Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?

[Behold]

I thought revenge was a sin. Doesn't Jesus teach us to love our enemies?

What have you done, that you feel i need to "revenge"?

Are you my enemy, ???? @St. SteVen

 

[Brakelite]

Forgive me if I've missed it, but it appears that everyone is overlooking something. Everyone's favourite scripture tells us the cost.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son...,"

There you have it. Salvation costs us nothing. But it cost God everything.

 

[St. SteVen]

There you have it. Salvation costs us nothing. But it cost God everything.

Was that really ALL that God had? A son, nothing else?

Is that it? Nothing expected from us? Life goes on as usual?

/

 

[Brakelite]

Was that really ALL that God had? A son, nothing else?

Is that it? Nothing expected from us? Life goes on as usual?

/

Oh, we need to die also. But all we are sacrificing is crap lives lived for selfish pleasure and useless ambition. Compared to what God sacrificed.... Redemption costs us nothing. Ultimate salvation is another story.

 

[Behold]

Nothing expected from us?

/

God expects us to learn some Bible.

For example..

Hebrews 13:9 and Romans 3:21-28.

God expects us to understand that we didnt save ourselves and once we are saved, we still can't do it.

That is : Understanding #1,..... and most never comprehend it, and that is why they are "confessing sin" and live AS this verse..

= Hebrews 6:1.

 

[Wynona]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Where's the ethics in that? Should people be tricked into the kingdom?

Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

If someone gave you a costly exotic plant, that plant is a free gift.

If you did nothing with the plant, it would die.

Does that mean the plant cost you money?

Free of cost and free of effort are two separate things.

No matter what you have to do to fully enjoy the life of the plant and get the full benefits, that plant cost you zero dollars.

I agree that churches need to be more honest about the cost in terms of difficulty and effort. But salvation is still a free gift.

 

[Behold]

Free of cost and free of effort are two separate things.

The Effort to save a Believer, is Christ on the Cross.

This is both the GIft and the Effort, combined.

Jesus is Salvation.

John 14:6

We can't "do that one".. but after we receive it, we can give God our LIVES, in appreciation, as Paul teaches this as our "reasonable service".

That is defined as : Discipleship.........not Salvation.

 

[Johann]

This is a good question S.S.,
The gift of salvation is free, of course! But the cost of "following" Him is everything you got.

Maybe the opening should be changed to something like; "Anything that is worth anything, does not come easy". Oh, but the rewards of serving Jesus and loving God, cannot be compared to anything this world could offer. "Pleasures forever at His right hand"!

Hope someone else chimes in here, people want real hope out there, not the same ole same ole. You are right S.S., the approach to evangelizing should be considered.

I remember when churches used to be not just about preaching, but also about putting faith into action. They took the words of Matthew 25 to heart, meeting the needs of those in their communities—the poor, the needy, and those living on the outskirts of towns and cities. Churches had outreach ministries that really lived out the call to care for "the least of these" (Matthew 25:40). People even opened their homes to others.

The church I was involved with was much like David Wilkerson's ministry, going out into the streets and bringing people in. I even had the chance to meet Nicky Cruz in South Africa, who was a powerful testimony of God’s transforming grace.

But it feels like those days are long gone. James 1:27 reminds us that "pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world." Yet, it seems like that kind of practical, hands-on faith is harder to find today. We need to get back to that kind of love in action.

Just thinking out loud.
Johann

 

[St. SteVen]

Just thinking out loud.
Johann

Good post, thanks.

[

 

[Nancy]

I remember when churches used to be not just about preaching, but also about putting faith into action. They took the words of Matthew 25 to heart, meeting the needs of those in their communities—the poor, the needy, and those living on the outskirts of towns and cities. Churches had outreach ministries that really lived out the call to care for "the least of these" (Matthew 25:40). People even opened their homes to others.

The church I was involved with was much like David Wilkerson's ministry, going out into the streets and bringing people in. I even had the chance to meet Nicky Cruz in South Africa, who was a powerful testimony of God’s transforming grace.

But it feels like those days are long gone. James 1:27 reminds us that "pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world." Yet, it seems like that kind of practical, hands-on faith is harder to find today. We need to get back to that kind of love in action.

Just thinking out loud.
Johann

Oh yes, the Cross and the Switchblade! Forgot about that book!
My little churches motto is that we are the hands and feet of Jesus in our village and they sure are. It is almost small enough to be a house church...charity starts at home amen.
And yes, we do need to get back to that kind of Christ living.
Cool that you met Nicky Cruz, what a testimony!

 

[St. SteVen]

Oh yes, the Cross and the Switchblade! Forgot about that book!

I was too young and rebellious when I read that book. The result was that I bought a switchblade. Fortunately, I never stabbed anyone with it. But it was quite the attraction when I brought it with me to Bible camp. Everyone wanted to try it. (with the appropriate facial expression) The knife is long gone. I gave it to a friend.

[

 

[Johann]

Oh yes, the Cross and the Switchblade! Forgot about that book!
My little churches motto is that we are the hands and feet of Jesus in our village and they sure are. It is almost small enough to be a house church...charity starts at home amen.
And yes, we do need to get back to that kind of Christ living.
Cool that you met Nicky Cruz, what a testimony!

Those were the days, @Nancy, but I feel that a certain formality has crept into the churches—no longer the warm-hearted openness that once defined our fellowship. As it is written in Romans 12:10, 'Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves.' We must remember to be the hands and feet of our Lord Jesus Christ, embodying His love and service as it says in James 2:17, 'Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.' So let us roll up our sleeves and resist the comfort of complacency. Nicky and I were good friends, and I cherish the bond we shared, much like the friendship between David and Jonathan, described in 1 Samuel 18:1-3.

Here was "The Ark" in Durban.

Man continues to fight against eThekwini for Durban homeless shelter justice | The Citizen

The Ark residents were evicted in 2004 to make way for a property development which has not yet manifested.

www.citizen.co.za

Shalom to you and family.
Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

I remember when churches used to be not just about preaching, but also about putting faith into action. They took the words of Matthew 25 to heart, meeting the needs of those in their communities—the poor, the needy, and those living on the outskirts of towns and cities. Churches had outreach ministries that really lived out the call to care for "the least of these" (Matthew 25:40). People even opened their homes to others.

The church I was involved with was much like David Wilkerson's ministry, going out into the streets and bringing people in. I even had the chance to meet Nicky Cruz in South Africa, who was a powerful testimony of God’s transforming grace.

But it feels like those days are long gone. James 1:27 reminds us that "pure and undefiled religion before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unstained from the world." Yet, it seems like that kind of practical, hands-on faith is harder to find today. We need to get back to that kind of love in action.

Just thinking out loud.
Johann

Amen...it seems like the church is in retreat and that's why it has lost so much ground in the west. Completely distracted by politics and trying to preserve a "way of life". It makes me think of where Jesus said if we try to save our life we will lose it.

 

[Johann]

Amen...it seems like the church is in retreat and that's why it has lost so much ground in the west. Completely distracted by politics and trying to preserve a "way of life". It makes me think of where Jesus said if we try to save our life we will lose it.

Amen sister-- you're absolutely right. It feels like the church has lost focus on its true mission, getting caught up in preserving traditions rather than living out the Gospel. Jesus' warning in Matthew 16:25 about losing our life if we try to save it is so relevant today. It reminds us that our calling isn't to cling to worldly power or comfort, but to serve and love others as Christ did. Maybe this is a wake-up call to return to the heart of our faith, where the church isn't defined by its influence in society, but by its commitment to the teachings of Jesus and the love we show to others.

You have a blessed day now and hope you feel better.
Johann.

 

[Brakelite]

The church today is rightly disturbed regarding social issues. Marriage. Abortion. Gay rights. The secularisation of society. But those things are mere symptoms of a far greater threat to the gospel. The secularisation of the church.

 

[St. SteVen]

The church today is rightly disturbed regarding social issues. Marriage. Abortion. Gay rights. The secularisation of society. But those things are mere symptoms of a far greater threat to the gospel. The secularisation of the church.

That's a curious view. "The secularisation of society." and "The secularisation of the church."

Shouldn't we expect that society would be secularized? Perhaps you are referring to society, which was formerly (somewhere/sometime) more religiously centered, had given way to secular thought? And that you are seeing the same pattern in the church?

But is that really a threat?

I wonder if the church is being drawn out of its insular bubble into the "real" world. Interesting to note how Jesus dealt with this. He ran toward it, not away from it. Religious leaders asked...

Matthew 9:11 NIV
When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

[

 

[Brakelite]

formerly (somewhere/sometime) more religiously centered, had given way to secular thought?

A Western hemisphere issue on a massive scale.

And that you are seeing the same pattern in the church?

As above, yes.

But is that really a threat?

A threat in two ways. First, to the true gospel. The church is now joining with political power to establish its own righteousness upon society. The true gospel however teaches us that the only righteousness worth having is Christ's, and that comes to us by faith. The Bible prophets, with the possible exception of Daniel who without any personal ambition whatsoever, spoke to power. They did not seek power, nor join with power in a union between church and state. History has several examples of how such an arrangement went utterly wrong. Calvin's Geneva. Cromwell's England. The papacy throughout the dark ages. And that is where the second threat arises. Where the true church finds itself outside the orthodoxy of the established state approved form of worship. That's where Revelation 13 comes into play. And America right now is going down that very dangerous road.
That's what I mean by the secularisation of the church. It has forgotten or discarded the true gospel in favour of politics.

 

[Brakelite]

Perhaps you are referring to society, which was formerly (somewhere/sometime) more religiously centered, had given way to secular thought?

Absolutely. Less than 50 years ago the general populace would have been horrified at the angst and vitriol thrown against Christians specifically and Christianity in general by anti Christians today. And government policies, particularly in the areas of marriage, gay pride, abortion, and gender related issueshave fed the angst with asteroids. The reaction today in the media, and society in general concerning the bitterness against Christians is "so what? They must deserve it".

And that you are seeing the same pattern in the church?

Yes. Just look through some of the current posts and threads on this site, and consider the reaction professed Christians are exercising. They are reacting in the same manner as their enemies. Using politics to establish their brand of righteousness, and believing this is the good news for America. They are deceived by a false gospel. The societal issues that we face in the western world are serious, but they aren't the main problem. They are mere symptoms of a deeper malaise and compromise within the church itself. There was a time when the church preached the true gospel... righteousness by faith.
“2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. ” Romans 10:2,3.

But is that really a threat?

Yes, in two ways. First, it's a threat to the true gospel, as described above. Secondly, it's a threat to the church. The Bible prophets spoke to power. Jeremiah. Elijah. Daniel. John the Baptist. They didn't seek to join with power and form a union with power in order to establish righteousness. They didn't seek political favour. They didn't expect the power to work on behalf of the church. How different the modern church. The threat then becomes focused against those in the church who choose, according to their God given liberty and freedom of conscience, to believing doctrine not within the realms of so called "orthodoxy" and coming under condemnation for their "stubborn, heretical, rebellious, extreme, fundamentalist individualism". Revelation 13 describes the future of such a society where a union of church and state uses financial sanctions and ultimately the death sentence against such dissenters.
Such a scenario is not too far distant.

 

[Brakelite]

Sorry about the two replies above saying much the same thing. I didn't see the first one, and thought it didn't get posted.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
But is that really a threat?

A threat in two ways. First, to the true gospel. The church is now joining with political power to establish its own righteousness upon society. The true gospel however teaches us that the only righteousness worth having is Christ's, and that comes to us by faith. The Bible prophets, with the possible exception of Daniel who without any personal ambition whatsoever, spoke to power. They did not seek power, nor join with power in a union between church and state. History has several examples of how such an arrangement went utterly wrong. Calvin's Geneva. Cromwell's England. The papacy throughout the dark ages. And that is where the second threat arises. Where the true church finds itself outside the orthodoxy of the established state approved form of worship. That's where Revelation 13 comes into play. And America right now is going down that very dangerous road.
That's what I mean by the secularisation of the church. It has forgotten or discarded the true gospel in favour of politics.

Great post, thanks.
I also think the church swung too far in the religious direction away from human secular progress. Many "good" things came out of the renaissance in terms of human expression and thought that was previously suppressed by the church.

Do you see a need for balance in that area?

[