Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?

[St. SteVen]

Problem I have with so many "Christian" books is that they are trying to re-invent the wheel that God has already invented....and in a subtle way it robs Him of His glory. ....

Doesn't it say in the bible to let your words be few?

So, you are condemning the writings of Christian authors?

Maybe you need to count your posts to see if you are in violation of your own condemnation:

"Doesn't it say in the bible to let your words be few?" - Lizbeth

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[Lizbeth]

So, you are condemning the writings of Christian authors?

Maybe you need to count your posts to see if you are in violation of your own condemnation:

"Doesn't it say in the bible to let your words be few?" - Lizbeth

/

Not all of them. But didn't Solomon say of the writing of books there is no end? He apparently had cottoned on to the vanity of it. I've read a few in my time and that is why I prefer to stick to the bible. Books can help some people be engaged I guess, but a huge problem is that until they know the bible well enough to critique and test what they are reading they tend to just imbibe everything they read that is written by people they just assume know what they are talking about.

I've already discerned (by grace) the book you were recommending and dont' even need to read it to know it is leading astray. It's like the "scent" of something new agey in my nostrils. God's word says signs follow the preaching of the gospel and to HIM be the glory, not to some author. Don't we have faith to just receive His word and expect it to happen? The more we get things straight from the horse's mouth, GOD's word, the plumbline, the better off we are in general. Doesn't mean perfect necessarily by any means...there is always that matter of growing and maturing.....and because there are other things that get in the way as has always been the reality of the war we are in. The devil comes at us relentlessly from every direction. The undiluted, unfiltered, untampered with scriptures are a vital weapon in the war....and the Spirit and word agree.

 

[Behold]

The sample of grace is free. To have the full measure of the product (grace) we need to sell all and buy it as per Jesus. Any other consideration is a false gospel.

What verse in a Bible says that The Cross of Christ is a "Sample"?

What verse in a BIBLE, says that we are to "buy it and then SELL IT" ?

Buy it with what?
"Sell it" to whom?
Your Theology is not a good sell.... @Episkopos

God is not going to buy it from you., and that is because God's Grace is "Grace through Faith", "without works".


Welcome To : Salvation.

Its, "The GIFT of Salvation".

 

[St. SteVen]

I've already discerned (by grace) the book you were recommending and dont' even need to read it to know it is leading astray.

Tell me what you discerned about it. I'm pretty sure you know nothing about it.
You are probably just projecting your distrust of me onto a book. Not fair to the author. IMHO

If you actually have discernment, it would be a good book for you.

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[Behold]

If you actually have discernment, it would be a good book for you.

/

Are you aware that your Author is associated with the "Bethel" group, and that he is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College?

Discern that.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are you aware that your Author is associated with the "Bethel" group, and that he is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College?

Discern that.

You say that as if it is a bad thing. Not sure why, other than divisive tribalism.
Why would you trash a brother in Christ?

]

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This is the evangelical bait-and-switch.
Where's the ethics in that? Should people be tricked into the kingdom?

Do we lead someone to Christ and then cut them loose? Nope.
They need to be discipled, right?

So we pile on the expectations.
- Daily Bible reading and prayer.
- Regular church attendance and tithing.
- Sharing the Gospel.
- Discipling others.
- Good works.

So much for a free gift.
It's a free gift... it will cost you everything.

To anyone who may be insulted by this post, consider this...
Jesus said to count the cost, to take up the cross daily and follow.

When we lead with the "free gift" of eternal life, are we being completely honest?
"Here's your free gift; goodbye; see you in heaven."

Or if someone isn't interested in our "free gift",
we warn them that eternal hell fire awaits those who refuse the "free gift".

What sort of "free gift" is that? (extortion)

This was the topic of a Bible study my husband and I went to at a coffee house. I still feel the same as I did that night, although I was too afraid to speak up in the group talking about how it cost nothing.

To me it cost everything but it can’t be purchased with money. I do think Jesus taught it takes removing the old and putting on the New. To me giving up your image, for the sake of being found having His image and not our own …cost giving up the bling of dressing ourselves in beautiful, religious garments to be seen of men. Not an easy thing to give up. Maybe the hardest of all. Like in Revelation where the queen sits and says she is no widow and has suffered no loss. She glorifies herself. To me that is the hardest to give up …the cost of giving up ones own image for His. The cost not money but is “free” from bondage. For example Paul says it cost him everything but what was loss, he counted those things a dung to win Christ, to be found having the righteousness that comes from God and not from man. Personally I think it’s misleading to tell people if they say a little prayer there is no cost…it’s “free” go home and continue as you were. No skin off your back. With their never knowing or being prepared for, it’s going to hurt.

 

[St. SteVen]

To me it cost everything but it can’t be purchased with money.

Agree. That's the real point here.
And I think this needs to be communicated in evangelism.
The prospect needs to understand that a commitment is required.

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[VictoryinJesus]

Agree. That's the real point here.
And I think this needs to be communicated in evangelism.
The prospect needs to understand that a commitment is required.

/

I’m reminded of that night we went to the study. There was a young man there who had the group fired up. He was bashing Peter. Strutting around saying how he loved God more than Peter and how he would NEVER deny God like Peter. Everyone was feeding into it. I can’t say anything because I was too embarrassed to speak up to say anything. But this was during the same topic of applauding how it cost nothing and it’s free. The young man was young and I get, he believed (persuaded) he was far superior to Peter and would never do such things. I get it was for attention from the others. But I was thinking…don’t say that please. Having seen what comes next could be revealing just how weak and in need one is. Just sharing on the topic of how quickly we boast “it’s free”…but I think of that young man and how a time will most likely come that he’ll give up that grandeur he had that night.

 

[St. SteVen]

I’m reminded of that night we went to the study. There was a young man there who had the group fired up. He was bashing Peter. Strutting around saying how he loved God more than Peter and how he would NEVER deny God like Peter. Everyone was feeding into it. I can’t say anything because I was too embarrassed to speak up to say anything. But this was during the same topic of applauding how it cost nothing and it’s free. The young man was young and I get, he believed (persuaded) he was far superior to Peter and would never do such things. I get it was for attention from the others. But I was thinking…don’t say that please. Having seen what comes next could be revealing just how weak and in need one is. Just sharing on the topic of how quickly we boast “it’s free”…but I think of that young man and how a time will most likely come that he’ll give up that grandeur he had that night.

Yes, it seems the young man wanted to declare his level of zeal, yet displayed his immaturity. Had he not read this... ???

1 Peter 5:5 NIV
In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders.
All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”[a]

]

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, it seems the young man wanted to declare his level of zeal, yet displayed his immaturity. Had he not read this... ???

1 Peter 5:5 NIV
In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders.
All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because,
“God opposes the proud
but shows favor to the humble.”[a]

]

I’m not bashing him. He was a nice kid. But you could tell he was broken and needing attention to feel like he was worth something. What stands out to me mostly is the older ones in the group and how they encouraged it. To me that is what goes with your topic the most. Where he was being told it’s free and cost nothing. To me it was ironic in saying this when it cost this pride and arrogance we all struggle with. there just seemed to be conflicting messages that night.

 

[St. SteVen]

I’m not bashing him. He was a nice kid. But you could tell he was broken and needing attention to feel like he was worth something. What stands out to me mostly is the older ones in the group and how they encouraged it. To me that is what goes with your topic the most. Where he was being told it’s free and cost nothing. To me it was ironic in saying this when it cost this pride and arrogance we all struggle with. there just seemed to be conflicting messages that night.

Yes, these "support" groups tend to lead to a lot of glad-handing and an echo chamber environment. Challenging thoughts aren't welcome. The sense of tribalism bristles at any disagreement with the status quo. (unbeliever?)

I bring challenges to my small group meetings. Which are occasionally met with stares, or uncomfortable silence. - LOL

I'm not afraid of stares, or uncomfortable silence. I am prepared to to explain my seemingly off-the-wall comments.

]

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, these "support" groups tend lead to a lot of glad-handing and an echo chamber environment. Challenging thoughts aren't welcome. The sense of tribalism bristles at any disagreement with the status quo. (unbeliever?)

I bring challenges to my small group meetings. Which are occasionally met with stares, or uncomfortable silence. - LOL

I'm not afraid of stares, or uncomfortable silence. I am prepared to to explain my seemingly off-the-wall comments.

]

People come from different walks though. I’m glad you can speak up, not being ashamed to do so. I’m like a mouse whenever I get in a group. Maybe this comes from years of how the woman shouldn’t run her mouth, so I hold it in. I don’t speak up until I’m in the car with my husband and share with him what I was thinking. He’s like “why didn’t you share that while we were in there?” He and I also come from different backgrounds and walks. He doesn’t understand my mouth clamping shut in a group of people. I’m just not comfortable and have this mindset to keep quiet. But I do care for the people when I’m in a group. I want to invest and help. But I’ve also learned my husband can say the same thing I would say and people will hear it. Whenever I say the same, not so much. You maybe can relate if I put it this way. Have you ever told love ones things and they don’t want to hear what you have to say…yet let a stranger tell them the same thing and they hear them?

 

[St. SteVen]

People come from different walks though. I’m glad you can speak up, not being ashamed to do so. I’m like a mouse whenever I get in a group. Maybe this comes from years of how the woman shouldn’t run her mouth, so I hold it in. I don’t speak up until I’m in the car with my husband and share with him what I was thinking. He’s like “why didn’t you share that while we were in there?” He and I also come from different backgrounds and walks. He doesn’t understand my mouth clamping shut in a group of people. I’m just not comfortable and have this mindset to keep quiet. But I do care for the people when I’m in a group. I want to invest and help. But I’ve also learned my husband can say the same thing I would say and people will hear it. Whenever I say the same, not so much. You maybe can relate if I put it this way. Have you ever told love ones things and they don’t want to hear what you have to say…yet let a stranger tell them the same thing and they hear them?

My wife is similar. She has done better in her women's group meetings, and sometimes in a mixed group at our new church. You should only speak up if you are comfortable doing so. If I am facilitating a group I will notice who isn't sharing and encourage them to speak if they want to. Oftentimes a quiet person will share if they are asked to, but I don't force it.

The key word in my paragraph above is "facilitate". I prefer a group setting where we sit in circle, or all facing each other at the same level, and anyone can speak. I prepare discussion questions to facilitate GROUP discussion. I'm not there to TEACH. Oftentimes I'll keep my position to myself unless asked. Sometimes I'll even lead a group to discuss something I am undecided on. Sometimes the questions are more important than the answers. IMHO

]

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My wife is similar. She has done better in her women's group meetings, and sometimes in a mixed group at our new church. You should only speak up if you are comfortable doing so. If I am facilitating a group I will notice who isn't sharing and encourage them to speak if they want to. Oftentimes a quiet person will share if they are asked to, but I don't force it.

The key word in my paragraph above is "facilitate". I prefer a group setting where we sit in circle, or all facing each other at the same level, and anyone can speak. I prepare discussion questions to facilitate GROUP discussion. I'm not there to TEACH. Oftentimes I'll keep my position to myself unless asked. Sometimes I'll even lead a group to discuss something I am undecided on. Sometimes the questions are more important than the answers. IMHO

]

It would be nice to find a group such as this. I know enough women who through their love for Him, they are always going above and beyond for me. Treating me like a sister. Good friends who don’t ask for anything in return but show up out of nowhere for birthdays, low times, to bring cookies or devotional books. None of them know each other. I don’t know why I haven’t opened my home to bring them together for a meal so they can get to know each other, since they all have a commonality. After talking to you this morning…I need follow through with that since each one of them is looking for fellowship and comfort as well.

 

[St. SteVen]

It would be nice to find a group such as this. I know enough women who through their love for Him, they are always going above and beyond for me. Treating me like a sister. Good friends who don’t ask for anything in return but show up out of nowhere for birthdays, low times, to bring cookies or devotional books. None of them know each other. I don’t know why I haven’t opened my home to bring them together for a meal so they can get to know each other, since they all have a commonality. After talking to you this morning…I need follow through with that since each one of them is looking for fellowship and comfort as well.

You just MADE my day.

That's a GREAT idea! Please report back to let us know how it went. (to quell my own curiosity)
Don't be discouraged if it is slow to get rolling. That can be the nature of such things.

Zechariah 4:10 NET
... who dares make light of small beginnings?...

]

 

[Behold]

Why would you trash a brother in Christ?

I didnt say anything about the person that could be considered as : "trashing".

I stated some History related to His actual Ministry.

See, i teach, and have a Thread about this, or 2, ... that teach.. that before you give your mind over to a Theology or to a Teacher... whether they be an online Forum, or video only, or website, or a writer of books and commentaries.... or if they are a TV Preacher, or a Pope...or have a 30,000 "seater", church...

Before you just "go all in", and "dive into their Theology", as millions have done with Calvinism, and ended up theologically broken, and faith ruined....... you have to do some background work and find out their core Theology, regarding some specific NT doctrines.

So, in the case of your Book writer, i simply posted that He is related to the "Bethel" Group, and He's a Charismatic regarding His Theology, and He's the scholastic end product of a Charismatic College .

Those are just the basic fact about your Author.

Now..... How someone perceives these facts, that would cause them to want to "dig into" your author's Theology or pass altogether...., is up to them, as everyone has Free Will to chose to read and learn what they want to know. @St. SteVen

 

[St. SteVen]

I didnt say anything about the person that could be considered as : "trashing".

That's a pretty thin veneer. Here's your post quote below.

Are you aware that your Author is associated with the "Bethel" group, and that he is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College?

Discern that.

"Are you aware that your Author is associated with the "Bethel" group,
and that he is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College?
Discern that."

Yup. Trashing the author, Bethel church, Charismatics and a Charismatic College. (and discernment, I suppose)

]

 

[Behold]

That's a pretty thin veneer. Here's your post quote below.

"Are you aware that your Author is associated with the "Bethel" group,
and that he is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College?
Discern that."

Yup. Trashing the author, Bethel church, Charismatics and a Charismatic College. (and discernment, I suppose)

]

Let me show you..


@Behold previously posted.

"""""""""Are you aware that your Author, is associated with the Bethel Group.. and that He is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College..."""""""

I then said to you = "Discern that", as you had been sarcastic to a previous poster, regarding their "Discernment".

So, my Post was just showing you that on the one hand you are critically sarcastic of people who wont jump on board with your bizarre theology, and your Threads that try to cast doubt on the Bible, or Jesus, when you associate His teaching with "heresy".

See, you do this type of "mild slandering" of Christ and the Bible and of others on this Fourm, .. .yet you never even took 2 mins to find out the actual history of the author, regarding the book you are trying to sell us.

So, "discern that'", i told you. @St. SteVen

 

[St. SteVen]

@Behold previously posted.

"""""""""Are you aware that your Author, is associated with the Bethel Group.. and that He is a Charismatic, and is the end result of a Charismatic College..."""""""

I then said to you = "Discern that", as you had been sarcastic to a previous poster, regarding their "Discernment".

So, my Post was just showing you that on the one hand you are critically sarcastic of people who wont jump on board with your bizarre theology, and your Threads that try to cast doubt on the Bible, or Jesus, when you associate His teaching with "heresy".

See, you do this type of "mild slandering" of Christ and the Bible and of others on this Fourm, .. .yet you never even took 2 mins to find out the actual history of the author, regarding the book you are trying to sell us.

So, "discern that'", i told you. @St. SteVen

I thought revenge was a sin. Doesn't Jesus teach us to love our enemies?

Is Revenge a Sin?

Most readers would answer in the affirmative. Yes, revenge is a sin... for us, but not for God. For us, but not for God? Why? Does God operate at a lower standard than he holds us to? Many would bristle at that question. Why? We are required to love our enemies. Jesus taught this as godly...

www.christianityboard.com

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