Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Right.
The Logos (logic/reason/meaning/plan) preceded creation.
And THAT Logos BECAME flesh and dwelt among us.
/
And Yahweh "said". Because of our translations in English, we don't see Yahweh's name in our bibles. But, it is there. There is no doubt about Who created.
Attachments
Save it as an image on your computer and then view it as a picture. You can enlarge it to read it.
Logikos
Member
Notice how you contradict yourself.
WHEN God collides with the created order He doesn't BECOME subject to TIME.
Time is not a place or a thing, Carl. Time is an idea. It's nothing more than a way of speaking about events relative to other events. If one thing happens and then something else happens, that's time! If God does one thing and then another, He experiences time, by definition. As such you cannot speak of God doing anything outside of time without contradicting yourself just as you've done above. That isn't your fault, really, by the way. It isn't an error in the way you stated it but in the very concept itself. No one could ever avoid such a contradiction because the very concept of "doing" presupposes the concept of time, which is just the conceptual manner in which we communicate information about the duration and sequence of events.
Can you not see this flagrantly open contradiction in that sentence?
Timeless history? Really?
This harkens to a heresy that I'll ignore for now because if God isn't timeless, this is a moot point.
No, it was definitely NOT His blood that saved the first born children in Egypt! Who on Earth taught you such a thing?
Before, after, offered (past tense) - how many time words can on man use while trying to undermine the same concept?
This much, as stated, we agree on.
No it isn't. The Word IS GOD HIMSELF!
There are not three God's. There are three person's in the Godhead but that isn't the same thing. The Logos is THE Creator God.
Exactly!
Nonsense.
Neither the past nor the future exist except as concepts (i.e. memories, plans, etc). All that exists, exists now. The past is no more and the future is no yet.
Let God be true and every man a liar, especially those who would have us believe in fairy tails that have nothing to do with either scripture nor sound reason.
Logos is the root word for the English word "logic", Carl. I'm not so sure He be too happy with Logos being used to perpetuate the irrational and totally unbiblical notion that God is timeless.
This sentence is the leper's bell of the approaching con artist who wants you to believe something in contradiction to your mind. Something that he cannot defend with any argument but must merely extend as a totally unsupported claim and then declare anyone who doesn't buy as either impious or heretical or both.
God's ways are higher than our ways, Carl, not lower! God is not irrational! On the contrary, John 1 teaches explicitly that God Himself is Reason! That's what "Logos" means and that is definitely what John's Greek speaking audience would have instantly understood him to be saying in those first several verse of his gospel. "Logos" was the term that the Greeks used in reference to the "divine reason" that they believed was responsible for the order observed in the universe and that explained why our minds work and why things like mathematics work. It was that specific concept that John was intentionally employing. You simply don't get to use "Logos" to defend rational absurdities such as "timeless existence", which would be a durationless existence and therefore a nonexistent existence, which is obviously nonsensical and false.
The Logos of God
1) The Logos was from the beginning.
2) The Logos was with God.
3) The Logos was God.
4) The Logos became flesh. (and dwelt among us)
[
1) The Logos was from the beginning.
2) The Logos was with God.
3) The Logos was God.
4) The Logos became flesh. (and dwelt among us)
[
If that were true, then you could go backward or forward in time as you please. But you can't. It is not simply an idea. Time is a physical quantity. It can be measured. When we say God is outside of time, we mean that he is not constrained by time. There is no indication in God's word that time exists outside of this physical universe.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
(Gotta love the absurdity of quoting Blake Crouch quoting Ray Cummings. But the picture is pretty.)
Last edited:
Lambano
Well-Known Member
The question came up in the Godhead thread: When something changes state of being (or form, or substance, or whatever you call its particular manifestation at a particular moment), like when the Logos became Jesus, is it existentially continuous with what it was before? In other words, was the Logos still the Logos when that one became Jesus?
(Am I the same being now that I was when I was 40 years younger and 35 lbs. lighter and had an anterior cruciate ligament? I really should've bought that philosophy prof a beer.)
Last edited:
Agree.
But it seems to me that you can't go backwards.
I object to the idea that Jesus was God before the Logos became flesh.
LOL
Maybe you will have the opportunity at some point.
[
Lambano
Well-Known Member
In other words, Jesus wasn't the Logos until the Logos became Jesus? Was the Logos still the Logos after it became Jesus?
Was the 5-year-old @St. SteVen still @St. SteVen?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
How do you handle Colossians 1:16, which specifically makes Jesus instrumental in Creation?
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
Last edited:
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Sorry, 5-year-old @St. SteVen, you can't have a beer.Was the 5-year-old @St. SteVen still @St. SteVen?
This deceptive attempt of circular reasoning is a bust. Might as well just sit this one out with a cold brew..just sayingIn other words, Jesus wasn't the Logos until the Logos became Jesus? Was the Logos still the Logos after it became Jesus?
Was the 5-year-old @St. SteVen still @St. SteVen?
I would say, yes.
The Logos/logic/reason/plan/meaning is still in force today.
More like, was the twinkle in my father's eye SteVen before SteVen was born?
[
I thought you might bring that up.
Jesus, as the Logos, created: all things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones
or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
[
Carl Emerson
Well-Known Member
Seems strange that folks demand of God that His ways are logical when He says they are past finding out.
Hillsage
Well-Known Member
Jesus wasn't instrumental in creation, only the WORD was. And the WORD was not visible because the FATHER, WORD, HOLY SPIRIT were all three invisible SPIRIT.
JOH 4:24 God is spirit,
LUK 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
~The Preeminence of Christ
COL 1:15 He/JESUS is the image of the invisible God/WORD, the first-born of all creation;
16 for in him (as the WORD which became a FLESH body) all things were created,
And 'that WORD become a FLESH/BODY' was the first born body to ever be born of a woman, with a spirit of Christ in it.
And it was 'the spirit of Christ' which made Jesus the "SON OF GOD".
The WORD becoming the FLESH of Jesus made him the "SON OF MAN".
And you become a SON OF GOD when your spirit gets BORN AGAIN or BORN ANEW. You metamorphose like a caterpillar worm into a Monarch butterfly. Or as scripture says A NEW CREATION.
2CO 5:17 Therefore, if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come.
GAL 6:15 For neither circumcision counts for anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
You become a "new creation" when you have the same spirit Jesus was born with in His FLESH BODY.
1CO 6:17* But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
The "ONE SPIRIT" that made Jesus a son makes all born again humans MALE OR FEMALE....sons of God after the spirit of Christ.
Similar threads
