Jesus never said he was God Almighty

[APAK]

Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

No, of course not Rollo. You know from my words I cannot be anything of the kind. You know what the JWs believe in right..I not tagged...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

No, of course not Rollo. You know from my words I cannot be anything of the kind. You know what the JWs believe in right..I not tagged...

Is the Holy Spirit God?

 

[GodsGrace]

Just got back in and answered Rollo..
Do you actually worship Jesus or God? Jesus was just a man if that is astonishing to you with a big difference. He was the son of God and is our Lord and Savior. Yes he was once a man and was born different from any man. He has the spirit of his Father in his heart from conception. So if you are trying to paint a 'mere man' picture around my head it will not work. He was a spirit -led human from the start. You know I'll explained this to others many, many times and they still don't get it or don't want to. They don't get his Baptism as well...not my problem..
I worship God and bow down to my Lord as the last Adam and the first of the new creation, as the King of the Kingdom of God: there is a difference and it must be understood..
stop here....

APAK

Christianity states that Jesus is part of the Trinity.
The Trinity consists of three person's in one Good.
Each with their own work to do, but all of one nature.

And as to John 1:1, I know a theologian that taught koine Greek and reads the Bible in Greek., The NT.
John 1:1 states that Jesus, the Word of Logos, was with God from the beginning. This is because Jesus is not a created being. He was God, just as John says.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, of course not Rollo. You know from my words I cannot be anything of the kind. You know what the JWs believe in right..I not tagged...

They believe what you believe.

 

[epostle1]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

Jesus was not conceived, He was incarnated. Big difference.
Constantine was present at the Council of Nicae as a secular or temporal ruler, he had absolutely no spiritual authority and made no votes.

 

[APAK]

They believe what you believe.

Look GodsGrace: I know you might feel smug as you can blurt out anything without reprisal. If I could confront you face to face I would have at least the pleasure of calling you out and giving you my mind. I have never been a JW and please do not tag me as one. What possesses you to try and take my words and twist them and trample on them. What is your angle anyway?

You lie because JWs believe in an actual pre-existing agent of God. I do not.

You lie because JWs believe the same usage of ‘word’ and call it a god not God. I don’t even buy into the altered meaning of the term logos, let alone making it a ‘god.’

You lie because JWs believe in so-called ‘free’-will. Something you share with them. I do not.

Find someone else to gossip and lie about. Keep me out of your dishonest conversations in the future.

As for your theologian, there is NOTHING in your statements that provide any enlightened new evidence. You have just parroted John 1:1-2 and gave it the classic creative meaning that is not actually based on scripture.

There is no explanation you can ever give why the Greek word logos was uniquely changed to a person called Jesus and only in these two portions of scripture. That should be your challenge to discover this truth.

I gather you must be a carnal believer judging from your responses to me

APAK

 

[APAK]

Jesus was not conceived, He was incarnated. Big difference.

Yes, it is born out of the early writers and their beliefs. I understand your thoughts very well. That does make it a big difference.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

Is the Holy Spirit God?

Rollo: I will give you YOUR answer and then what? Are you really interested in what I believe? Or are we trying to find 'holes' in my words to fire back at me in a repetitive manner?

God is spirit and it is the spirit of God that provided the spirit of Christ to me and is 'working' in my heart. Yes, it is by definition, Holy - set apart and glorious, for Gods unique purposes.

Look. let me cut to the chase: I do not believe in the trinity belief model as I've said already on several occasions. There is an additional, redundant Holy spirit in the triad model. The Father has the SAME Holy spirit already. There are not two Holy spirits roaming around....it is ridiculous. According to the Bible I read, there is one God with his own intrinsic holy spirit and one Jesus the Christ as out Lord and Savior. Why make it complicated and confusing.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Naomi25]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

APAK. I have read your OP, and your replies to the answers of others. And it seems to me that you have it "all sorted". In that...it doesn't really matter what verses we post or show that say that Christ is, in fact, God. You have pre-empted that by saying that lies have been fabricated right from the start to cover this. You excuse away the real meanings of texts so they don't matter at all. You have...effectively, started a thread that leaves no one a leg to stand on in reply. This is your opinion...that Jesus is not God. That wondrous lies were concocted and weaved so that even our holy book is now corrupted, and only you can interpret these passages correctly.
I don't mean any of this harshly...buy honestly...do I have it at all wrong? Could I post anything, any verse that you would not stamp on as "misunderstood"? Could I in any way explain that the phrase "I AM" is so much more than what you have explained it to be without being dismissed by you? I think not, so I don't think I'll waste my time. You clearly have a view, and I don't think you are here to discuss it and learn, but promulgate it. Sorry.

 

[APAK]

APAK. I have read your OP, and your replies to the answers of others. And it seems to me that you have it "all sorted". In that...it doesn't really matter what verses we post or show that say that Christ is, in fact, God. You have pre-empted that by saying that lies have been fabricated right from the start to cover this. You excuse away the real meanings of texts so they don't matter at all. You have...effectively, started a thread that leaves no one a leg to stand on in reply. This is your opinion...that Jesus is not God. That wondrous lies were concocted and weaved so that even our holy book is now corrupted, and only you can interpret these passages correctly.
I don't mean any of this harshly...buy honestly...do I have it at all wrong? Could I post anything, any verse that you would not stamp on as "misunderstood"? Could I in any way explain that the phrase "I AM" is so much more than what you have explained it to be without being dismissed by you? I think not, so I don't think I'll waste my time. You clearly have a view, and I don't think you are here to discuss it and learn, but promulgate it. Sorry.

Naomi:
Thanks for your answer. You can reply all you want. I won't bite you or anyone else. If you knew me you would know this already. I just do not want a post send to me that is solely geared to provoking or eliciting an emotional response. If you are serious as I am I will now discuss the 'I AM' expression with you. Let me know. I don't care if it takes 100 posts or more. You will get my undivided attention throughout. You can trust me on it.

Yes my post is designed as a preaching OP for reasons that might be obvious to you considering the topic. YOU cannot be too wishy-washy on such a pivotal topic. You HAVE TO come out showing some of your cards. No choice if you are being honest!

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Naomi25]

Naomi:
Thanks for your answer. You can reply all you want. I won't bite you or anyone else. If you knew me you would know this already. I just do not want a post send to me that is solely geared to provoking or eliciting an emotional response. If you are serious as I am I will now discuss the 'I AM' expression with you. Let me know. I don't care if it takes 100 posts or more. You will get my undivided attention throughout. You can trust me on it.

Yes my post is designed as a preaching OP for reasons that might be obvious to you considering the topic. YOU cannot be too wishy-washy on such a pivotal topic. You HAVE TO come out showing some of your cards. No choice if you are being honest!

Bless you,

APAK

Ok. I respect all that. I can't get into a long post right now, but let me just ask you about this:

It is one thing to explain away the "I am" statements, or the greetings of Paul, or the "Father and I are one" statement, or the real reasons the Jews attempted to stone Jesus. But what about them all together? What about when you take a step back and look at the bigger picture they, and the doctrines they build, paint? I believe that you cannot...or, at least, should not, dismiss the number of times Jesus is telling you who he is.

That's the bigger picture. But having said that, I believe the smaller ones cannot be explained away. Without going into it in depth (haven't the time tonight), any, and every Jew who knew his history and Torah, would have immediately recognized that Jesus' "I AM" statement was directly repeating God's statement to Moses at the burning bush.

The other thought I have is that if we are to believe God when he says that he is 'one' (Deut 6:4), then we also must take notice when Jesus uses that same phrase in John 10:30..."I and the Father are one."

Trying to dismiss these things as common expressions and therefore coincidences does not do sound exegesis any favors. Especially when talking about Jesus, especially when putting everything together.

 

[GodsGrace]

Look GodsGrace: I know you might feel smug as you can blurt out anything without reprisal. If I could confront you face to face I would have at least the pleasure of calling you out and giving you my mind. I have never been a JW and please do not tag me as one. What possesses you to try and take my words and twist them and trample on them. What is your angle anyway?

You lie because JWs believe in an actual pre-existing agent of God. I do not.

You lie because JWs believe the same usage of ‘word’ and call it a god not God. I don’t even buy into the altered meaning of the term logos, let alone making it a ‘god.’

You lie because JWs believe in so-called ‘free’-will. Something you share with them. I do not.

Find someone else to gossip and lie about. Keep me out of your dishonest conversations in the future.

As for your theologian, there is NOTHING in your statements that provide any enlightened new evidence. You have just parroted John 1:1-2 and gave it the classic creative meaning that is not actually based on scripture.

There is no explanation you can ever give why the Greek word logos was uniquely changed to a person called Jesus and only in these two portions of scripture. That should be your challenge to discover this truth.

I gather you must be a carnal believer judging from your responses to me

APAK

Hi Apak,
I don't feel smug because I'm hiding behind a computer. I'm rather a quiet person but very passionate about my beliefs -- I'd tell you the same things in person that I do here. And you did give me quite a reprisal! I'm shocked, TTYTT. I don't understand why. I didn't say you were a JW, I said you believe as they do. They come to my door and tell me Jesus is the son of God. Not the Son of God. You seem to me to be saying the same thing.

Which words of yours did I trample? I'm not in the habit of putting words in people's mouth or trampling -- I do stand on my beliefs. And please don't call me a liar unless I specifically tell a lie. Speak about putting words in your mouth, you're trampling on my good reputation. Do not bear false witness.

There is nothing new to present in John 1:1.
In the beginning was THE WORD.
And the WORD was with God,
and the WORD WAS GOD.
John goes on to speak about Jesus. He is clearly meaning Jesus as the Word of God. If you DID believe in the Trinity, you'd know that the Word of God could be represented as His thought, or the Word He spoke. The Holy Spirit could be represented as the breath of God. There are many different ideas to express the Trinity.

I'll tell you that, as I've said, there's another poster here that believes as you do.
I've known him for about two years and we've had many discussions and I understand what you are putting forth. I've thought about this a lot and gone through different scripture.

@Naomi25 has put forth some excellent ideas and I won't repeat.

Now, YOU are upset because I said you believe as a JW does.
And it got you all upset.
YOU are calling me a carnal Christian and you don't even know me.
How's that for hypocrisy?

There is but one God.
I and the Father are One.

Say I AM sent you.
Before Abraham was born, I AM.
I AM the Almighty.

 

[101G]

Did Jesus speak and claim he was divine, let alone God Almighty? A clear resounding No! This something to ponder over.

Jesus said in plain view he was the son of man and never a divine being.

Can we believe scripture or not, or shall we believe in several noted early writers that provided their own opinions and concluded for Jesus Christ, that he was not only divine, but also God himself? Is there a dilemma here?

These early writers evidently had a real impact into the 4th century when Constantine and the bishops voted that Jesus was indeed God and divine?

Image you are a visitor from Mars with much more intellect and led by the spirit of God. You lay all this data out in front of you to search for the truth of Jesus the Lord and Savior from Earth. Would you conclude and side with these mentioned early writers or the God-breathed words of God?

Is it that most people, including these early writers wanted to believe that for Jesus to succeed n his mission on earth and never sin he MUST HAVE BEEN GOD and then is GOD TODAY, even though it does not make any sense at all. Is Jesus in heaven today God Almighty or not? We cannot change our minds if we said he was GOD on earth and then say he is not now. He is at the right side of God Almighty is he not? So how do we reconcile this apparent dilemma?

Is this logical scriptural thinking?

Once a lie or err is introduced even well-intentioned, it grows with more forced errors to support the base lie.

My thinking and logic is, it went down as at least a six-layered structure of errors with a lot of frosting built on sand:

1. The early writers were in error about Jesus and gave their personal opinions about what they thought Jesus was, his nature. Once this error gained momentum it eventually gained official approval as fact, especially by the 4th century.

Since then, it (Jesus = God) had to be defended with a vengeance for the credibility of the entire fledgling religious movement.

2. So, the supporters of this err had to invent the concept of incarnation to say God birthed himself into a human being. A wild concept. Sounds pagan.

3. Then the concept of hypostasis was invented to now say Jesus was both divine and human, the fusing of two natures as one spirit.

Now they had to glue it somehow to scripture to give it the appearance as truth.

4. They had to find some part of scripture as its touchstone of their newly acquired lie. They forced a new meaning into John 1:1-2 and the FIRST part of John 1:14 to add a new secondary meaning for the Greek word ‘logos.’ In all scripture ‘logos’ has one consistent meaning: it has always meant a kind of plan, logic, or purpose and never a person, let alone Jesus. Check it out for yourself. Yes, Jesus is called the ‘word of God’ in a couple of places in scripture, although this simply means he was the instrument to execute and complete the ‘plan’ logos of salvation originated by God.

5. Then, because of this third tiered lie, they had to now say Jesus preexisted at the beginning of time, I guess.

6. Then because of the first 5 structured lies, more lies in the form of many, many writings and sermons are still finishing this structure today. They are just window dressings composed of many cherry-picked scriptures and blind interpretations to clue the entire structure together and make it look more credible, enticing and pleasing to the hears and eyes.

The structure of the lie that Jesus = God will all coming crashing down all in good time. It will not stand because it does not hold up as truth. It is a profound and brazen lie.

Jesus was the only born believer in God because God Almighty really conceived him, with Mary. God was surely with him and thus us! That is what Emmanuel means by the way. It does not naively mean Jesus = God, as most probably the early writer thought.

Jesu was the last Adam and the first of the new creation of believers of God. Why do you think the spirit of Christ and truth was given to us? Do you think the spirit of Christ would be given to us if Jesus = God? Not! We are conforming to the image of Christ not God Almighty. It is impossible to confirm to the exact image of God! Jesus was the closest in his power and life. Jesus is the closest to God’s power in heaven. God Almighty had to bring the spirit of Christ to us. Christ could not do it alone. He ‘rode down’/used the spirit of God to get to our human hearts.

We as believers partake of the divine nature OF GOD ONLY, during our lives, THROUGH the spirit of Christ that already has divinity OF GOD in him. Jesus partakes of the spirit of DIVINITY today, so that we can partake of the same spirit of DIVINITY THROUGH him only. There is no other way. The source of divinity is and has always been from God Almighty, not Jesus. Jesus is the 1st layer user of the spiritual power of God. We as believers are the 2nd layer users, drawing off this same spiritual power through Christ.

A decent analogy is like the main grid and source of power is God Almighty. Jesus is the 1st layer of power manipulation as the step-down transformer system on the poles or on the ground to our homes. We are the home users, the users of the 2nd layer of power manipulation, drawing power off these transformers.

Jesus partook of the divinity and nature of the spirit of God since he was conceived, and then as the Christ, he possessed the ‘full’ suit of power of God after his baptism.

This is how Jesus, the Christ never sinned and completed his mission, with the power of God Almighty. He could not have succeeded without his Father, God Almighty.

People of little faith is apparently not a dated phenomenon.

What say you?


Peace and love out!

(Deu 6:4) “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
(Deu 6:5) You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
(Deu 6:6) And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. (ALL ESV)


Bless you,

APAK

GINOLJC, addressing the OP only. I have a question for you. Did God, the Father, since it's one God, Raised the Body of the Lord Jesus up from death YES or No.

thanks in advance for your Answer.

PCY

 

[APAK]

Ok. I respect all that. I can't get into a long post right now, but let me just ask you about this:

It is one thing to explain away the "I am" statements, or the greetings of Paul, or the "Father and I are one" statement, or the real reasons the Jews attempted to stone Jesus. But what about them all together? What about when you take a step back and look at the bigger picture they, and the doctrines they build, paint? I believe that you cannot...or, at least, should not, dismiss the number of times Jesus is telling you who he is.

That's the bigger picture. But having said that, I believe the smaller ones cannot be explained away. Without going into it in depth (haven't the time tonight), any, and every Jew who knew his history and Torah, would have immediately recognized that Jesus' "I AM" statement was directly repeating God's statement to Moses at the burning bush.

The other thought I have is that if we are to believe God when he says that he is 'one' (Deut 6:4), then we also must take notice when Jesus uses that same phrase in John 10:30..."I and the Father are one."

Trying to dismiss these things as common expressions and therefore coincidences does not do sound exegesis any favors. Especially when talking about Jesus, especially when putting everything together.

Naomi: Here's a start of a conversation I hope will be edifying for both of us.

1/1+

Introduction:

I likewise do have loads of time although I’m happy to listen and learn anything I can gleam from you or waht I may find along the way…

I just want to make the statement and I guess it would go to all these types of scripture inquiries that if the Trinity concept was never born we most probably would not be having this type of discussion at all.

There would not be any controversy.

First things first. The Hebrew and Greek original manuscripts were written in capital letter with no space or any punctuation whatsoever. Of course, this goes for any scripture under study. Now the mostly Trinitarian translators of the bible took liberty to capitalize and punctuate or not to capitalize or punctuate their letters and sentence they formed, as they saw fit. So, we must be careful and keep this always in our mind when we discuss any scripture.

Not only that, the translators also chose what words they would use from the original language or transitional languages. So, this I am could or should have been I am he etc. We must also understand there was some manipulation and bias in what we as English readers saw in their final product.

The words ‘I AM’ or ‘I am’ or ‘I am he/she’ or ‘it is me’ or ‘I am the one’ or ‘it was me’….verb…

Greek for ‘I am’ is ‘ego eimi ‘

Now Jesus used this ‘I am’ translated from Greek to Latin to English many times. Some folks have even established because of this fact, that it must indicate or convey that Jesus is saying I am God Almighty. There is no basis for saying this at all. Of course, if we want to force a specific outcome in favor of this subjective data point or result we will believe it to be true all the time. It is like building a case out of conjecture rather than ‘in plain view’ facts.

..I will stop here for now and let you have a chance to respond, at your convenience....

APAK

 

[101G]

@APAK
maybe you missed my question, Did God, the Father, since it's one God, Raised the Body of the Lord Jesus up from death YES or No.

this will clear up the question if Jesus said that he is God.

PCY.

 

[bbyrd009]

If you are denying this, then you are admitting you don't understand Christianity.

ah ok, Rollo's Rules now lol

"why do you call Me good?"

 

[lforrest]

ah ok, Rollo's Rules now lol

"why do you call Me good?"

So is Jesus inconsistent between Mark 10:18 and Matthew 12:35?

I doubt he is inconsistent, but here is where the differences will become evident in what we believe. In Mark 10:18 Jesus was responding to the unbelief of the rich young man in kind. He actually is a good man but concealed it, at the time.

In accordance with Matthew 12:35 would you call jesus a good man? Do you believe he was without sin? Were his teachings good? Even his enemies in this day can not dispute his integrity.

According to Romans 5:7 perhaps others can be good? But it seems to be illuding to dieing for Jesus. If anyone else is good it is because of the Spirit of God living in them. Because no one is good but God alone.

 

[APAK]

@APAK
maybe you missed my question, Did God, the Father, since it's one God, Raised the Body of the Lord Jesus up from death YES or No.

this will clear up the question if Jesus said that he is God.

PCY.

Just got back into the house again...here's my answer 101G, it is clearly the spirit of God (YES) although I expect it is not in the same as the official trinity response.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[APAK]

ah ok, Rollo's Rules now lol

"why do you call Me good?"

Thanks for your consideration and input on this most sensitive 'holy ground' subject. Yes, I'm back...;)

 

[APAK]

Just got back into the house again...here's my answer 101G, it is clearly the spirit of God (YES) although I expect it is not in the same as the official trinity response.

Bless you,

APAK

@101G .....want to add a few more words associated with my last answer to you....

(Rom 6:4) We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
(Rom 8:11) If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. (ALL ESV)

Now, it is the spirit of God Almighty or his Father if you prefer, that raised Jesus’ body from the dead, and then to immortality.

It is also necessary to make clear as my OP attempted to address, that this same spirit of God gave a believer the knowledge of the spirit of Christ that we are conforming to in our daily spiritual walk.

We now have the full personality of Christ, to know him completely. Our closely knitted duo, level of faith and carnal nature bias, at times is our only hindrance and anchor in realizing this fully in our lives.

So as the Spirit of God gave Jesus the knowledge and truth to understand him, the same spirit provided us the knowledge to know Christ in our lives. Now technically this spirit of knowledge and truth we have attained is not the same as what Jesus possessed or possesses today. Jesus’ glory and power are always higher than ours, even when we are transformed as Jesus someday - by the same spirit of God Almighty.

Bless you,

APAK