Is there a cure for my religious upbringing? - other than atheism, I mean.

[Behold]

I found a real freedom when I released myself from the madness of religion.


[

Religion is man's attempt to earn what God gives as the "Gift" of Jesus on The Cross.

It cant be done, and it causes misery to try to do it, and its especially miserable when the Christian is trying to do it, ...after they have already received "the GIFT of Salvation". that is "Justification BY faith".

Paul teaches that this one has "fallen from Grace" and is "in the Flesh".

 

[St. SteVen]

God says that these are "without excuse" as all of Creation proves the existence of God..

"without excuse" ???
What does that mean from a practical view?

Is there salvation in acknowledging the Creator?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Atheism and its sibling agnosticism...

I don't have a major problem with either one.

Most atheists are angry at God for something. God will seek to bring them healing.

Agnosticism is usually a healthy doubt about things.

Religious people have HUGE issues with these people. I don't.
My best friend is agnostic. Christians don't make good friends. IMHO (too self-absorbed)

[

 

[Behold]

"without excuse" ???
What does that mean from a practical view?

It means that "God is understood as being there, always... because you can SEE "Creation"

So, the debate isn't "is God real".. the Debate is.>>>"how can you see Creation, and try to pretend its not ALL CREATED"..

So, that is the UNKNOWN, being proven to exist by the KNOWN that you can SEE.

One of Satan's tactics to get you to not see it that way is to use SCIENCE against it, as this is an effort to PROVE that what you can't See, isn't there, by trying to create a false narrative that is.>"here is how WE say that Creation began".

"trust us" that God does not exist, ......as we have this "big bang theory" for you to place your faith in, instead of God.

That is just one more attempt to hide God from the mind of an unbeliever.

 

[Behold]

Most atheists are angry at God for something. God will seek to bring them healing.

The Spirit of Anti-Christ is a rebellion against God, that originated with The Devil.

So, as all unbelievers are "......"You are OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL">. then that explains why all unbelievers by NATURE, are anti-God and Anti-Christ... or atheist......or similar.

Agnosticism is usually a healthy doubt about things.

Well, in the context of Christianity......an agnostic is an unbeliever who is "wondering" about "God stuff" ...but isn't "certain" its true.

What i tell Atheists and Agnostics....is... "you can't prove that God isn't real.. so until you can, keep an open mind = that He's there".


"""""and by the way, its impossible to prove that God isn't real....."""""

Religious people have HUGE issues with these people. I don't.

Christians should have love for the unbelievers,..as these are God's potential Spiritual Family, as soon as they are born again.... and that does not mean to accept their (unbelievers) point of View, regarding God and Christ and Heaven and Hell... ect.

It just means that we understand how it was to not believe..and we allow for that, in them., as they can't be anything else, until they see the Light, who is Christ.

My best friend is agnostic. Christians don't make good friends. IMHO (too self-absorbed)

Any type of blanket condemnation like..>"all christian are too self absorbed" is not valid., as its not true.

Dont you consider yourself to be a Christian? so then you just defined yourself as "self absorbed".

 

[St. SteVen]

It means that "God is understood as being there, always... because you can SEE "Creation"

So, the debate isn't "is God real".. the Debate is.>>>"how can you see Creation, and try to pretend its not ALL CREATED"..

So, that is the UNKNOWN, being proven to exist by the KNOWN that you can SEE.

The problem I have with that is the "without excuse" apologetic is used in reference to salvation.
But that is not what the "proof-text" is saying at all. Unless there is salvation in recognizing the Creator in creation.

One of Satan's tactics to get you to not see it that way is to use SCIENCE against it, as this is an effort to PROVE that what you can't See, isn't there, by trying to create a false narrative that is.>"here is how WE say that Creation began".

"trust us" that God does not exist, ......as we have this "big bang theory" for you to place your faith in, instead of God.

That is just one more attempt to hide God from the mind of an unbeliever.

Not all scientists claim that God doesn't exist. But most explain that our origins didn't happen that way that Bible states it.
And many fine Christians accept the explanation of origins from science. Personally, I'm torn on the subject.
If you change the Genesis narrative it causes problems with NT doctrines. If Adam wasn't the first man, what becomes of the Fall?

[

 

[Behold]

The problem I have with that is the "without excuse" apologetic is used in reference to salvation.

Its a reference to not believing that God exists.

Atheists try to prove that God is not real..

The way that an Atheist would try to prove that Salvation is not real is by saying that "sin does not exist"

And if they say that to me....i say.."listen IF we say we have no sin, then we deceive ourselves"..... (and yet i dont have any, but they do"...

That's a mystery that poor bible students, will never understand....

Not all scientists claim that God doesn't exist.

And not all ducks like to swim.....,

So... the point is... SCIENCE..=created theories that are taught as TRUTH......, that attempt to hide God from you.

But most explain that our origins didn't happen that way that Bible states it.

You chase that point of view.
I dont.

And many fine Christians accept the explanation of origins from science. Personally, I'm torn on the subject.

The Bible says that the Chicken was created before the first egg was laid by the chicken.

"All things are created after = its KIND"....

Now, that happened, before the FALL of Adam/Eve....and the fall created a CURSE upon the earth and upon Man.

So, from that "cursed position" regarding all of the Earth's creation........ can things change regarding what was created. /??????

It has to be so.. but that does not prove that You came from an Ape, and were once an amoeba........as that is Science trying to prove that God is not real., and that is of the DEVIL.

If you change the Genesis narrative it causes problems with NT doctrines. If Adam wasn't the first man, what becomes of the Fall?

Here is the thing....

Im going to meet Jesus, in the Rapture or after i die... (Hebrews 9:27)........and until then, i am going to respect the word of God that offers the only way to Him, as found inside a Bible.
John 14:6
That's it.

 

[St. SteVen]

The way that an Atheist would try to prove that Salvation is not real is by saying that "sin does not exist"

And if they say that to me....i say.."listen IF we say we have no sin, then we deceive ourselves"..... (and yet i dont have any, but they do"...

Do they laugh at you?

Better to run through the Ten Commandments.

[

 

[Behold]

Do they laugh at you?

Do atheists and fake christians laugh at me?

I would have to be honest and say, that they dont do it to my face.
But online, where they can hide behind a screen and pretend they are not a coward, while using an alt..., and attack me.... well, .a lot of them pretend to be what they are not, while they are "laughing".
God knows what they are.....
and....Im use to it.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thanks.
I need to launch a topic about how to talk to non-Christians.
A skill that is missing in the church.

[

 

[Behold]

Thanks.
I need to launch a topic about how to talk to non-Christians.
A skill that is missing in the church.

Good idea.

Let me help.

Use these verses.

Paul said.. this is how you talk to them.........

1 Corinthians 9:19-23
-

 

[St. SteVen]

Let me help.

LOL
Can you make that practical?

How to talk to non-Christians. - A worthwhile effort, really.

Seven rules I use. Let me know what you would add. 1) Treat them with respect. Don't talk down to them. 2) They are a real person, not a project. 3) Their opinion is as valuable as yours. (at least pretend it is) - LOL 4) Listen! You have to ears and one mouth, use them proportionately. 5)...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Behold]

LOL
Can you make that practical?

I can @St. SteVen .

Thx for the Q..


For example.. if im talking to a musician, who is an atheist..who is a guitarist or vocalist, or bass player or drummer... then i dont beat them with the NT, during our conversation..
What i do, is relate to them as a Musician, as i am a professional musician all my life who plays all those instruments, and sings.

Im a recording musician, so, that is even better for them, as that is interesting for them, as they've also wanted to be one of those...more than likely.

A.) So, i "become unto them"... as Paul teaches......."just like they are".. *Yet without sin".... and that allows us to BOND... which allows them to comprehend me as......... "He is like me". .and yet, he believes in JESUS">

See that?
That is an OPEN DOOR........and that is how you "become unto them, as they are"... to lead them to Christ.

"relatability".. "Likability"....that is KEY.....in many cases.......when trying to appeal to someone's Heart regarding their need to be forgiven their sin......by trusting in Christ.

STING..,the musician.......you know "The POLICE"....who broke up in '1986....

He understands "Soul Cages".. .as "Spirits in the Material World"........as He created that album and wrote that song....
....................................I know, i just "shifted gears" on you, so, try not to get whiplash.............................................
And so with STING.... that is mightily interesting, because he understands that the Spirit in a person, is the real them.. not their body..
The body is just the dying container that contains the REAL YOU that Jesus came to REDEEM.
And honestly, that is an understanding of the spiritual realm that is not understood by most Christians ... these days.

So, STING...understands that the Spirit in the person, is the real "them".. and this is who real Christians are trying to rescue from this....

John 3:36

 

[A Freeman]

Aren't these human bodies that we temporarily live inside of (the flesh) our "soul cages"?

Shouldn't people strive to set a good example for others through their actions more than through their words?

 

[Behold]

Aren't these human bodies that we temporarily live inside of (the flesh) our "soul cages"?

Correct..

"EARTH Suit"... "from dust you were created (earth) and back to the earth your body is going to return'..

A.) You are a SPIRIT BEING< who is experiencing the "natural realm" in an "earth suit".. = your body.

Shouldn't people strive to set a good example for others through their actions more than through their words?

"walk the walk and talk the talk"..

So that by your LOVE all will understand that you are a CHRISTIAN..

(Good idea)

 

[Behold]

Can you make that practical?

or...

Lets say you i was dealing with you about Salvation..... hypothetically.

I would talk to you about Pink Floyd.. or David Gilmour's recent Album.

I could talk to you in 50 different directions about those 2.......and you would feel good about our conversation, and that allows me to enjoy the conversation, and to share my faith.

That is what Paul is describing.

RELATE to the person......find common ground........ build a bond..........earn their trust by being friendly.
Care about them because you DO.

Jesus talked to sinners every day.. even from The Cross., and He always related to them, healed them.....ect.

 

[St. SteVen]

Im a recording musician, so, that is even better for them...

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522
Click page link to see several collaboration projects.
I usually provide song ideas, lyrics, general producer direction, and guitar solos.

[

 

[Wrangler]

Is one right and the other wrong? What's happening here?

Yes, one is going toward truth while the other is going further away from truth. At least they seem to both be pursuing truth. That's they key!

 

[St. SteVen]

Yes, one is going toward truth while the other is going further away from truth. At least they seem to both be pursuing truth. That's they key!

Who determines what is truth in this situation? One is still struggling with tough questions
while the other has returned to the standard apologetics that they once abandoned.

[

 

[Wrangler]

Who determines what is truth in this situation? One is still struggling with tough questions
while the other has returned to the standard apologetics that they once abandoned.

Invalid question. Truth is a WHAT, not a WHO. The question of what determines a valid metaphysics is the dry science of epistemology, of which, logic is a part.

One measure of Spiritual truth is the fruit of the Spirit. Who lives joyfully with peace and who lives with anxiety, depression and anger?

Compare me to my stepdaughter. A couple of years ago, she turned away from the Christian faith my wife raised her with. Now, she suffers from Stage 5 TDS and many other maladies.