James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[robert derrick]

Notice how Jesus says that the Son of Man shall GIVE unto his listeners the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

The word meat is an archaic English 1600’s word meaning food.

Source:
King James Bible Dictionary - Reference List - Meat
(Note: KingJamesBibleDictionary website has been down lately; And is only accessible via by the WayBackMachine).

Jesus Himself said He is the bread of life.

“And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35).

This is the food (meat) that He is to give to them.

Jesus says that everyone who sees the Son and believes on Him, may have everlasting life.

John 6:40 KJV
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Nothing about works here.

When Jesus said that the work of God is to believe it does not mean that our believing is a work we do. The work of God is from God. The work of God in our believing in Jesus is the result of God the Father drawing us to Jesus (John 6:44). Without this drawing or work from God… we could not believe in Jesus.



You are taking James 2:24 too far again. Nowhere does James refer to Initial Salvation in James 2:24. Paul clearly refers to how we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works in Ephesians 2:8-9. You think this is in reference to man directed works, but Ephesians 2:10 says we are created unto Christ Jesus for good works. Paul is concerned here about how the Ephesian believers HAD been saved (Past tense). They had been quickened (made alive) (Ephesians 2:1). How many times have you been quickened? We are saved by God’s grace like a gift (Ephesians 2:8). How many times do you receive a gift? Just one time, right? So you seem to trivialize or deny Initial Salvation that Paul clearly teaches.

Side Note:

I see the laboring aspect in trying to find the Lord (John 6:27).

Jeremiah 29:13 says,
“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”

The Son of Man shall give them the food (meat) He is the bread of life for them to believe in. This laboring could also be a reference to John 6:45 whereby those Jews who have learned of the Father (Jews who honestly followed and studied God’s Word) will be drawn by the Father to Jesus (Whereby they would believe in Him as their Savior). So this laboring here is not really initial salvation but a seeking to find the Lord or the Messiah (Savior). Initial Salvation happens when a person believes in Jesus for everlasting life. This is simply what the Bible plainly teaches but you distort it to make “belief” out to be a “work.” We are initially saved by God’s grace without works, and ONLY THEN can we walk in the work of God (and not before). You are putting the cart before the horse, my friend. You are denying salvation by God’s grace through faith without works.

Your personalized faith without works of His righteousness are still dead. No matter how many words and fair speeches you've learned to say.

Jesus gives of His meat, bread, flesh, and blood, but no man receives of Him, until first obeying Him by eating and drinking what we are given.

Eating and drinking is only by doing, not by seeing and thinking about it: agreeing with God is useless without obeying God.

It is the same with the power of God given to them that receive Him to become His sons: Only by doing His will does His mighty power operate and work within the heart and through the body.

When Jesus said that the work of God is to believe it does not mean that our believing is a work we do.

And that work begins within the heart to wash within the platter and purify the heart, that the outside by be clean in deed and in truth.

Your error is by carnal mindedness: you only see the outside of the body pertaining to works, and not the inside of the heart, which is what God sees first and always.

You make carnal humanist difference between faith and works, because faith is only thought to you, and works are only by the body.

The works of God we are justified by, begin within the heart to obey His faith and fight against every lie of the devil and cast down all lust of the world.

Your own faith of hearing and thinking is dead between the ears only: just agreeing with the truth saves no man, nor justifies any hearer, but only them that do the truth shall have everlasting life.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

No man is even coming to God, much less being saved and justified by God, without first doing His word of truth, beginning within the heart:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Your faith alone is dead, and all your self-justifying kings' horses and men will not make it alive: only by doing His law are we justified with God:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Until one repents and ceases to just agree with God, then no man will ever be saved and justified by God.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The works James spoke of was Abraham having physically offered up Isaac by faith from the heart.

Are you trying to distinguish between the working of God in the heart of faith, and the works of God done by faith from the heart?

If so, the only difference between works within the heart and with the body, is that of the Spirit inwardly and that of the body physically.

No man is justified without works of faith bodily, which can be seen by both God and man.

And the faith James spoke of was of that faith that saves souls, not just blesses others.

God judges the heart and searches the heart

out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks

we read of also being justified by our words , by grace , by the blood of Christ by the Spirit, by the resurrection

we know that a man can give money to the poor and hate them in his heart

and when a person is save by the grace of God where Christ dwells in his heart many work will flow from that life but the wirk did not merit the initial salvation and the works are not ceremonial types and shadows to save them. No works saw them but His work on the cross and His working in them . The fruit from a tree comes from a formed tree.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your personalized faith without works of His righteousness are still dead. No matter how many words and fair speeches you've learned to say.

Jesus gives of His meat, bread, flesh, and blood, but no man receives of Him, until first obeying Him by eating and drinking what we are given.

Eating and drinking is only by doing, not by seeing and thinking about it: agreeing with God is useless without obeying God.

It is the same with the power of God given to them that receive Him to become His sons: Only by doing His will does His mighty power operate and work within the heart and through the body.

When Jesus said that the work of God is to believe it does not mean that our believing is a work we do.

And that work begins within the heart to wash within the platter and purify the heart, that the outside by be clean in deed and in truth.

Your error is by carnal mindedness: you only see the outside of the body pertaining to works, and not the inside of the heart, which is what God sees first and always.

You make carnal humanist difference between faith and works, because faith is only thought to you, and works are only by the body.

The works of God we are justified by, begin within the heart to obey His faith and fight against every lie of the devil and cast down all lust of the world.

Your own faith of hearing and thinking is dead between the ears only: just agreeing with the truth saves no man, nor justifies any hearer, but only them that do the truth shall have everlasting life.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

No man is even coming to God, much less being saved and justified by God, without first doing His word of truth, beginning within the heart:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Your faith alone is dead, and all your self-justifying kings' horses and men will not make it alive: only by doing His law are we justified with God:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Until one repents and ceases to just agree with God, then no man will ever be saved and justified by God.

Please know that I don't believe a faith will remain without works. Faith will quickly grow into having good works, putting away sin, keeping oneself unspotted from the world, and in living holy (by the inner working of God doing the good works through a believer). If there is no change in life and a believer is justifying sin and doing nothing for God, they are not saved.

The difference between us is that I recognize an earlier phase to salvation that is purely based upon God's grace without works (Which is what the apostle Paul clearly taught in Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-5, and Romans 11:6).

Proof?

Well, if you don't believe there is no earlier phase of salvation that is purely based upon God's grace without works by the Bible, then you have to say that all babies who die go to Hell because they don't have works. You would also have to say that no Christian should ever bother to preach to anyone about Jesus who is about to die on their hospital beds. Is this what you believe? For I have talked with a Christian in person that I worked with who believes that there is no point to preach to those who are about to die. This is a problem.

Why? Well, if this is the case, then the thief on the cross could not have been saved.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your personalized faith without works of His righteousness are still dead. No matter how many words and fair speeches you've learned to say.

Jesus gives of His meat, bread, flesh, and blood, but no man receives of Him, until first obeying Him by eating and drinking what we are given.

Eating and drinking is only by doing, not by seeing and thinking about it: agreeing with God is useless without obeying God.

It is the same with the power of God given to them that receive Him to become His sons: Only by doing His will does His mighty power operate and work within the heart and through the body.

When Jesus said that the work of God is to believe it does not mean that our believing is a work we do.

And that work begins within the heart to wash within the platter and purify the heart, that the outside by be clean in deed and in truth.

Your error is by carnal mindedness: you only see the outside of the body pertaining to works, and not the inside of the heart, which is what God sees first and always.

You make carnal humanist difference between faith and works, because faith is only thought to you, and works are only by the body.

The works of God we are justified by, begin within the heart to obey His faith and fight against every lie of the devil and cast down all lust of the world.

Your own faith of hearing and thinking is dead between the ears only: just agreeing with the truth saves no man, nor justifies any hearer, but only them that do the truth shall have everlasting life.

But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

No man is even coming to God, much less being saved and justified by God, without first doing His word of truth, beginning within the heart:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Your faith alone is dead, and all your self-justifying kings' horses and men will not make it alive: only by doing His law are we justified with God:

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Until one repents and ceases to just agree with God, then no man will ever be saved and justified by God.

Take for example the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee. The way you speak it makes it sound like there is absolutely no grace whatsoever, and yet that is what we read about in Luke 18:9-14. For how do you explain this parable?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I believe there are two major aspects of salvation a believer needs to be concerned with in this life.

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.” ​

Being saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus as ones Savior is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Being saved by God's grace is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Being saved by God's grace will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For verses on being saved by God's grace, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#2. Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life & A Belief of the Truth.
(The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
This is based on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 (Which is call of the gospel; Note: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 is not the gospel. It is simply the call of the gospel; For the gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

13 “…God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation
through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,..”​

Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. It is a two part intertwined secondary aspect of salvation (Which joins the cord of Initial Salvation or Foundational Salvation in being saved by God’s grace; See note below at the end of this post). Anyways, this secondary aspect of salvation is in two parts. One does not exist without the other (Note: The following is mentioned in order according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14 and it is not stating that one cannot proceed the other or vise versa).

(a). Sanctification of the Spirit to Live a Holy Life is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

(b) A Belief of the Truth is also another secondary synergistic intertwined aspect of salvation for the believer (in addition to Sanctification of the Holy Spirit). We need to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJB). We need to hold to certain correct doctrines or teachings in God’s Word. One example: It is implied that denying bodily resurrection means one’s faith is overthrown (See: 2 Timothy 2:17-18). So we need to study God’s Word (the Holy Bible) and hold to it’s truths. Now, does that mean one is not saved if they don’t know of the bodily resurrection? I don’t believe so. I believe that is what God’s grace is for. But once a key core doctrine of God’s Word is revealed to a believer, they cannot reject it. So a belief of the truth is similar to Sanctification. A Christian must grow in the knowledge of God’s Word and accept it’s beautiful fundamental truths. Does holding to all truths in the Bible save? Well, I don’t think a belief in the Nephilim saves (although it is a truth taught in His Word). But I believe there are other foundational truths we must eventually learn and accept as Christians. The Spirit will guide a believer into all truth within God’s Word.​

Side Note:

(A) Initial Salvation is solely in being saved by God’s grace through faith without works.

(B) Continued Salvation (or the Secondary Aspect of Salvation) is sort of like a three corded rope (or a cord of three strands). This rope involves:

Cord #1. Initial Salvation continuing in our life as one strand of the rope in our ongoing trust in God’s grace as the foundation of our salvation. Without this grace, we would be without any hope and without salvation. For Jesus is our cornerstone or foundation upon which we are ultimately saved.

Cord #2. Sanctification of the Spirit (to live a holy life by God’s power according to His Word) (Living holy by the Spirit involves putting away sin, and doing good works, and in keeping oneself pure and not by justifying sin).

Cord #3. A Belief of the Truth (Which is a continual study and belief of God’s Holy Word known as the Holy Bible).​

For Ecclesiastes 4:12 (GNT) says,
“A rope made of three cords is hard to break.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

 

[kcnalp]

You do know that James was referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide, right?

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

That is the faith James was referring to that requires works; as in leading by example; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James was rebuking the church for sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting their immediate needs of those poor that were about to perish from the element and starvation from the bounty collected at church service. It is the church's faith in God to provide being issued to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor, seeing the church's faith is dead without leading by example.

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the church nor man is not justified nor righteous when sharing faith in God to provide to the poor if the church nor that believer cares to lead by example to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor with what God had provided for them.

It is the church's faith in God to provide that is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide to the poor, will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements or starvation when the church does not care to lead by example.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if needing works, because James was rebuking the church for getting out of helping the poor by callously sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were perishing.

Paul testifies to faith in Jesus Christ in salvation which is without works for why believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the Good News for man.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Don't you know that Jesus is the God of Abraham?

 

[Titus]

God bless brother,

maybe remind him that faith without works is dead is referring to God’s works in believers for God works in us to will and to do and to make us perfect unto every good work Hebrew 13

the works James speaks of come from within from a believing heart where Christ dwells and work just like Christ dwelt in Abraham also (Galatians 3)

Hello,
Can I be saved if I never have any good works?
If I just believe in 1Corinthians 15:1-4?
Believe only but never have any works ever.
Can I be saved?

 

[LoveofTruth]

Hello,
Can I be saved if I never have any good works?
If I just believe in 1Corinthians 15:1-4?
Believe only but never have any works ever.
Can I be saved?

As soon as you repent and believe the gospel Christ dwells in your heart by faith and he is immediately working.you are now considered the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. But having a new nature and in Christ we walk in the new man and live and move in the newness of life. These works that flow from the new creation, in Christ( the rule of our faith abs practice), are called good works because He empowers us reads and makes us perfect unto every good work.

and while we can say that the person in Christ died good works the works give glory to God. Others see our good work and glorify our Father in heaven.

so while we say they are our works are not what save us. We do say that God’s work on the cross and in our daily lives as we abide in Christ are the live we walk in does save us. But we could not walk in Christ in those good works unless we are saved in the life and power of the Spirit.
We are saved by Christ work on the cross without us and his work in us by the new birth inside us. We continue to be saved if we abide in him and walk in the light of Christ and continue in the faith and have God working in us. These works are needed. Who can say that God’s work in us and His work on the cross is not needed for salvation? But we access that power and life through faith .
Remember Jesus said that without him we can do nothing. All glory to God.

But definitely we do not (as some may say they do) imply that unbelievers can merit grace by a good work or anything done in their old man. We also do not merit grace as we walk in the grace. All that happens within us is through faith by faith we enter into this grace and by grace are we saved through faith. The grace of Christ working g in us through faith allows the love of God to be shed abroad in our heart. Through faith we have understanding, revelation, power, obedience, fruit etc . Our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God our faith works by live abs that live of God is shed abroad in our heart by the Holt Ghost.
But what some mean by world is a meritous thing that we do that is a ceremony or a ordinance etc they seem to thing they can add to the saving gospel works of the flesh or the law or ritual or sacraments (as they call them), or or sabbaths etc. we come to God as wretched dinners we have no good works to merit anything only dead works that we repent of Hebrews6:1)

 

[Titus]

As soon as you repent and believe the gospel Christ dwells in your heart by faith and he is immediately working.you are now considered the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus. But having a new nature and in Christ we walk in the new man and live and move in the newness of life. These works that flow from the new creation, in Christ( the rule of our faith abs practice), are called good works because He empowers us reads and makes us perfect unto every good work.

and while we can say that the person in Christ died good works the works give glory to God. Others see our good work and glorify our Father in heaven.

so while we say they are our works are not what save us. We do say that God’s work on the cross and in our daily lives as we abide in Christ are the live we walk in does save us. But we could not walk in Christ in those good works unless we are saved in the life and power of the Spirit.
We are saved by Christ work on the cross without us and his work in us by the new birth inside us. We continue to be saved if we abide in him and walk in the light of Christ and continue in the faith and have God working in us. These works are needed. Who can say that God’s work in us and His work on the cross is not needed for salvation? But we access that power and life through faith .
Remember Jesus said that without him we can do nothing. All glory to God.

But definitely we do not (as some may say they do) imply that unbelievers can merit grace by a good work or anything done in their old man. We also do not merit grace as we walk in the grace. All that happens within us is through faith by faith we enter into this grace and by grace are we saved through faith. The grace of Christ working g in us through faith allows the love of God to be shed abroad in our heart. Through faith we have understanding, revelation, power, obedience, fruit etc . Our faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God our faith works by live abs that live of God is shed abroad in our heart by the Holt Ghost.
But what some mean by world is a meritous thing that we do that is a ceremony or a ordinance etc they seem to thing they can add to the saving gospel works of the flesh or the law or ritual or sacraments (as they call them), or or sabbaths etc. we come to God as wretched dinners we have no good works to merit anything only dead works that we repent of Hebrews6:1)

Thanks,
Therefore, No works cannot be saved.
Therefore, No one is saved by faith without works ie faith alone

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thanks,
Therefore, No works cannot be saved.
Therefore, No one is saved by faith without works ie faith alone

By faith we access and enter into the grace and works of God not of ourselves or the flesh .so truly we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves.

By faith Christ dwells in our heart then we can “do” all things through Christ. Without him we can do nothing .no works in our self can save us no sere monies or types or sacraments or law. If our faith is alive in Christ there will always be the wirk if Hid that follows and shows forth our faith

Galatians 2: 16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. …20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.’

by grace are we saved through faith so that grace works in us and this only happened abs continues as we abide in faith .the excellency of the power is God not us (2 Cor 4)

 

[LoveofTruth]

Thanks,
Therefore, No works cannot be saved.
Therefore, No one is saved by faith without works ie faith alone

It’s is by grace we are saved not faith alone. By grace are ye saved through faith

but what grace is and how this works in us is a deeper talk and found all through scripture

and

Philippians 2: 13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”

and consider

Hebrews 13: 20, 21. “Now the God if peace…Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.”

 

[Titus]

By faith Christ dwells in our heart then we can “do” all things through Christ. Without him we can do nothing .no works in our self can save us no sere monies or types or sacraments or law. If our faith is alive in Christ there will always be the wirk if Hid that follows and shows forth our faith

I want you to listen closely to your own beliefs on being born again ie how we are saved,

LoveofTruth qoute: "If our faith is ALIVE in Christ there will always be the work."

Now do you see how you define faith that is "alive in Christ" will always have works attached to it?

I agree.
The only faith that can save must be a living faith.
Faith that can save must be alive.

You correctly taught that faith that is alive always, always, always, has works with it.

So, I will ask you my orginal question again.

Can faith that has no works save?
You taught me faith that is alive always will have works.

Therefore faith that is dead, will always be alone!
Faith that is dead will not have works ie faith alone.

So again,
No one is saved by faith without works!

You said yourself that faith that is alive has works,
Faith that is dead must have no works,
Dead faith must be alone.

James 2:20
But do you want to know O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the soul is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If you are saved with faith that has no works.
You are saved by a dead faith!

We both agree that the only faith that is a living faith always has works.

So no one is saved by faith alone.

We are saved by a faith that has works ie A Living Faith.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only(faith without works).

Conclusion:
No one can be saved by faith that has no works because faith with no works is a dead faith,
Not a faith that is alive in Christ!

 

[LoveofTruth]

I want you to listen closely to your own beliefs on being born again ie how we are saved,

LoveofTruth qoute: "If our faith is ALIVE in Christ there will always be the work."

Now do you see how you define faith that is "alive in Christ" will always have works attached to it?

I agree.
The only faith that can save must be a living faith.
Faith that can save must be alive.

You correctly taught that faith that is alive always, always, always, has works with it.

So, I will ask you my orginal question again.

Can faith that has no works save?
You taught me faith that is alive always will have works.

Therefore faith that is dead, will always be alone!
Faith that is dead will not have works ie faith alone.

So again,
No one is saved by faith without works!

You said yourself that faith that is alive has works,
Faith that is dead must have no works,
Dead faith must be alone.

James 2:20
But do you want to know O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:26
For as the body without the soul is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

If you are saved with faith that has no works.
You are saved by a dead faith!

We both agree that the only faith that is a living faith always has works.

So no one is saved by faith alone.

We are saved by a faith that has works ie A Living Faith.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith only(faith without works).

Conclusion:
No one can be saved by faith that has no works because faith with no works is a dead faith,
Not a faith that is alive in Christ!

Not quite

faith which worketh by love . God’s love is she’s abroad in our heart. This happens when we are justified by faith and by faith we enter into the grace.
I show that it is grace that saves us . You didn’t comment on this. This grace of God working in our lives is the inward power and life abs spiritual influence upon our heart by Christ. This can only happen if we have faith in Christ. Then Christ dwells in our heat.

all good things flow from the inward life in Christ. We have ceased from our own works And walk In the light of Christ. The old man can do nothing in the flesh the new man can do all things through Christ . But a person must first be saved by believing the gospel and continuing to believe. This belief opens a door (so to speak) for Christ to come in and participate with us and work in us.
When I talk if “works” , I am NOT talking of the kind of works many do . The works cannot add to salvation for salvation or as part of the gospel (which Paul says we only need to believe it) no works like water baptism, or circumcision, or sabbaths or giving money to the poor or sabbath keeping or rituals or traditions or so called sacraments etc.can add to the gospel to be saved.

The works I speak of flow from the spirit, from inwardly. These can also be connected to the fruit of the spirit. Such as love joy peace long suffering kindness etc. how do we show forth the work of Gods love in our life? What does this work (that only flows after salvation and as we abide in the life) look like . Well, there are so many works that express the fruit of the Spirit we could barely mention them all, it would be almost endless. Let say a man moved with compassion inwardly who loves the poor goes and buys them food or clothing and helps them get a job etc. that is a good work in love .but the work itself is not how we judge, for a mafia man could give to the poor to make himself look good to others when all along he hates those he gives to. The work in the physical may be the same (giving to the poor) but the heart motive is different. The Christian gives from the love of God working within his heart, so his faith works by love. He has a good and obedient heart a new heart already from God and no work in the flesh can give that. .but the other man is evil inwardly and will be judged even though they might do the same physical work.
So we cannot simply say that a work in this or that that saved a person. No works can’t save you in that way. Only the work of Christ on the cross without us and his work in us can save.

we access this work for us through faith and when we believe we enter into the grace that saves. This is the new birth not merited or gained by any outward work such as water baptism or circumcision or keeping the law or sabbaths or the Lords supper outwardly et et et .

 

[praise_yeshua]

Therefore babies are saved without the gospel. They are saved because they were never separated from God because of sin.
Adults need the gospel because we are sinners. Our sins separate us from God, Isaiah 59:2.

Thank you. That says it very well. I have been doubting the old tradition that souls are born into the world with sin, which really is not true. They are born in sinful flesh, but not with sin.

There are many problematic issues with this senseless view.

Jesus very clear said that the soul is lost. It is more than just flesh being sinful.

Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I have children. I love them very deeply.

However, they have lied to me since they were born. Over and over again, they lie without being taught to lie. It comes natural to them.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Please know that I don't believe a faith will remain without works. Faith will quickly grow into having good works, putting away sin, keeping oneself unspotted from the world, and in living holy (by the inner working of God doing the good works through a believer). If there is no change in life and a believer is justifying sin and doing nothing for God, they are not saved.

A meaningful relationship with Jesus Christ wherein a "believer" abandons themselves to serve Jesus Christ... "Speaks for itself"....

However, this is very very rare. Paul said very clearly that when he went to send "someone" to help those at Philippi.

Php 2:20 For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.
Php 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.
Php 2:22 But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in the gospel.

There was no one but Timothy that would really care for them. "Naturally" care for them.

The reason given, "all seek there own".......Which is still true and WORSE today.

If such a devotion equal to the life of Timothy and Paul is required for redemption, then all are most assuredly lost.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Since faith only with no obedience is not genuine Biblical faith it cannot be true saving faith!

Obedience to what? Faith is obedience to the requirements of the Gospel.

"James" was wrong and "James" had no authority to establish any doctrine concerning the issue. James was written very late and by a Jewish convert that refused to abandon the Pharisee's doctrine.

Abraham wasn't good enough for God. Jesus Christ alone is.

 

[Titus]

Obedience to what? Faith is obedience to the requirements of the Gospel.

"James" was wrong and "James" had no authority to establish any doctrine concerning the issue. James was written very late and by a Jewish convert that refused to abandon the Pharisee's doctrine.

Abraham wasn't good enough for God. Jesus Christ alone is.

If James' teaching is wrong, then the Bible is error. Is James not part of the canon?

 

[Titus]

Obedience to what? Faith is obedience to the requirements of the Gospel.

"James" was wrong and "James" had no authority to establish any doctrine concerning the issue. James was written very late and by a Jewish convert that refused to abandon the Pharisee's doctrine.

Abraham wasn't good enough for God. Jesus Christ alone is.

Since faith is obedience.
Obedience is work.
Therefore faith and works save.

Faith alone salvation excludes obedience.
Obedience only exists when we keep commandments.
Obeying the commandments of Jesus' gospel is how one is saved.
Faith is a commandment that must be obeyed, 1John 3:23-24.

Gods grace is conditional.
God has prerequisites in His gospel.
One of the prerequisites in Jesus' gospel is to obey the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ.
Therefore When we obey Gods commandments we are doing a work of obedience.
This is not a work of man, but a work of God.

John 6:28-29,
Then they said to Him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Now, this proves that faith is a commandment 1John 3:23-24.
And it is a work of God that we do, John 6:28-29,

-Therefore we are saved by a faith that has works, James 2:24,
-Ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone?

 

[praise_yeshua]

If James' teaching is wrong, then the Bible is error. Is James not part of the canon?

The canon is recognized by men. Various Catholic councils attributed Divinity to various writings.

Not one single council is binding upon a single Christian. They are nothing more than the choices of men. Some of them are fine. Some of them are silly. The fact that man made council chose of list means nothing. That is simply "their list". Nothing more.

"James" is not James the "Lesser" or James the "Greater" nor the "brother of Jesus. He was just a man. He things right and things wrong just like all of us do.

You're not going to stand before God one day and use some "canon" set my men as a defense.

I don't mind if "James" remains. See it for what it is. A picture/window into the very real struggle for Jewish believers to abandon their silly beliefs and embrace the religion given to Abraham.