Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.

[Verily]

How about Jesus soul and the LORD's soul?

I meant to post the scriptures

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

And the LORD making the soul of Jesus an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Or this way (comparing between them)

OT Hebrew

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

NT Greek

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen;
my beloved, in whom my soul (psyche) is well pleased: I will put my spirit (pneuma) upon him,
and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

 

[St. SteVen]

Seems strange that folks demand of God that His ways are logical when He says they are past finding out.

Whatever that means.
Should we conclude that NOTHING can be known about God?
Doesn't the Bible tells us plenty?
Is God untrustworthy?

[

 

[Carl Emerson]

Whatever that means.
Should we conclude that NOTHING can be known about God?
Doesn't the Bible tells us plenty?
Is God untrustworthy?

[

No yes yes..

The point I make is that He is not subject to Human logic - He walks on water and turns it into wine.

 

[Hillsage]

I meant to post the scriptures

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach) upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

MAT 26:37 ....He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. (soulish emotions and attributes)
MAT 26:38 Then He said to them, "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death.

His soul never 'died', but it was tempted with death by his FLESH in the Garden. He prayed twice and His soul surrendered its FLESHLY will to His spirit of Christ's will.

MAT 26:41* "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done."

The holy spirit of Christ which was IN Jesus was willing to go to the cross. But His weakened (scourged) FLESH did not want to die. His soul was lining up with His flesh. But Jesus yielded to the spirit's willingness taking His soulish thoughts captive to 'His spirit' (NOT the Holy Spirit of the triune God).


ACT 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And it was the SOUL of Jesus that made Him the "SON OF DAVID".

And the LORD making the soul of Jesus an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Or this way (comparing between them)

OT Hebrew

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

The Holy Spirit which was UPON Jesus, as you correctly underline IS the Holy Spirit of the triune God. Jesus never received that spirit until He was 30 and it remained UPON Him and was the source of the supernatural POWER/MIRACLES He walked in without measure.

I hope what I've shared above helps you understand where I'm coming from. But it certainly isn't easy peasy to see because of centuries of teaching which I simply disagree with.

NT Greek

Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen;
my beloved, in whom my soul (psyche) is well pleased: I will put my spirit (pneuma) upon him,
and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

JOH 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining ON him....

LUK 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is UPON me,

 

[Verily]

MAT 26:37 ....He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. (soulish emotions and attributes)
MAT 26:38 Then He said to them, "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death.

His soul never 'died', but it was tempted with death by his FLESH in the Garden. He prayed twice and His soul surrendered its FLESHLY will to His spirit of Christ's will.

MAT 26:41* "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done."

The holy spirit of Christ which was IN Jesus was willing to go to the cross. But His weakened (scourged) FLESH did not want to die. His soul was lining up with His flesh. But Jesus yielded to the spirit's willingness taking His soulish thoughts captive to 'His spirit' (NOT the Holy Spirit of the triune God).


ACT 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And it was the SOUL of Jesus that made Him the "SON OF DAVID".

The Holy Spirit which was UPON Jesus, as you correctly underline IS the Holy Spirit of the triune God. Jesus never received that spirit until He was 30 and it remained UPON Him and was the source of the supernatural POWER/MIRACLES He walked in without measure.

I hope what I've shared above helps you understand where I'm coming from. But it certainly isn't easy peasy to see because of centuries of teaching which I simply disagree with.

JOH 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining ON him....

LUK 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is UPON me,

Hey thanks for all of that, how about the soul of the LORD and the soul of Jesus Christ only

Just going by two verses

The LORD's soul here

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

And Jesus soul here

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

 

[Carl Emerson]

MAT 26:37 ....He began to be sorrowful and deeply distressed. (soulish emotions and attributes)
MAT 26:38 Then He said to them, "My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death.

His soul never 'died', but it was tempted with death by his FLESH in the Garden. He prayed twice and His soul surrendered its FLESHLY will to His spirit of Christ's will.

MAT 26:41* "Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak."
42 He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done."

The holy spirit of Christ which was IN Jesus was willing to go to the cross. But His weakened (scourged) FLESH did not want to die. His soul was lining up with His flesh. But Jesus yielded to the spirit's willingness taking His soulish thoughts captive to 'His spirit' (NOT the Holy Spirit of the triune God).


ACT 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

And it was the SOUL of Jesus that made Him the "SON OF DAVID".

The Holy Spirit which was UPON Jesus, as you correctly underline IS the Holy Spirit of the triune God. Jesus never received that spirit until He was 30 and it remained UPON Him and was the source of the supernatural POWER/MIRACLES He walked in without measure.

I hope what I've shared above helps you understand where I'm coming from. But it certainly isn't easy peasy to see because of centuries of teaching which I simply disagree with.

JOH 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining ON him....

LUK 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is UPON me,

I am with you on this...

The is one issue that needs to be emphasised - His flesh was perfect and sinless but weak. He never had a currupted flesh like we do.

Also he was indwelled by the Holy Spirit from conception.

 

[Lambano]

This deceptive attempt of circular reasoning is a bust. Might as well just sit this one out with a cold brew..just saying

There is a well-known philosophical paradox that has applicability to the theological question at hand, "Was Jesus the Logos when the world was created through the Logos?": You can't stick your hand in the same river twice, because the second time it's not the same river. (And is it the same hand?)

"God is dead" - Nietzche
"Nietzche is dead" - God.

 

[Hillsage]

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

I can't answer every question perfectly. But IMO these two verses are speaking PROPHETICALLY to the future. Because, as I read those two scriptures JESUS hadn't been born yet. Look at all the bolded "SHALL" I made in your quote above

ROM 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who......calleth those things which be not as though they were.

 

[Lambano]

Apparently, Jesus had memories of being the Logos before Creation. Say what?!?!?

 

[Hillsage]

I am with you on this...

The is one issue that needs to be emphasised - His flesh was perfect and sinless but weak. He never had a currupted flesh like we do.

Also he was indwelled by the Holy Spirit from conception

I see what you're saying Carl....but feel there is still misunderstanding as to this last sentence above.

I don't know of a scripture anywhere that says The Holy Spirit (of the trinity) indwelled Jesus from conception. The Holy Spirit of God is the source that all the supernatural power of God flows from. Concerning creation I use this analogy; the FATHER thought it, The Word spoke it and The Holy Spirit did it. As for the conception of Jesus scripture says;

JOH 3:6 That which is born (Gr OUT) of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born (Gr OUT) of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Read a GREEK INTERLINEAR translation to confirm what I am saying; both in the verse above and Luke 1:35 below, the Greek word for OUT is sadly left OUT of your bibles. WHY? Because it doesn't line up with what translators, who were taught of man, believed doctrinally for centuries. But what does scripture say?

LUK 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost (of the triune God) shall come UPON (not in) thee, and the (supernatural) power of the Highest (from the triune God) shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing (holy spirit of Christ) which shall be born (GR OUT) of thee shall be called the Son of God.

IOW the "holy thing" birthed OUT of Mary was the 'holy spirit of Christ' conceived FROM the supernatural power coming UPON her FROM The Holy Spirit of the triune GOD. That POWER entered into her to conceive a spirit OUT from THE HOLY SPIRIT (Joh 3:6)

"overshadow" = 1982 episkiazo: to cast a shade UPON, i.e. (by anal.) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy; fig. to INVEST with preternatural influence

As for the FLESH/BODY of triune Jesus is concerned; I don't believe it was "perfect" as you said above. But I do believe it was sinless. But scripture tells me the WORD became the LIKENESS of sin natured flesh. That's the only way Jesus could be tempted to sin.

ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son (the holy spirit of christ) in the likeness of sinful FLESH (post carnate WORD), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (post carnate WORD):

I know this is out there and not easily TAUGHT and much harder to be CAUGHT by those of us who have spent too many years indoctrinated by the 'traditions and commandments of man' for centuries.

I've been here too long, and these responses just take too much time to present. I'm getting to busy and will be stepping away again.

 

[Verily]

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect,
in whom my soul (nephesh) delighteth; I have put my spirit (ruwach ) upon him:
he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul (nephesh) an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

I can't answer every question perfectly. But IMO these two verses are speaking PROPHETICALLY to the future. Because, as I read those two scriptures JESUS hadn't been born yet. Look at all the bolded "SHALL" I made in your quote above

ROM 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who......calleth those things which be not as though they were.

What I am wondering about is people often speak of the one Spirit, but here it mentions the LORD's soul, and how the LORD's soul would delight in his servant (Jesus Christ) who obviously has a soul also.

So what I would probably ask is would you count each as having "a soul (nephesh)" (even as the LORD himself speaks of his own soul) regardless of his calling things which be not as though they were

Judges 10:16 And they put away the strange gods from among them, and served the LORD: and his soul (nephesh) was grieved for the misery of Israel.

We know Jesus had a soul (when talking about the Word made flesh) obviously, but his soul (before the Word was made flesh) is spoken of and his soul would delight in his servant Jesus (who had a soul) when the Word was made flesh. See what I mean. it does not really matter so much about calling those things that be not as though they were because He speaks of His soul before this, and speaks of his soul which would also delight in his servant Jesus (who had a soul) when he would come on the scene (or rather when the Word was made flesh).

You just never hear of anyone go into the LORD's soul, or even delighting in His servant (and in this case Jesus own soul) when he was made manifest.

No pressure, I am just trying to get a feel of where anyone might be coming from on the topic, some I believe think its a heretical thing to say the LORD has a soul. Which is weird because it speaks of the same in the scripture. I believe the heresy is called " Anthropomorphism"

I can never keep up with all the ISMS so I typically brush them off because some just dont make any sense

 

[Verily]

As for the FLESH/BODY of triune Jesus is concerned; I don't believe it was "perfect" as you said above. But I do believe it was sinless. But scripture tells me the WORD became the LIKENESS of sin natured flesh. That's the only way Jesus could be tempted to sin.

ROM 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son (the holy spirit of christ) in the likeness of sinful FLESH (post carnate WORD), and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (post carnate WORD):

And these were just men in sinful flesh when the following was said to them

Acts 14:11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the LIKENESS of men.

Whereas the Word was sent in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh. I wonder is the difference between the sayings

 

[Carl Emerson]

As for the FLESH/BODY of triune Jesus is concerned; I don't believe it was "perfect" as you said above. But I do believe it was sinless. But scripture tells me the WORD became the LIKENESS of sin natured flesh. That's the only way Jesus could be tempted to sin

I think my position is pretty similar to yours having deliberately and devotionally read scripture exclusively for over 5 years.

Regarding the paragraph above, I think you are saying His 'human spirit' was perfect but only His resurrected body was perfect (yet baring the scars)

I guess I don't agree with your last sentence as Jesus was tempted direct from Satan and didn't have a corrupted flesh to be tempted from. (unlike us)

Pity you have a time constraint, I would like to have extended the conversation to Isaiah 11 and the prophesies of Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

I think we have underestimated what happens when we are born again because of the focus on Pentecost that has become so prevalent.

 

[Verily]

Satan tempted Jesus in the same way they tempted the LORD here

Deut 6:16 Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

That doesn't mean the LORD was actually tempted but rather being tempted (or proved) or put to the test by them as Jesus also was being tempted, (or proved) or put to the test by Satan

Afterall Jesus is called a "tried stone"