Is the three year old Child that dies?

[MatthewG]

Cool everyone

thank you for sharing.

 

[PinSeeker]

There is no "age of accountability." All are accountable. Even David was born ~ even conceived ~ sinful (Psalm 51:4-5). The only thing it depends on is God and His mercy/compassion, which He has on whom He will have it. He draws His elect to Himself by changing the heart of the person (from stone to flesh, as Ezekiel puts it), and He can do this regardless of age. David also says that God made him His from his birth, that even from his mother’s womb God has been his God (Psalm 22:9-10). In the New Testament, we see this in John, who "leaped for joy" in his mother Elizabeth's womb when Mary, also pregnant (with Jesus), came to visit, and greeted Elizabeth (Luke 1:44).

So:

"Does the three year old child who never called out the name Jesus saved by never knowing who He was?"

Possibly. But in the case that he is saved, I would argue that in his heart, he did in fact know Him... in their heart, which is where God makes Himself known to His elect.​

"Is the child dammed to hell forever by God?"

Well, again, possibly, if he or she was not one of God's elect, which depends on God and his mercy/compassion.​

"In my understanding Jesus saved the child having paid for the sin of the Child.... Which was for all people!"

Well, Jesus's having paid for sin is a fact. His sacrifice was sufficient to save all, but not effectual for all. It was only effectual for God's elect.​

"God is good, God love, God is just, God is merciful… to suggest that child goes to hell damned forever is simply just not biblical to me."

Hmm, well, I agree, but you're you're changing (in a manner of speaking) God's goodness, love, justness, and mercifulness to what you think it should be, and we can't really do that.​

Grace and peace to you.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you all for sharing.

I guess God really knows. His ways are not our ways, and his thoughts are not our thoughts, however we know He loved everyone in the world enough to send the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord Jesus Christ and his death was FOR all of the entire world. Phew.

I am glad he did for you, and your family, and the world, saving all people from - Death, Sin, Satan and his demons, hell/sheol.

Some people experience by being born again - salvation of becoming a new person in and through Christ. Some people reject being saved to the kingdom of heaven due to having no faith, and rejecting God.

There are only two destinations in my purview : Revelation 22:14-16. Those who are going inside of the kingdom due to having faith and love for God and others, and those who are outside of the kingdom having lack of faith, no love for God, no love for others. *The greatest sin in my opinion is to reject God and the Holy Spirit: because the person remains in darkness never coming to the light of the truth of the Gospel of Christ in which they desired anything else besides Him or God.

Think about it.

In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[kcnalp]

I used to have a Pentecostal friend. Until I found out he believed that children of sinners burn in Hell.

 

[PinSeeker]

I used to have a Pentecostal friend. Until I found out he believed that children of sinners burn in Hell.

Yeah, I would certainly stay away from Pentecostalism. Not necessarily the people, per se, but the "ism." :)

But I would also get away from the idea of "burning in hell."

Don't get me wrong; hell is certainly a place we want to stay away from, especially in view of what could be had, but yeah.

Grace and peace.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

There is no "age of accountability."

Romans 7:
For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Earlier in Romans 4:15 Paul says for where no law is, there is no transgression. And John said sin is transgression of the law 1 John 3:4.

For anyone to be a sinner requires there to be a law and that law transgressed by an accountable person. If we accept how the BIBLE defines sins, then the BIBLE makes the idea of OS an impossibility.

The idea of an age of accountability is found in Romans 7:8-9. Paul begins by saying without the law sin is dead for there is no transgression where there is no law. Paul then points out he was once alive "without the law" which means as an infant Paul was 'without law' whereby sin was dead to him for there is no sin without law. Without law, sin cannot accomplish anything. Yet as Paul intellectually matured learning right from wrong (Isaiah 7:15-16) THEN sin sprang alive him. Therefore he was not born with sin, but sin sprang up in him later in his life.

Note how Paul uses the words "alive" and "died" in Romans 7:9. Paul is using these words to describe his spiritual state. If OS were true, then Paul would have been born "dead" and would have remained "dead" until he became a born again Christian. Yet Paul was born "alive" having been born without sin when he was "without law" making sin dead to him. Yet upon reaching an 'age of accountability' having learned right from wrong, then sin sprang up and he then "died".

David, as all men are, would have been born "alive" just as Paul. Yet as David intellectually matured learning right from wrong, then sin sprang up in David and he died spiritually as Paul.

(This not only refutes OS, it refutes OSAS since Paul went from being spiritually alive to being dead spiritually.)

 

[PinSeeker]

There is no age of accountability. We are all born in sin, dead in sin ~ this is the natural human condition.

At some point, we are born again of the Spirit (John 3). Especially relevant here is John 3:3, where Jesus says to Nicodemus, "(U)nless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." It can happen at any time ~ at the appointed time, God's appointed time ~ in our lives. At the time we are born again, we become alive in the Spirit, for sure. And this appointed time is a result of God's purpose of election. Paul elaborates on this in Romans 9-11, particularly here in Romans 9:11, where Paul, using Jacob (elect) and Esau (not elect) as examples, says, "...though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad ~ in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls..."

Yes, we are accountable for sin even before we are saved; we all are, Christian or not, of course ~ this is a general accountability ~ but that's not what we're really talking about.

From that point forward, we are freed from the law of sin and death, no longer dead in Adam, but alive in Christ, no longer slaves to unrighteousness but slaves to righteousness (Romans 5). This is the work of God and has absolutely nothing to do with any work of man.

The accountability that we then have ~ the obligation, in a sense, but really it becomes even our desire at that point ~ is a result of God's work of salvation and faith in us. We are then, as I just said, slaves to righteousness. God, at that point, has begun a good work in us, and He will bring it to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6). Paul implores us from that point forward to "put off the old self with its practices and... put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator" (Colossians 3:9-10), to "work out (our) own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in (us), both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). And as the writer of Hebrews puts it, we are exhorted to "lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and... run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God."

David, as all men are, would have been born "alive" just as Paul.

We are born dead in sin. David says this very thing in Psalm 51:5, saying, "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me." David and then Paul also were made alive in the Spirit. Like you and me, they were, at some point in their lives ~ David, while still in his mother's womb ("...from my mother’s womb You have been my God" Psalm 22:10), and Paul, when he was a man (Acts 9) ~ were born again and made alive in the Spirit. See above.

Yet as David intellectually matured learning right from wrong, then sin sprang up in David and he died spiritually as Paul...

They were both born in sin. David and Paul are both explicit in this.

Paul went from being spiritually alive to being dead spiritually.

Absolutely not, and precisely the opposite. Paul himself says (in Ephesians 2:4-10) the following:

"But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."​

The accountability we have as Christians is a result of God's work of salvation and faith in us. Peter puts it this way, regarding death and then life:

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."​

The Bible, over and over and over again, affirms that once we are placed in Christ Jesus, we cannot be lost again, somehow in need of being "re-placed" in Christ. Even Christ Himself says:

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him Who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given Me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day." (John 6:37-40).​

Once found, we cannot be lost. Thanks be to God. To Him be the glory!

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

There is no "age of accountability." All are accountable. Even David was born ~ even conceived ~ sinful (Psalm 51:4-5). The only thing it depends on is God and His mercy/compassion, which He has on whom He will have it. He draws His elect to Himself by changing the heart of the person (from stone to flesh, as Ezekiel puts it), and He can do this regardless of age. David also says that God made him His from his birth, that even from his mother’s womb God has been his God (Psalm 22:9-10). In the New Testament, we see this in John, who "leaped for joy" in his mother Elizabeth's womb when Mary, also pregnant (with Jesus), came to visit, and greeted Elizabeth (Luke 1:44).

So:

"Does the three year old child who never called out the name Jesus saved by never knowing who He was?"

Possibly. But in the case that he is saved, I would argue that in his heart, he did in fact know Him... in their heart, which is where God makes Himself known to His elect.​

"Is the child dammed to hell forever by God?"

Well, again, possibly, if he or she was not one of God's elect, which depends on God and his mercy/compassion.​

"In my understanding Jesus saved the child having paid for the sin of the Child.... Which was for all people!"

Well, Jesus's having paid for sin is a fact. His sacrifice was sufficient to save all, but not effectual for all. It was only effectual for God's elect.​

"God is good, God love, God is just, God is merciful… to suggest that child goes to hell damned forever is simply just not biblical to me."

Hmm, well, I agree, but you're you're changing (in a manner of speaking) God's goodness, love, justness, and mercifulness to what you think it should be, and we can't really do that.​

Grace and peace to you.

That is my view also. Infants and young children are not damned to hell fire and fiery torments.
What also is of note, this question or an answer was never specifically written in scripture, it was an assumption the people had, they would not be going to hell, but of course Jesus did bless the little children and said the kingdom of heaven is for them.
And this
Psalm 8
New King James Version

The Glory of the Lord in Creation
To the Chief Musician. On the instrument of Gath. A Psalm of David.
1 O Lord, our Lord,
How excellent is Your name in all the earth,
Who have set Your glory above the heavens!

2 Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants
You have ordained strength, (praises Jesus uses that word, so then in them are perfected praises to God)
Because of Your enemies,
That You may silence the enemy and the avenger. (the enemy is of course the adversary of God and accuser, Satan, God silences!)

Matthew 21
14 Then the blind and the lame came to Him in the temple, and He healed them. 15 But when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that He did, and the children crying out in the temple and saying, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” they were indignant 16 and said to Him, “Do You hear what these are saying?”

And Jesus said to them, “Yes. Have you never read,

‘Out of the mouth of babes and nursing infants
You have perfected praise’?”

17 Then He left them and went out of the city to Bethany, and He lodged there.