Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!

[Grailhunter]

You again miss the truth of scripture by a mile.

No your belief system hates the truth.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Thanks Anthony,
Circumcision was seen as the ritual for entry into the Old Covenant with God and for non-Jews it was the ritual to convert to Judaism. So as Paul said, if you are circumcised you must keep the whole Law, all 613 Mosaic Laws. The Judaizers were in fact a group of Jewish Christians that wanted all Christians to be Jewish-Christians through circumcision. As Paul said a few dozen times, we are not under the Law, Christians do not follow the Law and those that do follow them and preach that others should follow them....as he said, And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Some call this a curse, but what it actually is, is a matter of fact. What Paul is saying is if you receive the ritual of circumcision, you have left the New Covenant with God and are then in the Old Covenant with God and are subject to the 613 Mosaic Laws. The major point was that the Judaizers wanted Christians to keep the Mosaic Law, and Paul's Major point was that Christians do not keep the Mosaic Law. His biggest challenge was against those that harassed him and insisted that Christians should follow the 613 Laws of Moses. And this was the reason for the Council in Jerusalem. So as a review....
2ND Corinthians 3:7-18 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, and are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not look intently at the end of what was fading away. But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

Galatians 3:1-5 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:24-26 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Romans 4:15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation.

Romans 5:13 For until the Law sin was in the world; sin is not imputed when there is no Law.

This one is important but long, basically Romans chapter 6. “What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died in sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in the newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin…….10 & 11 For the death that He died, He did to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Jesus Christ. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under the law, but under grace 18 Being then free from sin, you become the servants of righteousness.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath you free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Words mean things! lol

Hebrews 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

1st Cor. 9:20 And to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law, through not being myself under the Law, that I might win those who are under the Law;

2nd Cor. 3:3 being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone, but on tablets of human hearts.

Galatians..Oh my gosh!

Galatians 4:21 “Tell me, you who want to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?”

Galatians 5:3&4 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Galatians 3:12 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.

Hebrews 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never by the same sacrifices year by year, which they offer continually, make perfect those who draw near.

Act 13:38-39 Paul said, Therefore let it be known to you brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Thanks Anthony I am sure everyone needed a review.

I do not think you understand the use of the law.
It was not given to justify.
The list of verses you pulled out, show you are devoid of understanding as you mix verses that do not match.

 

[JohnPaul]

They were things like don’t move your neighbors property line don’t have sex with his livestock, don’t build steps leading to the temple or people will see your under carriage as you walk up them. They go on an on

You are joking right?

 

[Waiting on him]

You are joking right?

These are just a few that are in there, do you find these laws to be grievous?

 

[Waiting on him]

You are joking right?

Exodus 20:26 KJV
[26] Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

You are joking right?

Leviticus 18:23 KJV
[23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.


Tecarta Bible

 

[VictoryinJesus]

neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

...:

Revelation 13:3-4 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. [4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 17:8-9 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


Psalm 71:1-2 In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion. [2] Deliver me in thy righteousness, and cause me to escape: incline thine ear unto me, and save me.

 

[Waiting on him]

...:

Revelation 13:3-4 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. [4] And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 17:8-9 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [9] And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.


Psalm 71:1-2 In thee, O Lord, do I put my trust: let me never be put to confusion. [2] Deliver me in thy righteousness, and cause me to escape: incline thine ear unto me, and save me.

Definitely more to it than meets the eye.

 

[JohnPaul]

These are just a few that are in there, do you find these laws to be grievous?

I just thought you might be joking, bestiality too?

 

[Waiting on him]

I just thought you might be joking, bestiality too?

Isn’t this the topic the mosaic law?
My apologies if I’m of topic.

 

[justbyfaith]

If your bride turns out not to be virgin or does not bleed on your wedding night, kill her and leave her on her father's door step,

That is so funny! Welcome to my life! People go on and on about the Mosaic Law and they do not know it. The truth is, you would learn a whole new appreciation for what Christ did, if you understand the difficulty and cruelty of the Mosaic Law. lol When Christ said, My yoke is easy and my burden is light. He said a mouthful. A thorough and in depth study of the Mosaic Law and Judaic culture produces a whole new appreciation for Christianity....If you were forced to live a few years in their world, when you came back and someone said that Christians should obey the Mosaic Law, you would punch them in nose!

In other words, you can't provide chapter and verse. I know my Mosaic law well enough to know that that one isn't in there.

 

[justbyfaith]

They were things like don’t move your neighbors property line don’t have sex with his livestock,

I think that the livestock that you are not supposed to have sex with is not limited to that of your neighbor.

And I'm also pretty certain that the commandment not to move your neighbor's property line was spoken of in Proverbs (22:28 and 23:10-11).

Leviticus 18:23 KJV
[23] Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Tecarta Bible

 

[Waiting on him]

I think that the livestock that you are not supposed to have sex with is not limited to that of your neighbor.

And I'm also pretty certain that the commandment not to move your neighbor's property line was spoken of in Proverbs (22:28 and 23:10-11).

Here’s the good news; brother you don’t have to please me, only God.. and He’s already pleased with you

 

[Grailhunter]

In other words, you can't provide chapter and verse. I know my Mosaic law well enough to know that that one isn't in there.

Oh no....I figured you would find it by now. let me get it

 

[Grailhunter]

In other words, you can't provide chapter and verse. I know my Mosaic law well enough to know that that one isn't in there.

Let me give you some background first. The Hebrew language does not have words for wed or wedding. And actually weddings were a Pagan custom, that why our wedding customs of today have so many Pagan symbologies embedded in it. And yes the Jews of Christ’s time had learned that custom from the Persians.

So the Israelites / Jews did not usually have any kind of celebration for a marriage. A man my have received his wife through an arrangement with her father or taken one of the virgin captives in battle. Now the Hebrews may seem to be obsessed with virginity but the reason is religious and that is because the virgin womb was considered neutral. So they could take Pagan women. (Recognizing the fact that there were strict Mosaic Laws about taking Pagan wives. But the concern there is about having friendly relations or covenants with Pagan groups. But if you kill all that breaths, that means there will be no sons to avenge their fathers or anyone to make a covenant with. So in this case virgin females fell in the category of “booty” (I know that the term still exist today!) From there, Pagan or not, the act of marriage or concubinage is the “union” itself. No prescribed ceremony. This concept to some degree applies today in some areas were you can get a marriage annulled if it was not consummated.

But…but they did at times have celebrations between families and I am not going to say that they did not have their own little ceremony, but you will find none prescribed in the Old Testament. So let’s go through one of these possible sceneries for a marriage celebrations. So two families get together and there is food and drinks and dancing. And at sometime the bride and groom retire to the bridle chamber, during the celebration. Now the guests get quiet because they are listening for the bride to cry out when she looses her virginity. Now this is a big thing! After the couple is through and return to the guests to continue the celebrations, the mother would go into the bridle chamber to collect the sheets or bridal gown (usually white) as proof of her daughter’s virginity and display them to the guests. And here is why; Deuteronomy 22:13-21 “If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, ‘I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin,’ then the girl’s father and her mother shall take and bring out the evidence of the girl’s virginity to the elders of the city at the gate. The girl’s father shall say to the elders, ‘I gave my daughter to this man for a wife, but he turned against her; and behold, he has charged her with shameful deeds, saying, “I did not find your daughter a virgin.” But this is the evidence of my daughter’s virginity.’ And they shall spread the garment before the elders of the city. So the elders of that city shall take the man and chastise him, and they shall fine him a hundred shekels of silver and give it to the girl’s father, because he publicly defamed a virgin of Israel. And she shall remain his wife; he cannot divorce her all his days. But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father’s house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father’s house; thus you shall purge the evil from among you.


How is that?

 

[justbyfaith]

You said that the man who found her thus was commanded to kill her; when in all reality it would be the government of Israel that would execute justice.

This is a very important difference.

In one (the false scenario that you previously set forth), the man who found her not a virgin is commanded to disobey one of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill). In the other, the exception to "thou shalt not kill" becomes evident in that capital punishment is indeed an institution of the LORD (Genesis 9:6).

 

[Grailhunter]

You said that the man her found her thus was commanded to kill her; when in all reality it would be the government of Israel that would execute justice.

This is a very important difference.

In one (the false scenario that you previously set froth), the man who found her not a virgin is commanded to disobey one of the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill). In the other, the exception to "thou shalt not kill" becomes evident in that capital punishment is indeed an institution of the LORD (Genesis 9:6).

I am not going to call it a government. And in any legalist society there is the burden of truth. The husband did make the accusation and there nothing to say that he was not one of those stoning her to death.

 

[Waiting on him]

I am not going to call it a government. And in any legalist society there is the burden of truth. The husband did make the accusation and there nothing to say that he was not one of those stoning her to death.

Bottom line is we’re free to please God now.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am not going to call it a government. And in any legalist society there is the burden of truth. The husband did make the accusation and there nothing to say that he was not one of those stoning her to death.

You made it out like he was commanded to murder his wife over the issue. And while he may have been required to cast the first stone, it is clear to me that the congregation of Israel was the venue by which she was to be stoned. It is indeed a punishment instituted by the government; and not a vigilante action.

 

[Grailhunter]

You made it out like he was commanded to murder his wife over the issue. And while he may have been required to cast the first stone, it is clear to me that the congregation of Israel was the venue by which she was to be stoned. It is indeed a punishment instituted by the government; and not a vigilante action.

All legalistic executions for them occurred that way. The problem being that it is still cruel and maybe very unfair. Not all women bleed the first time.