No, you've got to be pretending to "have trouble understanding". It's really simple.
The Word of God, Jesus, is separate from the Spirit, yet the two are bound.
"The Words I speak are Spirit".
John 3 - Born of Water and Spirit
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The Word of God, Jesus, is separate from the Spirit, yet the two are bound.
"The Words I speak are Spirit".
It's not a "revelation" from God, period.
That's my view.
There's nothing left to say about it unless you want to make a thread about it for others to discuss it with you.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Big problem. It's very confusing. The word and the Spirit birth flesh, while the word and the Spirit birth spirit. Since you don't like my revelation, I won't like yours either, lol.
@Ferris Bueller
Which of the following are you prepared to deny:
1. We are born of the Word of God
1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
2. We are born of the Spirit
John 3:5
...unless he is born of... the Spirit.
3. The Word of God, Jesus, and the Spirit are two distinct Persons of the Trinity and are not the same.
Which of the following are you prepared to deny:
1. We are born of the Word of God
1 Peter 1:23
for you have been born again not of seed which is perishable, but imperishable, that is, through the living and enduring word of God.
2. We are born of the Spirit
John 3:5
...unless he is born of... the Spirit.
3. The Word of God, Jesus, and the Spirit are two distinct Persons of the Trinity and are not the same.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
But if the water is the word and the word is the Spirit how can is water birthing flesh not the word and the Spirit birthing flesh?
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
No, you must like what I say. That's how forums work. That's why they are here.
1. "My Word is Spirit" : they are distinct yet inseparable.
2. Clarify because this makes no sense.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. In John 4:10, Jesus said - "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water."
In John 4:14, Jesus said - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
In John 7:37, Jesus said - .."If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 3:5 - "Born of water and the Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:13 - .."drink into one Spirit."
"Water" is also used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God and is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
In John 4:14, Jesus said - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
In John 7:37, Jesus said - .."If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 3:5 - "Born of water and the Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:13 - .."drink into one Spirit."
"Water" is also used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God and is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
You are forgetting that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost dramatically changes all that. You are also forgetting the finished work of Christ and what it entails. No THERE IS NO REVERSAL of the New Birth. Kindly study the NT and leave the OT.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I'm not forgetting, I'm following 1 Corinthians 10--all of those things apply to us.
I try not to anymore... but I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibility the way things are going. LOL
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
None of these. What I deny is 'born of water' in the passage means 'born of the word'. If 'born of water' meant 'born of the word' then 'born of water' would be sufficient for one to see and enter into the kingdom of God. And it makes 'born of water and the Spirit' unnecessarily redundant.
1. So, you agree we're born of the Word, and you agree we're born of the Spirit... and yet you wouldn't say these are two different "new births" but one and the same "new birth".
2. It's not any more redundant than saying Jesus baptizes in "Spirit and fire".
3. As I noted earlier, I'm open to correction on this--either "water and Spirit" (eg, as with "Spirit and fire" it just refers to the Spirit) is just "the Spirit" or it means "Word and Spirit" for reasons I've previously given (eg, "wash her with water with the Word").
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