo de christo]

Thanks Reets, I figured it had to do with the culture then. Women were "things" to be used and tossed when no longer useful. SOOO glad I wasn't living back then!

That is a lie my dear sister . did adam use his wife like that
and were the jews taught to do so . NOPE . i didnt see sarah being used as meat and property by abraham either .
nor did moses do so to his wives , nor did jospeh
nor did any of them . The man be the head , to say that is not demeaning to women .
The man is also to love his wife as the LORD love the church . the women just cant lead nor ursurp authority over the man
over the church . its just that simple . womens lib has taught us a lie . just as chavenist men taught a lie .
JUST gotta learn our bibles for ourselves .

 

[Rita]

Abraham made Sarah lie about who she was because he feared for his own life, twice , so she was taken by other leaders and potential could have been taken as their wives. That’s treating his wife really well.
Moses and others had more than one wife , so often as not , one was discarded - sure that made the first wife feel great !!
David disregarded his wives and had an affair.
Wives had little standing within the communities and cultures.

 

[Ritajanice]

It was a warning . the vile act was found in the men of belial , not in the man that chopped her up . THOUGH of course
we would not do it today . but this does bring up a simple reminder perhaps .
I mean notice when even lott offered up his daughters in the stead of those men , NOTHING was allowed to happen to them .
But in this womans case , it was . it could be the fact she ran off and abandoned , though i am not quite sure .
GOD allows . also the reason he cut her up may have been to show the tribes the proof of what the tribe of benjamin had done .
Cause they rose as one to destroy that tribe . Men of belial are very dark creatures indeed .
and while at times they can appear so kind and caring , in time the hardness of sin will lead them into greater and great rebellion
JUST LIKE WE ARE SEEING TODAY . these men of belial today sure can appear so kind and loving
but man as time has went on , PHEW WEE they dont seem so loving towards scriptures that expose THIER SIN .
You see the church , through what it thought was so loving and kind and judge not
IT has led to THEIR BECOMING quite ENBOLDENED and very bold against SCRIP and any who dare even speak against their sin .
You can pet a snake all day , but in the end its still a snake sister . IF we dont correct sin and error within the church
EXPECT IT NOT to go away but rather TO TAKE OVER THE PLACE . just a friendly reminder .

Brother, murderers still chop people up today, bodies are cut up and put in deep freeze.

I was watching a documentary where an army woman chopped up her daughter and buried her in the ground, the mother tried to commit suicide by drinking some chemical ,she survived because they found out what she drank, therefore could treat her, she got life in prison...very sad for that beautiful little girl who hadn’t even begun her life...my heart broke for the child as well as the mother, what could ever have brought her to such depravity?

 

[Marvelloustime]

people keep scratching their heads wondering how on earth did it get to this point
and yet even many of those are doing the same things , repeat wash and rinse that led to this to begin with
as they just keep hollering judge not , judge not , judge not . talk about insanity . this is about to lead
to the day of total destruction that shall come by the VERY LORD that thier love and etc REBELLED AGAINST .
yeah , there is a love that sure seems right unto men and yet the end of it be but death . try to remember that
the next time one of these inclusive diverse judge not lovers spouts his mouth in your church . that love aint gonna save squat .

 

[TLHKAJ]

It was a warning . the vile act was found in the men of belial , not in the man that chopped her up .

I disagree. The man chose to give his concubine to these men, knowing what could happen to her. The fault was first at his feet. If he had chosen differently, the concubine wouldn't have been abused and killed. He basically trafficked her.

Men so often have taken the weak route, rather than having a backbone and (as Paul said) loving their wife as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it. If these were Godly men, they would have placed themselves between danger and their wives and children.