Jesus warned that the world would hate us - And for good reason

[Aunty Jane]

The first few are loaded questions. Moving on...

Loaded with what though.....? The Bible itself provides answers to those “loaded questions”....it’s the churches that load them with way more than they actually mean. Keeping it simple....what does the Bible actually tell us about God and about time?

Exodus ch 12 is interesting reading because we get a view of what happened just before Israel’s departure from the land of Egypt (some 430 years have passed since they entered Egypt as a small family group in Joseph’s day, seeking refuge from a famine that struck the land and Jacob’s family as well) when God established the celebration of the Passover.

The closing part of that chapter says.....
“All the Israelites did just what the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.” (NIV).

If the people had not obeyed God’s instructions to the letter that night, their disobedience would have brought death to their own firstborn. So strict obedience is what God commanded regarding the blood on the doorposts and their eating of the Passover meal, and it saved their children’s lives....leading to their freedom from slavery despite Pharaoh’s failed efforts to bring them back.

Now move on to Mount Sinai and the instructions given to Israel through Moses in the 10 Commandments that God was going to give his people along with other laws to follow, for their wellbeing and the promised reward of his blessings.

What did he say to them?
Exodus 19:4-8...
“You have seen for yourselves what I did to the Egyptians, in order to carry you on wings of eagles and bring you to myself. 5  Now if you will strictly obey my voice and keep my covenant, you will certainly become my special property out of all peoples, for the whole earth belongs to me. 6  You will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

7  So Moses went and summoned the elders of the people and declared to them all these words that Jehovah had commanded him. 8  After that all the people answered unanimously: “All that Jehovah has spoken, we are willing to do.” Moses immediately took the people’s response to Jehovah.”

What do we see there about God? His expectations of his chosen people? His offer to them and their acceptance of the terms of his agreement.....And also the time taken to release them from slavery?

Give us your take on those things.

Human accountability? Absolutely. But with the purpose of correction and restoration.

So if we have God’s laws and are told, like Israel, to strictly obey them, what does that mean for Christians? Any less? These are not the laws that Israel was bound to, but the laws propounded by Jesus in his teachings. (John 14:15) He and his apostles covered the laws regarding marriage and sexual immorality and idolatry. They highlighted what God wants from us as followers of Christ. What was it that Christ instructed his disciples to do just before the left the earthly scene? (Matt 18:19-20; Matt 24:14) Do the churches actually do what Christ commanded? Or do we see them making excuses for why they don’t fulfill the “great commission?

Did he tell them how to carry it out? (Matt 10:11-14)

Are God’s expectations of us too demanding?
"... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..."
That pretty well sums it up. We are expected to be like him.
Except we can't, because he is God.

If we understand what caused us to inherit this terminal condition, and there is a way to make sure that we don’t allow it to make us carry out what is first of all a thought in our minds, and then is translated into actions that cause us regret, just being able to correct a wrong thought before it manifests into action, gives us power over sin. Do we have that admonition?

James 1:13-15...
“13  When under trial, let no one say: “I am being tried by God.” For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. 14  But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 15  Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn sin, when it has been carried out, brings forth death.”

There it is.....we have no one to blame but ourselves if we carry out sin, even if it is within our thoughts to do so. We drive this body...it should not drive us.....but it will if we let it.

Not sure about a long term solution.

Every time you have prayed the Lord’s Prayer, you are praying for “the long term solution”....”God’s Kingdom” will “come”, so that God’s will can “be done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN”.

What therefore are we taught to pray for? That seems to be a difficult question given Christendom’s fixation with going to heaven....that was never in God’s first purpose for the human race....we were created as earth bound passengers of space ship Earth....hurtling through space at great speed, yet firmly secured by gravity so as not to even notice, except for the phases of the moon and the stars at night instructing us about our place in a vast Universe. Time is relevant only because of the rotation of our planet. It doesn’t really exist as something finite in the Universe. God operates in Universal time because his most powerful adversaries exist in that realm.

I suppose those that call themselves Christian
had better shine the light of Christ into the lives of others. This common attitude in the
church of being hateful toward those outside the church needs to stop.

When God introduced the gentiles to Jesus he did not do so with a record of Jesus only dealing with Jews even though he was sent exclusively to “the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. His first confession to being the Messiah was given to a Samaritan woman...not only denigrated by her nationality but also by her gender in Jewish society of the day. Jesus never downgraded women, but treated them with respect and dignity.

After the conversion of Cornelius, (the first Gentile converted to Christianity without having to become a worshipper of Jehovah as a Jewish proselyte) Peter was moved to say...
“Now I truly understand that God is not partial, 35  but in every nation the man who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” (Acts 10:34-35)

So Christians have only one agenda with regard to people of other faiths....to tell them about Jesus Christ and give them the same opportunity that was given to us. Unlike the Jews, we have a choice about whom we worship. Our choice determines our future because Jehovah has no time or room for those who want to worship other gods, who do not even exist.

My personal solution is to be out in the world and embrace the people around me, showing an interest in them and their well-being.

I'll look at you and smile as I go by. Most people are hungry for this.

Yes indeed...that is commendable, but unless you bring them to Christ and they respond by accepting him as their savior, your efforts will be rewarded only with the friendship of unbelievers....nothing more important than that. Jesus told us to preach...not to deaf ears but to search out deserving ones who genuinely want to know who the true God is, and why they needs to accept Jesus as the only means of their salvation. (Matt 10:11-14) It’s a search and rescue mission....not simply a friendship mission.

Your thoughts?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
The first few are loaded questions. Moving on...

Loaded with what though.....? The Bible itself provides answers to those “loaded questions”....it’s the churches that load them with way more than they actually mean. Keeping it simple....what does the Bible actually tell us about God and about time?

Here is what you asked.

What does all that tell us?...about God?....about time?....about the future?...about human accountability?.....about our sinful state? And why the world would hate us just for obeying Christ?

You referenced the conclusions you had already made about this. Asking me what YOUR conclusions say.
There is no room for my view in those questions. Not a huge deal, just unanswerable. IMHO

If you want to re-frame this list of questions to make room for me, then I could respond.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Human accountability? Absolutely. But with the purpose of correction and restoration.

So if we have God’s laws and are told, like Israel, to strictly obey them, what does that mean for Christians? Any less?

You and I have a completely different views on the law. (what you call "God's law")
The Apostle Paul is clear that we are not under the law, but under grace.

If we understand what caused us to inherit this terminal condition, and there is a way to make sure that we don’t allow it to make us carry out what is first of all a thought in our minds, and then is translated into actions that cause us regret, just being able to correct a wrong thought before it manifests into action, gives us power over sin. Do we have that admonition?

But you asked me if God’s expectations of us are too demanding?
I'm being honest by saying, Yes. (something that is short supply around here)

So Christians have only one agenda with regard to people of other faiths....to tell them about Jesus Christ...

This hold-others-at-arms-length (as if they are diseased) treatment tells the world that they are just numbers to us.
They aren't people, they are projects. And if things don't go the way we want, we shun them and move on.

St. SteVen said:
My personal solution is to be out in the world and embrace the people around me, showing an interest in them and their well-being.
I'll look at you and smile as I go by. Most people are hungry for this.

Yes indeed...that is commendable, but unless you bring them to Christ and they respond by accepting him as their savior, your efforts will be rewarded only with the friendship of unbelievers....nothing more important than that. Jesus told us to preach...not to deaf ears but to search out deserving ones who genuinely want to know who the true God is, and why they needs to accept Jesus as the only means of their salvation. (Matt 10:11-14) It’s a search and rescue mission....not simply a friendship mission.

I have a few issues with this line of reasoning. (echoed in my comments above)
You write, "Jesus told us to preach...not to deaf ears but to search out deserving ones who genuinely want to know who the true God is..."
Conversely, you have decided that those who are not ready to jump on board are undeserving. And we should steer clear of them?

I would say that we have no idea what is going on in a person's life, or how we might fit in with what God is doing.
If all we can think about is "going for the sale" they will see right through that. It's not our job to save anyone.

I want to project what I view as God's attitude toward humankind. He loves and cares for everyone.
He doesn't view anyone as "undeserving" of his love.

If we really want to see a solution to why the world hates us, that would be it.
They hate us because we hate them. We are the ones "undeserving" of their love.

[

 

[Aunty Jane]

Bear with me her StS….

You referenced the conclusions you had already made about this. Asking me what YOUR conclusions say.
There is no room for my view in those questions. Not a huge deal, just unanswerable. IMHO

If you want to re-frame this list of questions to make room for me, then I could respond.

I gave you our take on the things mentioned and asked what your take was…..if you think that the interpretation I offered somehow disarms your own view, then what does that mean?

I can furnish Scripture to back up everything I say because I am a student of the Bible and have studied it carefully for many years. I make sure that what I believe is scriptural, not just my preferred view because my sensibilities are upset by something God has done in the past that Universalists seem to want to rewrite somehow.
Does the Creator not have the right to do with his own creation, whatever he pleases?
Does he have to answer to us…or is it we who have to answer to him? I am beginning to wonder….

You and I have a completely different views on the law. (what you call "God's law")
The Apostle Paul is clear that we are not under the law, but under grace.

I already told you that it was not the old law covenant that I referenced….it was all the laws that Christ and his apostles laid out as applying in all areas of a Christian’s life. Some of these were echoing the laws given to Israel, but there were over 600 of them. Jesus reiterated a few very important ones to his followers.

When some zealous Jewish Christians attempted to make their gentile brothers follow the law on circumcision and others, the apostles and older men had to settle this dispute because it was causing division….

Here is their conclusion, sent in a letter to all the congregations from this central governing body in Jerusalem.…

Acts 15:28-31…
”For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

30 So when these men were dismissed, they went down to Antioch, and they gathered the whole group together and handed them the letter. 31 After reading it, they rejoiced over the encouragement.”

It was the Holy Spirit that guided their decision to maintain those “necessary” aspects of the law that were universal. “Things sacrificed to idols”….’eating blood or a strangled animal which was not properly killed or bled’…and from “sexual immorality”. We are to “carefully keep ourselves from these things”.
Circumcision, the Sabbath observance and the Passover were no longer valid as they pertained only to Jews.
All of the things mentioned in their letter were not troubling to Jewish Christians because God’s law forbade them, and they had been obeying his laws all their lives…..but for gentiles, those things may have been practiced without a single qualm of conscience….now they all had to practice one faith, with all in agreement. (1 Cor 1:10)

But you asked me if God’s expectations of us are too demanding?

I'm being honest by saying, Yes. (something that is short supply around here)

Can I ask in what way you think his expectations are too demanding?
He gave the life of his precious son because he loved us enough to do that. Can we not love him enough to do as we are told?…..what does he ask that is beyond our ability to comply? Are we at liberty to impose our will on him?

This hold-others-at-arms-length (as if they are diseased) treatment tells the world that they are just numbers to us.
They aren't people, they are projects. And if things don't go the way we want, we shun them and move on.

This is not what the Bible teaches at all…..the ones whose company we would avoid are those who practice things that violate God’s clearly written commands. The company we keep has a direct bearing on our own conduct. Keeping close company with those who have loose morals or who practice a form of worship that requires them to break God’s law, then why would we want to maintain a friendship and fellowship with them. This word “fellowship” is not just acquaintance with someone but a sharing of faith with like minded individuals…..as Paul said….
”And let us consider one another so as to incite to love and fine works, 25 not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.”
This “meeting together” was for mutual encouragement in the faith. It was mutually beneficial for all to be spiritually unbuilt and to encourage one another as the days became more wicked. The challenge for our day is to maintain a separateness from the world so that it’s lack of morals and its lust for violence and bloodshed, do not infiltrate our thinking. Keeping close company with such ones would be dangerous. Even on a screen in our homes.

Again Paul wrote to the Hebrew Christians….
“Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits. 34 Come to your senses in a righteous way and do not practice sin, for some have no knowledge of God. I am speaking to move you to shame.”

Our conduct is as much a witness for Christ as our beliefs. If we are indistinguishable from the world and it’s practices, how will those who do not know God, get to see his spirit in action in us?

Paul‘s statement begins with the words..”do not be misled”…..so we can be misled in our thinking that rubbing shoulders with those who practice sin habitually, with no desire to change their ways, are not fit company for a Christian. We can start to imitate their ways and thinking….no one in a sin laden body is immune to that.

It doesn’t mean we can‘t be friendly towards them, but we would not choose to fellowship with them on a regular basis. Even at their gatherings if alcohol is freely flowing, we know where that could lead…if many at the gathering are drunk, and we don’t feel like ‘a fish out of water’ in those circumstances, something is amiss in our thinking.

 

[Aunty Jane]

My personal solution is to be out in the world and embrace the people around me, showing an interest in them and their well-being.
I'll look at you and smile as I go by. Most people are hungry for this.

Yes, and we see in Jesus’ ministry, he sought out people of all persuasions to preach to them. He did not seek their friendship for the sake of it, but appealed to the good in them to bring these “lost sheep” back to God. The Pharisees denigrated him for “eating with tax collectors and sinners”…..but these were the very ones he sought out…those who had given up because the hypocritical Pharisees had put loads on the people’s shoulders that were over and above the difficult law that they already had.
Jesus said his load was “light” but it was still a load.…not unnecessarily “heavy”. So this again begs the question….what “load” are we to carry as a Christian?

You write, "Jesus told us to preach...not to deaf ears but to search out deserving ones who genuinely want to know who the true God is..."
Conversely, you have decided that those who are not ready to jump on board are undeserving. And we should steer clear of them?

We have the example of the disciples whom Jesus sent out to preach…what did he tell them…?

Matt 10:11-15….
“Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until you leave. 12 When you enter the house, greet the household. 13 If the house is deserving, let the peace you wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from you return upon you. 14 Wherever anyone does not receive you or listen to your words, on going out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I say to you, it will be more endurable for the land of Sodʹom and Go·morʹrah on Judgment Day than for that city.”

This was a search and rescue mission….they were to seek out the deserving ones, allowing God to determine by his spirit who was deserving and who was not. The deserving ones (in God’s eyes, not the eyes of the disciples) were the ones who accepted these disciples hospitably and invited them to impart their message. God is the one who “draws” people to his truth. (John 6:44) No one can come to the son without an invitation from his Father. (John 6:65)

So you see it’s not us who determine if someone is worthy…..it is God who does that…..he is searching for those who are searching for him.

I would say that we have no idea what is going on in a person's life, or how we might fit in with what God is doing.
If all we can think about is "going for the sale" they will see right through that. It's not our job to save anyone.

This is so true…..which is why God sends his servants “again and again”….
Jeremiah 25:4
”And Jehovah sent all his servants the prophets to you, sending them again and again, but you would not listen or incline your ear to hear.”
He gives everyone ample opportunity, but most will not accept the truth, (Matt 7:13-14) as it requires something from them that they are not willing to give.…or to give up.

I want to project what I view as God's attitude toward humankind. He loves and cares for everyone.
He doesn't view anyone as "undeserving" of his love.

That is true….no one is undeserving of God’s love….but on the other hand, his justice is not overpowered by his love. These are in perfect balance along with his wisdom. Sentiment has no place in God’s administration of justice.

If he gives all the opportunity to come to him, and to obey his reasonable commands, those who fail to do so after sometimes many years of refusing to listen, will like those in the days of Noah, they will come to regret their decision. (Matt 24:37-39)

We are in “the time of the end” when God will send his judge to hold an accounting with the people to whom his servants have preached for decades but it fell on deaf ears….even those who claimed to be Christians but who never fully obeyed Christ’s teachings…..they will offer their excuses on that day, but they will be rejected. (Matt 7:21-23)

If we really want to see a solution to why the world hates us, that would be it.
They hate us because we hate them. We are the ones "undeserving" of their love.

If we hate the people we preach to, then why would we spend time trying to make disciples of them? Using our own time to do the work assigned by Jesus himself, is an act of love…..love for God and his Christ and also love for our fellow man. It is our only assignment…..to make disciples of people of all nations…bringing them into one universal family of faithful ones, joining our heavenly brothers in praising our God for what he is about to do to this wicked world, exercising his perfect justice. (Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14; Matt 6:9-10)
This can only happen if the Lord’s Prayer is answered.

 

[Skovand]

I mean it’s true. In a world that celebrates power and wealth when you push for the marginalized to be upheld with honor and love the world grows angry. When you fight for everyone to be able to live happily and well, paying their bills despite their shortcomings the world gets angry. When you fight for women to have a right to life the life they want, to be free the world wants to push them back into a simple role. The world very much wants to create a class system that prioritizes those with wealth and power and when you stand up for someone like an immigrant here the world just wants to push them back out. The world especially gets mad when you want to defend the environment and climate against the toxicity of modern consumerism. I know God is waiting the day no more animals have to die and the lion and lamb , and human, lays together in peace.