Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?

[Brakelite]

St. SteVen said:
But is that really a threat?

Great post, thanks.
I also think the church swung too far in the religious direction away from human secular progress. Many "good" things came out of the renaissance in terms of human expression and thought that was previously suppressed by the church.

Do you see a need for balance in that area?

[

The pendulum has been swinging from one extreme to another for several hundred years, and such has been the plan of Satan all along. It is s political paradigm based on the philosophy of Hegel, whereby order is brought out of chaos. Hence why most political contests are between just 2 sides. Liberal/ conservative... left/ right... socialism- communism/capitalism... and their numerous party affiliations, mindsets, philosophies etc. Extremes are designed and pushed to go further and further to the limit. Thesis versus antithesis. But the powers that be do not want any free chosen options. A democratic or republic concept is far from their goal. They want their idea to prevail, and that means utter control and power. But how to get there without upsetting the entire population of the world? Create the friction... the contest... the conflict, and finally complete chaos. Both sides get so tired of the conflict, they cry out for relief. The pain of loss of freedoms is considered worth the painconnoisseur to that which comes from chaos. They welcome a solution, and the creators of the chaos of course are only too happy to provide the solution. Neither antithesis or thesis was what they wanted, but synthesis. And the world will welcome with open arms, that which in better times they would despise and reject outright. That my friend is just around the corner. And why voting for, joining with, collaborating with or uniting with either party is simply playing into their hands, and why the only alternative is to stop playing political games with the devil and return to building the kingdom of God.

 

[Spyder]

As it was in the days of Noah....

 

[St. SteVen]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Where's the ethics in that? Should people be tricked into the kingdom?

Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

[

 

[quietthinker]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Where's the ethics in that? Should people be tricked into the kingdom?

Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

[

The value of Grace seen by the individual generates an affection that desires to be inline with God's character.
Piling on the expectations as you have listed above is the result of not seeing Grace. It is fundamentally not seen because its beauty is not presented.
That which is presented is yada yada which exploits the term Grace but is just a head job. It delivers no wonder that rivets our hearts.

 

[St. SteVen]

The value of Grace seen by the individual generates an affection that desires to be inline with God's character.
Piling on the expectations as you have listed above is the result of not seeing Grace. It is fundamentally not seen because its beauty is not presented.
That which is presented is yada yada which exploits the term Grace but is just a head job. It delivers no wonder that rivets our hearts.

Wow.
You and I are thinking along the same lines.
I just posted this topic before reading your post.

Speak to the value of following Jesus

Typically evangelizing the "lost" focuses on why Christianity is true. A convincing argument is hoped to win the day and produce a new convert. Assuming all the concerns of the prospect can be dissuaded. However, I was thinking this morning about the day-to-day benefits. The positive...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Brakelite]

I have family that have heard the salvation story. The like the idea of the "gift." What they don't like is knowing that the way they are living will not fit into a lifestyle devoted to God and in obedience to all the Jesus commanded.

For them, that "gift" has a price. Despite my telling them that the lifestyle change will be something that happens willingly because of their love for God. They still see it as something they have to pay.

I think that is the difference.

They are correct. There is a price. But we don't pay it. The cost of our redemption is a package deal along with the free gift. The cost that God paid was infinite, in that for all eternity His Son will be a man. That was the free gift... Christ Himself becoming a human person like us. God gave His only begotten Son. And wrapped up in that Gift, to be received by every individual, is a new life. That new life which replaces the old... That new creature we become after being born again, of also a part of the gift we receive in Christ. What we gain personally... The assurance of salvation; the joy and peace that comes with knowing our Saviour; the new experiences and promises of a future hope secure for eternity, far outweigh the cost of what we give up to the Lord... What Paul describes as dung... What Peter describes as dross... What other Bible writers describe as addictions, sin, superficial emotionally dependant pleasure etc etc, "are nothing compared with the glory that is to be revealed in us",
B“28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. 31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. ”
Romans 8:28-39 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

What do we profit? Everything. It isn't a cost, its a sure-fire guaranteed investment.
Your mortal sickly problem ravaged sin infested chaotic existence here in exchange for eternal joy and happiness? And that happiness doesn't start later, but right now, the moment we receive that free gift, that "abundant life" begins.
I guess if we value our present dead existence without Christ then it becomes a cost. I'm no bookkeeper, but I imagine there's a term for a worthless initial outlay that is made in exchange for eternal glory. Salvation?

 

[Soyeong]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Where's the ethics in that? Should people be tricked into the kingdom?

Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift intrinsically required them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work contributes nothing to detract from the fact that the opportunity to drive it was given as a free gift.

Similarly, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, not for how to contribute anything towards earning it. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life. Likewise, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments.

In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has absolutely nothing to do with trying to contribute anything towards earning our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be experience being a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation.

 

[St. SteVen]

... in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments.

So, it really isn't free then?

My point in this topic, is that the "free" aspect is not clear to the prospect being evangelized.
Therefore, it becomes a questionable sales tactic.

[

 

[Ritajanice]

We’ve been set free from sin,yes.

But...we aren’t free imo to live as we once did.

Were children of God....we are no longer children of this world.

A Born Again belongs to God....he can and does use us, on however it pleases him.

We are being conformed into Jesus image...

My will has dissipated....Gods will is in control....it’s a long hard journey....one where we will never stop growing and maturing in the Spirit....

Most of the time I’m alone...just God and myself...then this is like my spiritual home...where I fellowship with believers...just my thoughts.

 

[St. SteVen]

We’ve been set free from sin,yes.

But...we aren’t free imo to live as we once did.

Were children of God....we are no longer children of this world.

Agree.

Question: Were you put off by all the requirements the church wanted to put on you when you first believed?

- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

[

 

[Soyeong]

So, it really isn't free then?

My point in this topic, is that the "free" aspect is not clear to the prospect being evangelized.
Therefore, it becomes a questionable sales tactic.

[

Something that we inherit is a gift that we receive for free. The problem is more with the misconception that obeying God's law is about earning a wage rather than about being a free gift. If you gave someone the free gift of experiencing driving a Ferrari for an hour, then it would be incorrect for them to think that it wasn't really free because your gift required them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience.

 

[St. SteVen]

The problem is more with the misconception that obeying God's law is about earning a wage rather than about being a free gift.

How can obeying laws be a free gift? It costs something, right?

What do you mean when you write "God's law"?

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Soyeong]

How can obeying laws be a free gift? It costs something, right?

What do you mean when you write "God's law"?

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

- What's the difference between the law and the Law? (capital L) - What's the difference between the law and God's law? - What's the difference between the law, God's law, and Christ's law? The law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law; four different things. Agree, or disagree? Points...

www.christianityboard.com

[

Teaching someone to do something can be the content of a gift. For example, a professional musician could teach someone how to play an instrument as a free gift to them. In the same way, God graciously teaching us to obey His law is a gift to us. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law.

 

[St. SteVen]

Teaching someone to do something can be the content of a gift. For example, a professional musician could teach someone how to play an instrument as a free gift to them. In the same way, God graciously teaching us to obey His law is a gift to us. In Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law.

I need to repeat my post #108

So, it really isn't free then?

My point in this topic, is that the "free" aspect is not clear to the prospect being evangelized.
Therefore, it becomes a questionable sales tactic.

What do you say to that?

[

 

[Behold]

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

People like the poster.....who do not understand The Cross........ or "The Gift of Righteousness"

Here is where they lost the Track (generously assuming they are on it).

it happens not long after the believer believes.
And they are caused to misunderstand their Salvation. BY... the principal ministry of the Devil, regarding a Christian, which is to ruin your faith.
Its to keep you from the correct understanding of what it means to be "made righteous".

Reader, Here is one of the ways, that you spot a person who might be saved......yet they have no understanding of God's Salvation that has been given to them, based on their ....."faith being counted by God" .....as providing all that God requires so that God then gives them His Son's Salvation.
See, Salvation is what Jesus "finished" on the Cross, as He Said "IT is Finished" from the Cross.
We dont finish it.... He already did........we RECEIVE IT.. as "the Gift of Salvation" and "The Gift of Righteousness" and "The Gift of Eternal Life".

So, what most Christians are not understanding........and here is how you spot them........they will say....>.

1.) "You can lose your salvation"........as if YOU are responsible for it, vs God delivering it to you from THE CROSS, as "the GIFT of Salvation".

So, when they have that type of broken faith (non understanding of their Salvation,) .. then what they believe is salvation is, their Discipleship, and that is why they think they can "lose it".. as they know they have not been a perfect disciple.

See, once you are trying to stay saved, and not lose your salvation, then the Devil has blinded you, and ruined your faith.

Listen,
Discipleship is what we do, because we are ALREADY Eternally saved.... having Eternal life.
And we got this Eternal life that is our Salvation, that is our forgiveness of sin.... "while we were yet sinners"., and BELIEVED.

And now that we have been eternally accepted by God, through the Cross of Christ, based on God accepting our Faith... we are now and forever become an "Heir of God" and a "Joint Heir with Jesus'.........and we exist "IN Christ" as "one with God" = Born again, into the KOG.
This is why a real bible says that all CHRISTians are "seated in Heavenly Places in Christ".....right now.

See that? God did all that for the born again BELIEVERs... , and that is not a water baptized religious fakir who uses the bible to try to dispute it, or falsely accuse God.
===============================================================================================


And now that we are become born again, as "the righteousness of God in Christ".........we then proceed to learn how to live a Godly Life, as a Christian. = our Discipleship.

A famous Christian once wrote/said..... ""Jesus became my sin, and i became His Righteousness"".

And that is a fact, regarding """all who call on the name of Jesus.....shall be Saved"""".. and are..... forever.. "not by our works but according to God's mercy = HE saved us".

So, if you are trying to do that for yourself.. if you are trying to keep yourself saved, or you are trying not to lose your salvation.... then your understanding of Salvation is broken.
Your faith is Broken.

 

[St. SteVen]

People like the poster.....who do not understand The Cross........ or "The Gift of Righteousness"

That's not the point.
I wish respondents actually read the OP. (sigh)

[

 

[Soyeong]

I need to repeat my post #108

What do you say to that?

[

I explained how doing those works does not detract from the fact that it was given as a free gift.

 

[St. SteVen]

I explained how doing those works does not detract from the fact that it was given as a free gift.

Bait and switch then?

[

 

[Behold]

That's not the point.
I wish respondents actually read the OP. (sigh)

[

You impeach God and accuse God , falsely.
Your Thread's Topic is to try to falsely prove that God's Salvation is anything but free, and people like Ritajance who can't understand what you are doing here, are the very people you harm.

 

[Ritajanice]

You impeach God and accuse God , falsely.
Your Thread's Topic is to try to falsely prove that God's Salvation is anything but free, and people like Ritajance who can't understand what you are doing here, are the very people you harm.

Are you telling me that we are free to do as we please, after our spirit is Born Again?

No one I can assure you, can harm me and let’s face it you’ve tried....I won’t go into full detail..

Pot kettle black.....I’m a child of God, under his protection under his power...none can penetrate this heart/ spirit...only the Spirit can testify/ witness to my spirit...Praise God...and God has spoken to me through Ststeven and you at times...you talk in the Spirit at times ,Behold...you also speak a load nonsense at times as well to me.....telling me I’m demon possessed ,under the cult of Calvin...etc.....imo....