Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated
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Romans 9 shows us that:
1. God makes a distinction between those who exercise faith and those do not.
2. God hardens the hearts of those who persist in hardness of heart.
3. God would have had all Israel saved but they did not all repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore only a believing remnant of Israel will be saved.
4. God had already seen Esau as a "profane person" and God has already seen Jacob as "Israel" (a prince with men and God). So one was an unbeliever (therefore hated) and one was a believer (therefore loved). Edom was always a bitter enemy of Israel, and God had already seen this when He made His pronouncement about hating "Esau" (Edom).
You not making any sense. God hated easu, period, I dont care what language you want to appeal to.
Like I said, Rom 9 is about Salvation. How God has Sovereignly Loved and Chosen some to Salvation, His Elect, and the rest He has hated, rejected and hardened to be condemned justly and punished for their sins. God has the right to demonstrate that, and He did it.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I see Easu and Jacob as the Gentiles and the Jews.
Jacob was chosen to carry the torch. Esau was meant to follow after.
Until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.
This struggle between Worshipping God and worshipping pagan gods has been going on forever.
Esau lives for the carnal life. He sold his birthright for a bowl of stew. He didn't have faith in God to provide.
Jacob on the other hand, knowingly deceiving his father, trusted God and put his fate in his hands.
Which brings me back to the garden... but that's another story.
Nothing we try to do without faith will succeed.
Jacob had more faith than Esau.
And God is the one who measures to every man however much faith is to be given.
Esau apparently was put at the end of the line.
However...
Many that are first shall be last, and the last first.
Can the clay say to the potter, why did you make me this way?
God has a purpose for everything under the sun.
Those my thoughts..
Hugs
Jacob was chosen to carry the torch. Esau was meant to follow after.
Until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled.
This struggle between Worshipping God and worshipping pagan gods has been going on forever.
Esau lives for the carnal life. He sold his birthright for a bowl of stew. He didn't have faith in God to provide.
Jacob on the other hand, knowingly deceiving his father, trusted God and put his fate in his hands.
Which brings me back to the garden... but that's another story.
Nothing we try to do without faith will succeed.
Jacob had more faith than Esau.
And God is the one who measures to every man however much faith is to be given.
Esau apparently was put at the end of the line.
However...
Many that are first shall be last, and the last first.
Can the clay say to the potter, why did you make me this way?
God has a purpose for everything under the sun.
Those my thoughts..
Hugs
Thankfully not too many believe this Calvinistic nonsense. Chances are you are too brainwashed to give it up.
So is psalm 106.40, which clearly says that God DETESTS His own people. I don't see any Calvinist quoting this verse
And for your information 5.5 is about God hating all workers of iniquity, which includes 106.40!
Esau became the nation of Edom and Edom becomes a symbol of those who suffer God's wrath. King Herod was Idumean (a descendant of Edom) and an example of godlessness. However, that verse you quoted, "
"Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" is actually used in context to explain God's election as its used in reference to their order of birth or "from the womb":
22 But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If all is well, why am I like this?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.
23 And the Lord said to her:
“Two nations are in your womb,
Two peoples shall be separated from your body;
One people shall be stronger than the other,
And the older shall serve the younger.”
24 So when her days were fulfilled for her to give birth, indeed there were twins in her womb. 25 And the first came out red. He was like a hairy garment all over; so they called his name Esau. 26 Afterward his brother came out, and his hand took hold of Esau’s heel; so his name was called Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when she bore them. Genesis 22:26
The tradition of the time was that the firstborn was to be the principal inheritor of the father's wealth and blessing. Jesus is the firstborn and inheritor of all creation. But God demonstrates His election by making the "older serve the younger" and Jacob repeated this choice when he blessed the sons of Joseph, Ephraim and Mannasah.
Even this was revealing Christ in His appearing, because He came as a servant, not as a king, the firstborn over all creation "washing the feet" of His disciples, giving His life for us as the propitiation of our sin, and in obedience to His Father according to His will and good pleasure.
What does the end of verse 23 say?
Reformed misrepresentation of what the Bible actually says, is always their problem. As they do with John 3.16 and other Scriptures
Exactly what I said, the older shall serve the younger, even as Christ serves us as our Savior, Redeemer, Teacher, and friend.
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, saying 12
“I will declare Your name to My brethren; in the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.” Hebrews 2:10-12
34 And He looked around in a circle at those who sat about Him, and said, “Here are My mother and My brothers! 35 For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother.” Mark 3:34-35
The fact that you don't understand something, doesn't make it less true.
Neither the passage in Genesis nor Romans says anything about salvation. You might have deluded yourself with this but it is not what the Bible actually says
Or you've deluded yourself, believed lies, and attacked God's saints for speaking truth. Good luck with that.
For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; Romans 11:25
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
Your hatred of the Jews is unjustified.
In case you can't read here it is
Then the anger of the LORD was kindled against his people, and he abhorred his heritage;
Psalms 106:40
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Not to get too off track..
speaking of brothers that is..
Jesus (life) came and submitted himself to ? (death)
And by doing so willingly, he overcame death and won the victory.
Darkness was already in the world when the light entered into it.
Is this darkness hmm.. I want to say Jehovah..
Jehovah gave the people the law that led to death.
But in order to come to the light one needed to be led through the valley of the shadow of death.
We came under the bondage of the Law. Held captive with fear of death.
And the reason why I say this, is because of the analogies of two brothers throughout the whole bible.
Even the NT has Jesus and John the Baptist as close relations. One Angel, 2 messages. 2 vessels, 2 sons.
I'm not saying this to rile anyone up. I'm just trying to piece a puzzle together.
A lot of times I get the wrong piece in the wrong place and find out later, it don't fit the whole picture.
I just hope that's understood.
If Jesus is Jehovah then why be so threatening and scary and not like Jesus who was gentle and kind?
What are we to make of this darkside vs. lightside?
I see brothers fighting in the wilderness. And the older one says, prove to me who you say you are.
And the younger one says, My faith is in God alone.
Jehovah walked among men as a spirit, Jesus walked among men as a man.
That which was spirit gave carnal laws, and that which was carnal gave spiritual laws.
Which one did the will of his father?
Both. However,
The time for regime change was at hand.
The rising and falling of kingdoms.
Luk 2:34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Back at Jacob and Esau...
It truly is seasonal. Dark to light, night to day.
When does time end?
When there is no more changing of the guard.
Just rambling...
I have questions.. lots of them
Hugs
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