Jesus Is Our Truth, Reward, And Faithfulness So We Can Lie, Steal, and Fornicate?

[Gregory]

my mistake. ignore

 

[Gregory]

"If He is indeed our spiritual rest, we ought to evidence that by literally resting on the seventh day Sabbath day."

So, the law of the sabbath was a shadow of Christ's rest, and we are to literally rest in Christ by obeying the law of the sabbath.

I am free from the law of meats and drinks and sabbath days, and I rejoice in my liberty by staying in the shadows.

For saturday sabbath keepers, saturday is the only day they are not free.

You are making judgements that are simply not true for most Christians. How dare you say that for Saturday sabbath keepers, saturday is the only day they are not free. Who are you to judge whether they are free or not.

If they choose to be in church, worshipping their God, instead of on a boat on a lake fishing, does that mean they are not free. Of course not.

Don't judge others from your own experience.

 

[Gregory]

So, if I think about committing work on a Sabbath day, then I have committed work in my heart.

You seem bitter about the Sabbath day. What is your problem? Did your father force you to go to church every Saturday or Sunday?

 

[post]

Not sure what you are trying to say.

In a nutshell, that if we have truly entered His rest then working at a job, serving an employer or customers over the weekend would be worship for us, and those boasting in how they leave their boss understaffed despite his pleading are doing more harm than good to their witness, not understanding the scripture.

 

[Gregory]

In a nutshell, that if we have truly entered His rest then working at a job, serving an employer or customers over the weekend would be worship for us, and those boasting in how they leave their boss understaffed despite his pleading are doing more harm than good to their witness, not understanding the scripture.

It really sounds like a way to get out of going to church and then doing ahything you wish on the Lords Day.

You can work on your job and still worship.
You can be snow or water skiing and still worship.
You can be at the movies or at a ballgame and still worship.

If you have truely entered into his rest, you can do anything on the Sabbath and still be worshipping. What a religion.[/QUOTE]

 

[CharismaticLady]

IMO it's pretty ugly if i say "my heathen friend is always asking me for help on saturday but i refuse because 'sabbath'"

That's not what he's saying and you should know that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

In a nutshell, that if we have truly entered His rest then working at a job, serving an employer or customers over the weekend would be worship for us, and those boasting in how they leave their boss understaffed despite his pleading are doing more harm than good to their witness, not understanding the scripture.

Your judgment of him is rebuked by Paul in Romans 14. Watch your tone.

 

[post]

That's not what he's saying and you should know that.

it is exactly what Mssr. Phone is saying, and you should know that. he is the one who said, "my heathen boss" - that's not an appellation that post imagined.

let's talk about Christ's commandment

whosoever will compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
(Matthew 5:41, 1560 GNV)

whoever shall impress thee one mile, go with him two
(Matthew 5:41, 1862 YLT)​

that word 'compel' or 'impress' is ἀγγαρεύσει (angareusei). it's only found here, in Matthew 27:32 & Mark 15:21. in those other two places it's talking about Roman soldiers pressing Simon of Cyrene into service to bear his cross & follow Christ to where He chose to lay down His life.
this is what being 'compelled to go a mile' is said to mean: a roman soldier could stop you and force you to carry his baggage & armament for one or two Roman miles. under Roman occupation, any random Jew could be 'pressed into service' as a slave to a "heathen" ((as Mssr. Phone names them)).

does God say do twice what someone asks of you, 'except on sabbath - then do nothing' ?
is God not working?

let's look at the context:

Ye heard that it was said: Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth; but I -- I say to you, not to resist the evil, but whoever shall slap thee on thy right cheek, turn to him also the other; and whoever is willing to take thee to law, and thy coat to take -- suffer to him also the cloak, and whoever shall impress thee one mile, go with him two; to him who is asking of thee be giving, and him who is willing to borrow from thee thou mayest not turn away.
(Matthew 5:38-42, YLT)​

so this is about a contrast between Christ's new commandment ((John 13:34-35, Hebrews 8:13)) and the law of the covenant at Horeb which said, an eye for an eye. so this is about John 1:17 - the law came through Moses but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
so what He's saying is the truth, and it is contrasted with the law. He is presenting Himself as the 'One like Moses' ((Deuteronomy 18:15)) Whose word is law: and He says, do not resist when you are offended. He says give to a thief twice what he tries to steal. He says if you are pressed into service, serve twice as much as you are asked to serve for. He, the LORD God, says do not say no when someone asks you, but say yes. do not turn away from someone when they want to borrow your time.

does God say refuse the one who asks of you on sabbath? does God say resist everyone who offends you on sabbath? does God say steal from a thief on sabbath? does God say do not serve anyone on sabbath?

what do you imagine you are doing on sabbath? are you serving God? Mssr. Phone claims to be -- he boasts in it: he boasts in refusing the one who asks, resisting when offended, rebelling against the one he agreed to serve, and doesn't stop there, but goes beyond that -- insulting his earthly master & publicly debasing his character, and bragging about his wages!
but what does serving God look like, on the other hand, according to Matthew 5:38-42?
Christ is God -- He is telling you how to serve Him here. is sabbath the day to serve yourself, or to serve God?

so pretend it's sabbath as you read this.
pretend you're planning to *especially* do what God tells you to do on this special day.
pretend someone says, i need your help; will you work for me today?
pretend you know what Christ says.
is your answer yes or no?

 

[post]

Your judgment of him is rebuked by Paul in Romans 14. Watch your tone.

why don't you defend his boss, whom he called a "heathen" ?
why does he debase his own employer's name? because his boss considers all days alike?

you either do not understand Romans 14 or you do not understand the situation.
i'm not telling him not to keep sabbath. i remember sabbath - why would i be judging someone for considering a certain day holy?
i am telling him that he is not keeping sabbath as God taught us it is to be kept: and that is Colossians 3. our Lord calls us to teach and admonish one another.

 

[post]

It really sounds like a way to get out of going to church and then doing ahything you wish on the Lords Day.

You can work on your job and still worship.
You can be snow or water skiing and still worship.
You can be at the movies or at a ballgame and still worship.

If you have truely entered into his rest, you can do anything on the Sabbath and still be worshipping. What a religion.

what, you only worship God on a certain mountain at a certain time for 40 minutes a week? and that's superior in righteousness to giving your whole life as a living sacrifice, making yourself the servant of all who ask of you? would you help someone push a broken down van off the road if it meant being late to meet your friends for lunch after what you call 'service' ?
have you read John 4? do you think 'in spirit and in truth' means the music has to be groovy?

here is my position: refusing to help the person you work for 'because sabbath' ain't something to boast about. not according to scripture.

ceasing from your own works ((Hebrews 4:10)) is doing someone else's work. God says doing His work is not refusing those who ask you, in fact, God's work is doing more than you're asked.

 

[post]

do we figure that if God asks us to cease from working one day, we should 'go the extra mile' and refuse to work every day?

ha!

 

[atpollard]

.

do we figure that if God asks us to cease from working one day, we should 'go the extra mile' and refuse to work every day?

ha!

No, just Saturday and Sunday. ;)

 

[Phoneman777]

Hello @Phoneman777,

The Lord Jesus Christ is God's only Begotten Son: Son of God and Son of Man. The Archangel Michael is described as 'a great prince' (Dan 10:13;12:1; Jude 1:9; Revelation 12:7) who 'stands' for the People of Israel. They are not one and the same.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

If Michael is the "Great Prince", and Messiah is merely "the Prince"...Houston, we have a problem.;)

 

[Phoneman777]

Like I said in the other chatroom

I have turned you very to God, your unrepentant

 

[Phoneman777]

.

No, just Saturday and Sunday. ;)

Only problem with that is God has already commanded us to work the first six days - and He's not going to contradict Himself with making Sunday a "holy" day of rest - that's why the apostate papal church had to do it, and the entire Christian world is following "a multitude to do evil".

Mankind can't make anything holy...they can only "keep" holy that which God declares holy, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman777]

But James is not talking about the Sabbath issue at all. In fact, He isn't even advocating keeping the Ten Commandments. He is only using it as an example, not that it is still in effect, but only the rule of breaking one, you are guilty of all. Notice it is the royal law about our neighbor which is part of what I call the eternal law of LOVE GOD/LOVE NEIGHBOR that shows the deeper nuances to love. And, of course, by keeping the New Covenant law we go further, not lesser into righteousness. So we are not breaking any of the 10C, not even the Sabbath because we keep the true substance of the Sabbath, rest in the Lord of the Sabbath.

But in this case it is on partiality and mercy, not in the 10C. The 10C is the ministry of death as I showed you in 2 Cor. 3:6-11. James 2:12 repeats what the New Covenant law is called. The Law of Liberty. It is much stricter and deeper than the shallow 10C, so we cannot even get away with hate or being partial to the rich over the poor, or the black over the white or vice versa.

8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Anyone reading James with their eyes open can see that the context of the "Law of Liberty" and the "Royal Law" are the Ten Commandments, by virtue of his mention of "kill" and "adultery".

Oh, yes, some argue James means to say "we should give up trying to keep any of them, seeing that if we break on, we're guilty of all" -- which is light years from the truth.

James' words strike at the very heart of the false doctrine of OSAS, saying that if we think we're getting into heaven by willful disregard of what Jesus calls any "least commandment", we've got another thing coming: instead, he tells us we need to prepare to be judged by the Ten Commandmetns, which means being careful not to be found in violation of them, right or wrong?

 

[Phoneman777]

Well in Galatia they were Paul's number one enemy, but I doubt they were in Corinth. Corinth didn't have a problem with legalism but with licentiousness

Well Paul said the commandments written in stone were done away with. If you find that funny- that is on you!

And you reaching a false conclusion about us not being righteous because teh bible tells us that Jesus fulfilled all the righteouosness of the law is also on you.

Jesus is my righteousneswss. and the righteous deeds I do are because of Christ in me! My flesh or human nature can produce nothing righteous --ever.

Yes, not everywhere was the same problem, but was the most prevalent problem, for it seems Paul was constantly preoccupied with telling people the grace of Jesus was sufficient. But, when Paul encountered the Licentious, he would remind them, "He that doeth righteousness IS righteous."

 

[Phoneman777]

There is no such distinction in the law of Moses.

Here is Biblically, irrefutable proof for why the Moral and the Mosaic are separate and distinct:

Moral Law Distinct From The Mosaic Law​

*The Mosaic Law was written by the hand of Moses, written on scrolls, placed outside the Ark, and was against them by virtue of the penalties and curses contained therein (Deuteronomy 31:24-26 KJV)....

...but in contrast, the Ten Commandment Law of God was written with His finger (Exodus 31:18 KJV), on both sides of stone tablets (Exodus 32:15 KJV), placed inside the Ark (Exodus 25:16 KJV), and contained blessings, not curses (Exodus 20:11 KJV; Exodus 20:12 KJV).

*In 2 Kings 21:8 KJV, God promises Israel permanent residence if they keep His Law and the Mosaic law.

*In 2 Chronicles 33:8 KJV, God promises the same if they will obey His Law and the Mosaic Law.

*In Daniel 9:11KJV, he confessed that his people disobeyed the God's Law and the Mosaic Law.

*In Deuteronomy 4:13-14 KJV, Moses says God commanded the people to keep His Law and commanded Moses to give them the Mosaic Law.

*In Leviticus 23:37-38 KJV, God said the annual Feast Day sabbaths of the Jews in the Mosaic Law were "besides" the weekly Sabbaths of the Lord contained in the Ten Commandments.

*In Romans 7:12 KJV, Paul refers to God's Law (identified as such by his reference to the Tenth Commandment in Romans 7:7 KJV) as "holy, just, and good", but refers to the Mosaic Law concerning the Levitical priesthood as a "carnal" commandment in Hebrews 7:16 KJV. If there is only one law, please explain how the same law is "holy, just, good" and "carnal" at the same time.

*The Ten Commandments existed before Mount Sinai: Cain knew murder was wrong; Abraham knew lying was wrong; Abraham also kept God's "charge, commandments, statutes, and laws"; Rachel knew stealing was wrong; Jacob knew idolatry in the form of jewelry was wrong; Joseph knew adultery was wrong; and God chided with the children of Israel in Exodus 16:28 KJV for not keeping "My Laws" because they broke the Sabbath Commandment before they even got anywhere near Mount Sinai in chapter 20.

*Paul says in Galatians 3:19 KJV that the Mosaic Law was "added because of transgression" -- transgression of an already existing law: the Ten Commandments -- "until the Seed should come". When Jesus was crucified, the Mosaic Law was nailed to the Cross with Him (Colossians 2:14-17 KJV) while the Ten Commandments will "stand fast forever and ever" (Psalms 111:7:8 KJV).

 

[Phoneman777]

That is a Satanic lie! You have ZERO proof. Satan is trying to give you a phony savior! Michael is BARELY mentioned in the Bible!

"It is a CAPITAL MISTAKE to theorize before one has data." - Sherlock Holmes

You obviously don't have clue one about this issue.

If there's no Biblical evidence for this, then why was it a commonly accepted teaching by many sincere Christians and taught in authoritative commentaries which line the bookshelves of pastors and teachers today?

 

[Phoneman777]

Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

- Jesus Christ, the visible Image of the invisible LORD God Almighty

​

feel stupid yet?
you look it. Proverbs 12:1

​

Handling an emergency on the Sabbath is not a violation. Teaching people we don't have to keep it will land such an impenitent one in the Lake of Fire with the rest of "the least", and they will get zero mercy, no matter how much they gnash their rebel teeth.