I have dealt with you in the past. You stick with your beliefs, I have no problem with it. Equally, I will stay with my beliefs. There is no harm in debating each other's beliefs as long as it stays civil and in a spirit of love.
Do you agree?
Jesus was tempted
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Do you agree?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
That’s what the Lord wants us to do ...taken years for him to get me to understand this, your post just reinforced what I believe the Spirit testifies with my spirit, it makes God happy, when we can debate with respect and stay in His Spirit Of Love!....music to my ears and also Gods....plus we keep our peace...when one starts being argumentative and rude, all peace goes out the window, speaking from my own experience.we are forever learning, Sister..
Yes it does, you have a very tender spirit...don't let it be corrupted by the words of others who try to flame or goad you for your beliefs.
Jesus was tempted.
He never did because He didn't have a sin nature. He could not sin becaue He was God in flesh.
You just shut down your own thread with your post above.
Jesus was tempted.
He was tempted to sin.
But He never did.
End of story.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Thank you, Praise God for that..
Words of knowledge and wisdom..Amen!
You imo are very mature in the Spirit, you’ve only got to read your posts to see that....I love to watch how you handle controversy...I’m getting there ,,lol, Praise God!..all in his timing Sis..
Thankful, and thank you to all whom have posted.
The point he understands.
There are so many people who say if you do fall short, God doesn’t love you anymore. That God is angry with you… none of that is true…
So we can learn to understand that Jesus too, was tempted just like us. So no one can say God doesn’t love people just because they fall short, and we have the High Priest who understand and can sympathize with us and through Yeshua by the spirit of Christ we can go to Yahavah about these things, find mercy, and understanding.
Like I’ve stated there are many people out there who will say if you fall short God doesn’t love you. That stuff is not true, we are able to get to Yahavah and ask him to help us in our short coming because knows we go through them, just as Jesus was tempted we can find some common ground here on these matters.
Isn’t that wonderful?
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are
Ask the Father to help you in your weakness,
This is on my favorite passages out of many.
The point he understands.
There are so many people who say if you do fall short, God doesn’t love you anymore. That God is angry with you… none of that is true…
So we can learn to understand that Jesus too, was tempted just like us. So no one can say God doesn’t love people just because they fall short, and we have the High Priest who understand and can sympathize with us and through Yeshua by the spirit of Christ we can go to Yahavah about these things, find mercy, and understanding.
Like I’ve stated there are many people out there who will say if you fall short God doesn’t love you. That stuff is not true, we are able to get to Yahavah and ask him to help us in our short coming because knows we go through them, just as Jesus was tempted we can find some common ground here on these matters.
Isn’t that wonderful?
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are
Ask the Father to help you in your weakness,
This is on my favorite passages out of many.
I asked you to show me where Jesus is described as "wrestling with sin and temptation"-phrases that are nowhere found in Scripture. By using such terms, you risk adding to God's Word, which we are cautioned against. @Heart2Soul, I made the point that the Messiah's temptations were external, and yet you provided no counterargument, because, quite frankly, there is no valid rebuttal to this.
Furthermore, I would appreciate it if you refrained from bringing up my past interactions. In all my engagements with other members, I have maintained civility and respect, so there is no reason to wield your "rod of correction" against me. I also want to express that I did not appreciate your ad hominem attack on me and @pepper. It was not done in the spirit of love or civility- rather, it was an uncivilized assault on my character.
Now, may I ask, what exactly is your demand here?
J.
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I don't think debating personally is what God wants us to do.
Sure Iron sharpens iron, but sometimes the will of a person desires it their own way over another and thus debates happen.
I don't care how anyone believes, it's nothing personal in the end. That is totally between themselves and God. If a person wants to suggest that Jesus wasn't ever tempted when the Bible states he was... okay then. Believe whatever you are going too.
I don't love anyone any less than the other. Some people can annoy me, sometimes you can see people are just being antagonistic to fulfill the needs of the flesh, and those things are just obvious if discerned correctly.
Im not a perfect man, with perfect character. I am a man... imperfect, tempted, and can only rely on the Spirit of Christ to help me get by in this life.
It will always be faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and because of his righteousness which makes a person right with Yahavah, and Yahavah gives the holy spirit to live by in their hearts.
Sure Iron sharpens iron, but sometimes the will of a person desires it their own way over another and thus debates happen.
I don't care how anyone believes, it's nothing personal in the end. That is totally between themselves and God. If a person wants to suggest that Jesus wasn't ever tempted when the Bible states he was... okay then. Believe whatever you are going too.
I don't love anyone any less than the other. Some people can annoy me, sometimes you can see people are just being antagonistic to fulfill the needs of the flesh, and those things are just obvious if discerned correctly.
Im not a perfect man, with perfect character. I am a man... imperfect, tempted, and can only rely on the Spirit of Christ to help me get by in this life.
It will always be faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and because of his righteousness which makes a person right with Yahavah, and Yahavah gives the holy spirit to live by in their hearts.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed osteen and many have long preached that humanistic philosphy and cloaked it as though
its truth . As he chants THIS is the BIBLE
and yet PREACHES SO DARN CONTRARY TO IT .
That man was right to do as HE did . ITs gotten far worse since those days .
One cannot even read a lot of passages in the church anymore without being RUN OFF as though
they the devil himself . This is about to explode as their hate leads them to HEED the solution
of He who cometh to steal , to kill , and to destroy and they will beleive
they do the will of GOD when the true ones are rounded up and even removed from society .
HATE is murder and will lead to murder . The hatred against TRUTH , against GOD CHRIST and the saints
who did not and will not conform is INCREASING and shall increase and laws and times are and shall change .
I used adjectives to demonstrate the depth of the temptation Satan used against Him.
As to your claim implying I have added to scripture...you have taken this out of context.
This scripture references the prophesy of Revelation.
Revelation 22 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹⁸ For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
¹⁹ And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
This scripture refers to the Laws of Moses...
Deuteronomy 4 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the LORD God of your fathers giveth you.
² Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
All translated Scriptures have added or left out words in translation because there wasn't a word in the language it has been translated to. Which is why many claim there are mis-interpretations of the original text.
And you falsely claim that I am attacking your character and you tag other members when you make this false claim.
Please don't continue to make false claims against myself or other members.
You seem intent on making this a personal matter, but for the third time, I ask you to show me anywhere in Scripture where it says that Jesus "wrestled against or with sin." What is peirazō? It refers to external testing or temptation. The Messiah was not inwardly inclined toward sin, and it appears you are unwilling to acknowledge this error.
Additionally, your implied tone of a threat is noted. I have no interest in engaging in a "debate" with staff members.
Predominantly External Usage
In the majority of its occurrences, peirazō refers to external testing or temptation. Examples:
1. Testing by Satan (External Temptation):
Matthew 4:1 (Textus Receptus):
Τότε ὁ Ἰησοῦς ἀνήχθη εἰς τὴν ἔρημον ὑπὸ τοῦ Πνεύματος πειρασθῆναι ὑπὸ τοῦ διαβόλου.
"Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
This describes Satan externally tempting Jesus, an external assault designed to provoke a response.
1 Thessalonians 3:5:
μὴ πείρασεν ὑμᾶς ὁ πειράζων...
"...lest the tempter had tempted you..."
Satan is again portrayed as the external agent of temptation.
2. Testing by Humans (External Challenges):
Matthew 16:1:
Καὶ προσελθόντες οἱ Φαρισαῖοι καὶ Σαδδουκαῖοι πειράζοντες ἐπηρώτησαν.
"The Pharisees and Sadducees came and tested Him by asking for a sign from heaven."
Here, peirazō describes external testing by human agents with an intent to trap or challenge.
John 8:6:
Τοῦτο δὲ ἔλεγον πειράζοντες αὐτόν.
"They said this testing Him..."
The scribes and Pharisees externally test Jesus to trap Him in His words.
3. Testing by God (External and Purposeful):
Hebrews 11:17:
Πίστει Ἀβραὰμ πεπειρασμένος προσήνεγκεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ.
"By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac."
God externally tests Abraham to demonstrate and refine his faith.
James 1:13:
Μηδεὶς πειραζόμενος λεγέτω ὅτι Ἀπὸ Θεοῦ πειράζομαι.
"Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am tempted by God.'"
This passage contrasts external testing by God (to refine) with internal temptation (associated with evil desires).
Internal Usage of Peirazō
While less common, peirazō can describe internal temptation arising from within an individual.
1. James 1:14-15 (Internal Desires):
Ἕκαστος δέ πειράζεται ὑπὸ τῆς ἰδίας ἐπιθυμίας ἐξελκόμενος καὶ δελεαζόμενος.
"But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed."
This passage directly links peirazō with internal struggles caused by personal desires, emphasizing the internal nature of this temptation.
2. Galatians 6:1 (Self-Temptation):
Σκοπῶν σεαυτόν, μὴ καὶ σὺ πειρασθῇς.
"Considering yourself, lest you also be tempted."
The warning suggests guarding against internal temptation that could arise from one's own vulnerability.
The majority of peirazō instances in the New Testament describe external testing or temptation, whether from Satan, humans, or God. These external tests are aimed at challenging, refining, or exposing an individual's response.
Internal usage, while present, is less common and typically associated with personal desires or vulnerabilities (e.g., James 1:14).
The context of each passage must determine whether the temptation is primarily external or internal. However, it is accurate to say that peirazō most often refers to external testing or temptation.
Interpret this however you wish, but I have no interest in continuing any further dialogue with you.
J.
Wise choice. Jesus didn't wrestle with sin. That's the fact in scripture.
There's nothing to discuss when nothing of the sort exists in scripture.
Jesus was accused of sin. Remember?
And even still after these 2000 years.
John 8
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Look at this scripture @Heart2Soul ..
Also if Jesus hadn’t been tempted like we are , then how could he relate to our temptation to sin?
I like to stay open minded as we seek Gods truth, we seek his truth don’t we?...that’s what we’re called to do...only the Spirit can reveal Gods truth to our spirit/ heart, we can’t search the scriptures of our own accord, by our own understanding, i can’t anyway, I have to wait on the Holy Spirit to bring scripture to my understanding...there is much in the Bible that God hasn’t brought me to understand..just my belief and thoughts..another thing I believe the Spirit is teaching me this.
Don’t start preaching that all you say is the right way and everyone else who doesn’t agree with you is wrong...that is not the right way to discuss, just talking about me here and what’s been placed on my heart to say, imo...also Sis, ( not talking about you) as soon as some of us start forcing our belief onto others, inevitably it will go down hill.....because that is not how Jesus taught/ preached.plus finger pointing and connotations in what some say, that if we don’t believe as they do, then they aren’t saved...speaking from my own experience which I’m rather embarrassed to admit to.thats all in the past now I believe...thankfully we are always growing in spirit knowledge/ heart knowledge..we need to be Born Again to be able to do any spirit growing and maturing in the Spirit.
I’ve empathised these verses.as it states he was made to be fully human in every way...
17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
6 But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.
9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.
11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
12 He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters; in the assembly I will sing your praises.”
13 And again, “I will put my trust in him.”And again he says, “Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Also if Jesus hadn’t been tempted like we are , then how could he relate to our temptation to sin?
I like to stay open minded as we seek Gods truth, we seek his truth don’t we?...that’s what we’re called to do...only the Spirit can reveal Gods truth to our spirit/ heart, we can’t search the scriptures of our own accord, by our own understanding, i can’t anyway, I have to wait on the Holy Spirit to bring scripture to my understanding...there is much in the Bible that God hasn’t brought me to understand..just my belief and thoughts..another thing I believe the Spirit is teaching me this.
Don’t start preaching that all you say is the right way and everyone else who doesn’t agree with you is wrong...that is not the right way to discuss, just talking about me here and what’s been placed on my heart to say, imo...also Sis, ( not talking about you) as soon as some of us start forcing our belief onto others, inevitably it will go down hill.....because that is not how Jesus taught/ preached.plus finger pointing and connotations in what some say, that if we don’t believe as they do, then they aren’t saved...speaking from my own experience which I’m rather embarrassed to admit to.thats all in the past now I believe...thankfully we are always growing in spirit knowledge/ heart knowledge..we need to be Born Again to be able to do any spirit growing and maturing in the Spirit.
I’ve empathised these verses.as it states he was made to be fully human in every way...
17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Hebrews 2
Warning to Pay Attention
1 We must pay the most careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.2 For since the message spoken through angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
3 how shall we escape if we ignore so great a salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Jesus Made Fully Human
5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.6 But there is a place where someone has testified: “What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him?
7 You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor
8 and put everything under their feet.”In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them.
9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
10 In bringing many sons and daughters to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the pioneer of their salvation perfect through what he suffered.
11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.
12 He says, “I will declare your name to my brothers and sisters; in the assembly I will sing your praises.”
13 And again, “I will put my trust in him.”And again he says, “Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
17 For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
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Hobie
Well-Known Member
So then we are born immune, and have no worries.. No my brother, that is the deceiver giving the lie, which says Christ did not prove we could overcome and His whole purpose was to show us nothing. The devil knows, his only chance to induce Him to sin was when He could be tempted as we are, as fully man...
Wow, you have been studying the Word! That's what I love about discussions like this, it prompts us to study and seek His truth.
Way to go, sister!
Thank God for anointed preachers/teachers!
The question of Jesus temptations has been raised again. It is a complex, but very important area of theology. Here are twelve points to keep in mind about Jesus’ temptations.
Thinking about Jesus’ experience of temptation highlights the mystery of his person. Since Jesus is fully God and fully human—and Creator and creature are infinitely different—then there must be mysteries, and even paradoxes in what we affirm about Jesus. We can affirm certain things, as I will here, but we cannot hope to describe Jesus’ inner experience of temptation.
The New Testament words translated “tempt” and “temptation” (peirazo/peirasmo) mean test or trial, they do not always refer to “enticement to do wrong” (what we could call moral trial).
We should not assume that every time the New Testament speaks of temptation it means an inner desire toward sin.
Jesus faced the trials of suffering and death (Luke 22:28), and moral trial as the Tempter sought to divert him from his devotion to God (Matt 4:3).
The gospels highlight Jesus’ moral trials at the start of his ministry (Matt 4:1-11 Mark 1:12, 13; Luke 4:1-13). These Satanic temptations continued through his whole life (Luke 4:13). His death was the height of his trials, both general and moral (Luke 22:28,48; John 12:27).
Jesus’ temptations were focused on his messianic task, they were opportunities to turn from the path of suffering and death. They were also general human temptations. The temptations in the wilderness related to his identity as the Son of God, but were also common human temptations to doubt God’s goodness, test God’s faithfulness and turn to false worship.
Satan appealed to Christ’s valid human needs for food, reassurance, success. From these we can start to think of how Jesus was “tempted in every way” (Heb 4:15). Yes?
Through temptation and obedience, Jesus was fully qualified (“made perfect”) to be saviour and the high priest for God’s people (Heb 2:10). Here “made perfect” (teleioo) means fully equipped for God’s purpose, not correcting Jesus’ life as if he needed to be turned away from sin.
Jesus lived, and faced temptation, by the power of the Spirit (Matt 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:18, 28; Luke 1:35, 80; 4:1, 18; 10:21; John 1:32-33; 3:34; 6:63). By the Spirit he offered himself to God in his death (Heb 9:14).
Jesus did not sin. He is “without sin” (Heb. 4:15 cf 7:26) and “committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth” (1 Pet. 2:22 cf John 8:46; 2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Jn 3:5).
Although there is some debate about this, we should affirm the Christ has no ‘sinful nature’. He came as the head of a new humanity just because he is the second Adam, not a member of the first Adam. To be truly human does not require a fallen nature, in fact the fall distorts and corrupts humanity. True humanity is only restored in Christ.
He was free from inherent sin. Nowhere in the structures of his being was there any sin. Satan had no foothold in him. There was no lust. There was no affinity with sin. There was no proloctivity to sin. There was no possibility of temptation from within. In no respect was he fallen and in no respect was his nature corrupt.[1]@Heart2Soul
To be truly human does not require a fallen nature, in fact the fall distorts and corrupts humanity. True humanity is only restored in Christ.
Enticement for Christ to turn from God’s way came from outside of himself.
Satan could use Jesus’ valid human desires, which in a fallen world are weaknesses (Heb 5:2). In this sense, Jesus’ temptations were certainly ‘inner’. The enticement, and the sinfulness, came to Christ from the Tempter.
If we ask, “Could Jesus have sinned?”, we arrive at a point of paradox. As God, he could not sin; as a human there must be some sense in which he could sin. The very fact of temptation implies the possibility of sin. How could the One who cannot sin face the prospect of being enticed into sin? Who can imagine?
Jesus’ temptations were entirely real. He entered our battle and lived under the conditions of our struggle, seeing it to the very end (unlike us).
Jesus’ temptations were more intense than those endured by any other person. The New Testament witness to the Satanic activity around Jesus ministry highlights the intensity of his temptations. In agony in Gethsemane he strained to commit himself to follow his Father’s will (Matt. 26:37–39; Luke 22:41–44). This point is underline in famous words from Westcott on Hebrews 2:18.
‘Sympathy with the sinner does not depend on the experience of sin but on the experience of the strength of the temptation to sin which only the sinless can know in its full intensity. He who falls yields before the last strain’.[2]
Jesus’ temptations were more intense than those endured by any other person.
The temptations of Christ are central to his work. They also remind us of the mystery of the incarnation.
No doubt, as with our temptations, Satan appealed to Christ’s human desires and weaknesses.
There are two great difference between Christ’s temptations and ours. First, our temptations arise, in part, from our own distorted desires; to the extent that they were enticement to sin, his came from without.
Second, Christ resisted temptation entirely and utterly, continually dedicating himself to his Father’s will. He alone knows the full pain and cost of resisting temptation. Thank God, he did that for us.
You want the link?
J.
"I believe Jesus experienced as a man the very thoughts we do, and therefore he shares the state of the human heart."
Jesus was defiled, per MattG adding Mark 7:21 to prove his point.
Jesus was a man but he was also God. Jesus was alone during His fast in the desert those 40 days. He wasn't living a parable,an example, before witnesses.
The one He was providing a lesson to was Satan.
Satan challenged Jesus multiple times to prove Himself as the Son of God.
Jesus cited scripture and never conceded to show proof and satisfy Satans demand.
For all Satan then knew he was encountering a man in the desert. And the lesson he garnered,whether he recognized it or not,is that a man who is later in Christ will overcome the leadings of the adversary.
Jesus is more powerful than the enemy of man.
A message Satan certainly could never ignore when Jesus resurrected from death three days after His crucifixion. Therein stripping the power of death from Satan.
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