Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated
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so when it says that God "hates" Esau, remember this Psalm that says that God "hates" His own people! so the use of Romans 9:13, is NOT what the Calvinist would like it to mean, that God only loves the elect!
What psalm ? Ps 106:40 Got it. Its not the same thing, but I know you would nt understand. It doesnt negate that their are individuals God hates, doesnt Love, and will be eternally separated from God.
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So the anger of the LORD burned against His people, and He abhorred His own inheritance
what part do you not understand? It is very clear, that God's ANGER BURNED AGAINST HIS PEOPLE, the ELECT, and He HATED HIS OWN INHERITANCE
I know that this does not agree with your "reformed theology", but who really cares about that? The Word of God is Infallible ONLY!
Not All of national israel was Gods elect, only a remnant. Rom 11 makes that clear :
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Isa wrote that except the Lord had kept a remnant of that nation, it would be like sodom and gommorah Isa 1:9
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
Now quote me from anywhere in the 66 Books of the Bible, where the NON ELECT are ever called HIS PEOPLE and HIS OWN INHERITANCE.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Malachi 1:3, “Esau was Jacob’s brother,” the Lord explains, “yet I chose Jacob and rejected Esau. I turned Esau’s mountains into a deserted wasteland and gave his territory to the wild jackals.” NET v2.1
Here is the NET translator's note on that verse...
Heb “and I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.” The context indicates this is technical covenant vocabulary in which “love” and “hate” are synonymous with “choose” and “reject” respectively (see Deut 7:8; Jer 31:3; Hos 3:1; 9:15; 11:1).
I prefer this translation.
Here is the NET translator's note on that verse...
Heb “and I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated.” The context indicates this is technical covenant vocabulary in which “love” and “hate” are synonymous with “choose” and “reject” respectively (see Deut 7:8; Jer 31:3; Hos 3:1; 9:15; 11:1).
I prefer this translation.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
because what you say, "The context indicates this is technical covenant vocabulary in which “love” and “hate” are synonymous with “choose” and “reject” respectively", is not what the Hebrew means, regardless of what the NET Bible says! Only a Reformed/Calvinist, will try this!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Why should I accept what you say over what the NET translator/scholar says?
I already said you wont understand, so Im finished with it. It makes me no never mind if you dont receive the truth that God hates some individuals.
Why should a "translator/scholar" know more? I have been studying from the original language for almost 40 years.
Your reasoning is moot
You're not the first to have these ideas and in studying the entire Bible, I've seen the scriptural origins of most of the cults that use scripture. Some people get so decieved as to believe that Jesus is Lucifer. They're called Luciferians and their doctrine is demonic. Likewise there are those who believe that Jesus and Lucifer were Spiritual brothers before the incarnation and that Jesus is a created being. Their doctrine is demonic.
Jesus taught the law and the prophets from the perspective of God's grace. Grace can be seen everywhere in the Bible from Genesis to the book of the Revelation and Jesus said,
You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. John 5:39
Jesus rebuked the self righteous accusing them of ignoring the weightier matters of the law regarding judgment and mercy. The law confines everyone under sin, but grace sets us free.
The Old Testament is mostly about God's holiness and judgment in contrast to men who are neither holy or just. God separates us out as a chosen people called according to His purposes, just as He chose Israel to be blessed for obedience to the law and cursed in their disobedience. They were a people chosen to reveal God through His word, honored to bear His Son, and an example to the world for its preservation. The church has this same role as "salt and light" to the world, and the downward spiral of the world into sin is a direct result of our failure to be "salt and light."
This is exactly why judgment begins in the household of God.
The ministry of the law was the ministry of angels who were created to do God's will. God gives us an example of this when King David chose to have a census of the people. God gave David three choices as punishments, but David threw himself upon God's mercy to choose for him, only to let the judgment come by His hand rather than men. So God sent an angel to destroy with plague and restrained the angel at the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite. The place where the destruction was stopped became the site of the first temple of the Lord, another foreshadowing of death overcome by the sacrifice of Christ in that He is the chief cornerstone of God's temple, the church.
The Bible is called progressive revelation because you see a little bit of Jesus in Genesis in the works and words of God, and that Revelation becomes clearer over time as the scripture was written. Carnal minds can't see Him clearly in the Old testament, but God gives us His Spirit to teach us more and more about who He is, not just in the gospels, but throughout the written word. This is something impossible to see just by scholarship because spiritual things are only discerned by the spiritual mind, the mind of Christ. If you trust Him to show you the meaning of things, He will. When your mind drifts into carnal interpretation, just ask yourself whether your ideas glorify Him or give glory to His adversary and make Him less than the glory of God. This is a way to divide between our carnal understanding and His spiritual interpretation. The Holy Spirit always glorifies the Father through the Son. He does not diminish the Son or the Father, or give His glory to another.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
So I should just accept your opinion over that of a published scholar? It's irrelevant how long you have been studying. Before I retired I was in academia for many years, so I don't put any value on how long somebody has been studying. BTW, can you spell "pharisee"?
What exactly indicated a "hatred of the Jews" in my post? I simply summed up what was actually in Romans 9. Only a believing remnant of Jews will be saved.
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