Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

[Waiting on him]

How will will you make yourself manifest too us and not the rest of the world?

 

[Waiting on him]

John 4:24 KJV
[24] God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Waiting on him]

 

[justbyfaith]

Where you err like the Jews did and the early church discovered, is that all three are spearate entities, but share the same divinity.

Again, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are not separate but distinct. And even according to the creeds, they are one entity.

Are you a mormon?

Jesus declared Himself equal to but separate from His Father and from the Spirit!

Chapter and verse, please.

The Father is a Spirit, but the Father is ot THE Spirit! That is SCripture as written.

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4). So if the Father is Spirit, He is "the" Spirit. There are no other Spirits that can be identified as God, with a "capital S".

God the Son is not the Father

Isaiah 9:6 would tell us otherwise. In order to deny this testimony, you may have to change the wording in Isaiah 9:6, not once, but twice.

Matthew 11
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

So we see here that the Father is the Lord (of heaven and earth).

Now, there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29).

However, no one can say that Jesus is "the" Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

How many Lords are there? ONE.

The Father is the Lord (your verse).

Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3).

Jesus is not the Father?

If that is the case, then there are two Lords; and we have a contradiction in holy scripture (see 1 Corinthians 8:6, Mark 12:29, Ephesians 4:5).

I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord (1 Corinthians 12:5, 2 Corinthians 8:19 (kjv)).

When you have the Father who becomes the Son, that's modalism.

No, it is an accurate understanding of the Trinity. Once the Father has become flesh, He does not revert back to being the 1st Person of the Trinity. He only moves forward to becoming the 3rd Person, in Luke 23:46. But modalism, by definition, has the members of the Godhead constantly changing hats so that the Son can become the Father again. The Son is always God (the Father) in His Spirit; and therefore He does not change "back" to being the Father after coming to dwell in human flesh.

Of course, the Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as the Father (John 4:23-24, John 7:39, Ephesians 4:4); so when Jesus releases His Spirit back to the Father, he is releasing the Father back to the Father.

Because the Father, when He descended, did not cease to dwell in eternity; for it is the nature of one who dwells in eternity that they are there eternally.

It should be clear that the Spirit dwelling in Jesus was the Father (John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11).

So, when Jesus released His Spirit back to the 1st Person of the Trinity (Luke 23:46), this 3rd Person is the Father with a new title of Holy Ghost; even a completely different Person (who proceeds from the Father, John 15:26); for He has behind Him the experiential knowledge of what it means to live and die as a human being. This is why it is not unpardonable to blaspheme the Father but it is unpardonable to blaspheme the Holy Ghost. Because He is intimately acquainted with us through the experiential knowledge of having been human. His relations to us are with understanding therefore; and so if we reject His testimony as He gives it to us with perfect experiential knowledge of what it is like to be us, there is no more hope for us thereafter.

 

[101G]

Matthew 11
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Who is Jesus talking about? Himself? Or His Father?

Simplicity itself.

Much love!

man oh man ... he's diversified in flesh, Dhu.

Marks, go back and and read my posts, and then go to the Spirit and ask for wisdom, and let him teach you the truth.. ok.

your three persons as God is over.

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

@101G,

Is the messiah the father himself in flesh?

Yes, Father, Son and Holy Ghost are a singular Person.

When I say that Father and Son, for example, are distinct from one another, I say it because the 1st Person of the Trinity is a Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (without flesh); while the 2nd Person of the Trinity is the same Spirit and the same Person, with flesh.

I will say that the addition of flesh to the nature of God has an effect on His personality.

Jesus upbraided His disciples (Mark 16:14); but scripture teaches us that God does not upbraid people (James 1:5).

So, is Jesus therefore not God?

No; for Jesus is both God and man; and it is in His humanity that he upbraided His disciples. The Divine aspect of Jesus took no part in the upbraiding of Mark 16:14: it was completely in His humanity that He did this.

In a similar manner, we find in James 1:13 that God cannot be tempted. Yet we know from Matthew 4, Luke 4, and 1 Corinthians 10:9 that Christ can be tempted.

Is therefore Christ not God? We know from other scriptures that He is.

So it is in His humanity that He can be tempted but not in His Deity.

I conclude that the addition of human flesh makes Jesus a different Person from the Father, with a different personality; while He is also the same Spirit and therefore, also, the same Person. The only difference is that flesh is added to the nature of the 1st Person, making Him the 2nd Person; and herein is the distinction.

I think that you should try to answer this.

 

[101G]

@justbyfaith
first thanks for the reply, second, two ERRORS,

ERROR #1. you said, "Yes, Father, Son and Holy Ghost are a singular Person".
Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are titles, not persons. Titles are not persons... ok. the only person of God is JESUS who is the Holy Spirit... ok.

ERROR #2. you said, "When I say that Father and Son, for example, are distinct from one another, I say it because the 1st Person of the Trinity is a Spirit who inhabiteth eternity (without flesh); while the 2nd Person of the Trinity is the same Spirit and the same Person, with flesh".
there is no TRINITY. and there is no 1st. person of any trinity, no any 2nd person of a trinity. there is the ordinal first of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and there is the ordinal last of the Holy Spirit, Jesus.

well third ERROR, you said, "In a similar manner, we find in James 1:13 that God cannot be tempted. Yet we know from Matthew 4, Luke 4, and 1 Corinthians 10:9 that Christ can be tempted".
NOT WITH EVIL. but, Malachi 3:10 "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it."

the word "PROVE" is the Hebrew word,
H974 בָּחַן bachan (baw-chan') v.
1. to test (especially metals).
2. (generally and figuratively) to investigate.
[a primitive root]
KJV: examine, prove, tempt, try (trial).

now christ was tempted but not the spirit in him, listen did the devil tempt the "Son of Man", or the the "Son of God?".... (smile). see the Son of God as I been saying is that flesh that was born, and not the Spirit that came from heaven in a G2758 κενόω kenoo state. see the difference now between the Son of God/Flesh and the Son of man/spirit.... well?

Is therefore Christ not God? We know from other scriptures that He is.
not the "NATURAL" flesh bone and Blood, that came out of Mary No, but the spirit that came from heaven YES, that dwelt in that flesh. understand, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

the Form of God here is a diversed NATURE, see the truth now. not that, "Natural" flesh which took on the idenity of the spirit that was in it. understand now? for he is God, but yet without sin, and in the flesh he as the "Diversity" was tempted, yet without sin, neither in flesh nor the Spirit did he sin. but now, as High Priest.... listen

So it is in His humanity that He can be tempted but not in His Deity.
ERROR, scripture, Hebrews 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession."Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

he knows, for this is why he is our High Priest and Mediator... (smile)..... in a "DIVERSE" state. see the difference now?

it is in memory of his humanity, for that fleshly chapter of his life has ended, but he know, just as he was while he was in flesh and his own Spirit the Holy Spirit intercede for us. then and NOW, listen. Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."
so no, God have the same feeling and personality before he took on flesh as well as after. READ THE OT.

THANK GOD FOR HIS DIVERSE STATE IN FLESH.

I conclude that the addition of human flesh makes Jesus a different Person from the Father, with a different personality
you was doing good untill this statement. (see above).

and speaking of personality, where do you think we get ours from?....... YIKES!....... Love, hate, anger, mercy.... ect. it goes on and on.


REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

there is no TRINITY. and there is no 1st. person of any trinity, no any 2nd person of a trinity. there is the ordinal first of the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and there is the ordinal last of the Holy Spirit, Jesus.

Pardon me for using language that is a buzz word in your eyes.

What I meant to say was that the Father inhabiteth eternity while the Son is the same Spirit and therefore the same Person as the Father except in human flesh.

The Father is Omnipresent; while in becoming the Son, He divested Himself of His Omnipresence to dwell in a body of human flesh. In doing this He took on the nature of humanity so that it was not His Deity that became humanity but rather that Deity took on an added nature of humanity.

 

[sho]

Is the Messiah the Father Himself? What does the Messiah say?

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 10:32
Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.


Matthew 11
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother

I could go on, but the point is, Was the Messiah trying to deceive us? Or was He living and speaking according to reality?

Much love!

There are no three gods there is only one God who has two forms. The invisible and the visible. The father who is the holy spirit is the invisible and the son is the visible image of the father.
Don't pick single verses but look at the whole bible and you will understand it.

 

[ChristisGod]

There are no three gods there is only one God who has two forms. The invisible and the visible. The father who is the holy spirit is the invisible and the son is the visible image of the father.
Don't pick single verses but look at the whole bible and you will understand it.

God is US, WE, OUR who is PLURAL in Persons- The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and they are NOT each other. Believe all the bible from Genesis through Revelation which teaches this TRUTH . Don't pick one verse and remove it from the rest of the scriptures to form your false doctrine of God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

What I meant to say was that the Father inhabiteth eternity while the Son is the same Spirit and therefore the same Person as the Father except in human flesh.

GINOLJC, to All
Step #1.
now that is correct 100%

The Father is Omnipresent; while in becoming the Son,

Step #2.
not becoming, (according to the Spirit), but "is", Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" "being is present tense, meaning "is". only the flesh that he came in became... of the human condition of sin, (nine months in the womb). so I'll go with statement.

He divested Himself of His Omnipresence to dwell in a body of human flesh

Step #3.
he "shared" himself first, (spiritually), or the es·sence of his nature first, before he, "made", (the G243 allos, another), divested of His powers to dwell in flesh. else if he would had divested himself of his powers before he shared and tranfered himself into that body of flesh, he, God would have been G2758 κενόω kenoo totally. so I can accept you line of reasoning.

In doing this He took on the nature of humanity so that it was not His Deity that became humanity but rather that Deity took on an added nature of humanity.

yes, that Deity that was G2758 κενόω kenoo as the, (G243 allos, another, of himself, in flesh), divested of His powers, yes he (TOOK ON", humanity. correct 100%, but was not a PARTAKER of humanity, but "TOOK PART" in it. supportive scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"
justbyfaith, that is very important to understand, "took part" vs "partaker" espically when understanding the virgin birth.

now on what you said so far, I'll give you an "A". but remember as you said, which is true, and I quote, "What I meant to say was that the Father inhabiteth eternity while the Son is the same Spirit and therefore the same Person as the Father except in human flesh." BINGO, Same Spirit, same PERSON, because of his "sharing" of his (Spirit), his OWNSELF in flesh as the G243 Allos of himself.


a numerial difference, but another of the "SAME" SORT, meaning the same one Person... "equally "shared" in Spirit. Not a division of Two, not a copy of two, not a unity of two, BUT THE EQUAL SHARE OF "ONE".

REMEMBER THE fATHER AND SON IS THE SAME ONE SPIRIT IS THE SAME PERSON, meaning there is no three person at all, only one.

jbf.... good JOB,

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

God is US, WE, OUR who is PLURAL in Persons- The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and they are NOT each other. Believe all the bible from Genesis through Revelation which teaches this TRUTH . Don't pick one verse and remove it from the rest of the scriptures to form your false doctrine of God.

hope this helps !!!

yes the bible teach truth, and in Genesis 1:26 and 27 God is a "he" single person, the Us and the Our was to come in the Last beginning, do you understand?


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

I understand just fine, the million dollar question is do you ?

I can make you a promise, one of us is wrong and it isn't me. :)

 

[101G]

I understand just fine, the million dollar question is do you ?

I can make you a promise, one of us is wrong and it isn't me. :)

never make a promise you cannot keep.

now by Faith in him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, in he I have Faith that he will makr your promise void.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

never make a promise you cannot keep.

now by Faith in him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, in he I have Faith that he will makr your promise void.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I'm a promise keeper :)

 

[marks]

man oh man ... he's diversified in flesh, Dhu.

Marks, go back and and read my posts, and then go to the Spirit and ask for wisdom, and let him teach you the truth.. ok.

your three persons as God is over.

Once Again . . . you do not respond to my content, and just post some snipey little thing about me.

Ask yourself . . . why is it that you continue to do that? You post on a debate forum, but you won't debate?

You post long and imo convoluted arguments. When I attempt to tackle just one part of your argument, you go "ad homimen", and again, won't debate with me.

That's what seems to me to be over, your desire to have any kind of real discussion. Too bad!

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

Once Again . . . you do not respond to my content, and just post some snipey little thing about me.

Ask yourself . . . why is it that you continue to do that? You post on a debate forum, but you won't debate?

You post long and imo convoluted arguments. When I attempt to tackle just one part of your argument, you go "ad homimen", and again, won't debate with me.

That's what seems to me to be over, your desire to have any kind of real discussion. Too bad!

Much love!

Agree 100% and its the same one over and over ad nauseum.

 

[marks]

Don't pick single verses but look at the whole bible and you will understand it.

Are you thinking that's what I'm doing, only looking at single verses?

Much love!

 

[sho]

Are you thinking that's what I'm doing, only looking at single verses?

Much love!

Yes you do.
Believe in one God and in the image of God who is Yeshua. That's what the bible says. No trinity.

 

[marks]

Yes you do.
Believe in one God and in the image of God who is Yeshua. That's what the bible says. No trinity.

Where did you gain your knowledge of my Bible study history and practice?

Much love!