Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Is the "free gift" of salvation really free? - Honestly?
To arrive at an Honest conclusion, one must begin with an Honest fact.
Just as God set in the midst of the Garden of Eden … the Tree of Life …
* The GIFT (TREE) was Provided … By God.
* The GIFT was Offered … By God.
* The GIFT was Offered … To Adam
* The OPTION to reach out and FREELY TAKE the Provided and Offered GIFT … Was OF Adam’s OWN FREE WILL TO Reach Out and TAKE it or NOT.
So ALSO God sent into the world … the Word of God …
* The GIFT (WORD) was Provided … By God
* The GIFT was Offered … By God
* The OPTION to reach out and FREELY TAKE the Provided and Offered GIFT … WAS / IS the People of the Whole World’s OWN FREE WILL TO Reach Out and TAKE it or NOT.
A Person (according to his OWN FREEWILL … according to his OWN thoughts, beliefs ) …
… can Decide, Elect, Choose to Reach out AND TAKE Gods Provided and Offered Gift …
OR NOT.
* No Human Terrestrial Earthly Created Person, is the Provider, Payee, Payor, Offerer, Giver, OF THAT EXPRESS Gift.
To arrive at an Honest conclusion, one must begin with an Honest fact.
Just as God set in the midst of the Garden of Eden … the Tree of Life …
* The GIFT (TREE) was Provided … By God.
* The GIFT was Offered … By God.
* The GIFT was Offered … To Adam
* The OPTION to reach out and FREELY TAKE the Provided and Offered GIFT … Was OF Adam’s OWN FREE WILL TO Reach Out and TAKE it or NOT.
So ALSO God sent into the world … the Word of God …
* The GIFT (WORD) was Provided … By God
* The GIFT was Offered … By God
* The OPTION to reach out and FREELY TAKE the Provided and Offered GIFT … WAS / IS the People of the Whole World’s OWN FREE WILL TO Reach Out and TAKE it or NOT.
A Person (according to his OWN FREEWILL … according to his OWN thoughts, beliefs ) …
… can Decide, Elect, Choose to Reach out AND TAKE Gods Provided and Offered Gift …
OR NOT.
* No Human Terrestrial Earthly Created Person, is the Provider, Payee, Payor, Offerer, Giver, OF THAT EXPRESS Gift.
Modern evangelicalism has lost the plot these days. The flesh likes to rely on formulas....whereas we are supposed to be led by the Spirit. Bible says some save by compassion, others save by fear. There are people who need convincing that God is willing to save them based on Christ's righteousness not their own since they already know they are sinful and dont feel they are worth saving. While others need to be convicted of their sinful state and need of a Saviour.
We don't need to overthink things. The natural man can't receive the things of God because the are spiritually discerned.......... not intellectually. The things of God need to be RECEIVED.....not analyzed and figured out. It's a matter of who has ears to hear let him hear.
We need to spiritually discern what Jesus was saying with his parables.....the pearl of great price and other parables......it came to the man without price, but then he hid it in the field and began to sell everything he had to "buy" the field. The parable of the "talents" as well, and lots of other things that Jesus said and taught.
Maybe we could think of it like receiving a free gift of a nice new car from your Dad........after you receive it you need to invest your time and resources to maintaining that car out of love and respect for the gift and the one who gave it to you, otherwise it will fall to rust and ruin and not get you where you need to go.
I have family that have heard the salvation story. The like the idea of the "gift." What they don't like is knowing that the way they are living will not fit into a lifestyle devoted to God and in obedience to all the Jesus commanded.
For them, that "gift" has a price. Despite my telling them that the lifestyle change will be something that happens willingly because of their love for God. They still see it as something they have to pay.
I think that is the difference.
For them, that "gift" has a price. Despite my telling them that the lifestyle change will be something that happens willingly because of their love for God. They still see it as something they have to pay.
I think that is the difference.
Behold
Well-Known Member
You told us you have read some of Calvin's theology.
Probably when you were on the Calvin forum, a while back, as they are happy to let you read all their Calvinism Posts and Threads.
Those deceivers LIVE to ruin a believers faith, with John Calvinism.
So, That's all it takes.
You dont have to study it, you just have to take it into your mind, and then the Devil takes it from there.
Paul teaches this as....."WHO.... has bewitched you".
"Bewitched'... = spellbound you.....like a spell is cast by a demonic practitioner of the Dark Arts and this power deceives you into believing what isn't true is True.
As Paul teaches...>>" that you no longer obey the TRUTH"...
Taken
Well-Known Member
Perhaps, they are confused on the FREE GIFT God Offered…
God FREELY OFFERED….His WORD.
God did not OFFER “Salvation” Free for nothing.
God did not OFFER “Faith” Free for nothing.
God Offered “HIS WORD”… Free for those choosing to TAKE it (hear, read)
Men who CHOOSE to take HIS “WORD” Gift…GOD BLESSES them…WITH Gods Gift of MEASURED “FAITH”…
THAT (Faith) Blessing/Gift…IS for the mans Effort “to Hear, to Read”… (not FREE, it requires mans choice / effort)
Hear / Read A LITTLE…receive a LITTLE Faith. Hear / Read more … Faith increased.
Salvation is another GIFT, which REQUIRES the individuals HEARTFUL BELIEF. (Not Free, ie Requires the mans effort /choice of Belief in his Heart.)
Offering of a WAY for man to become Spiritually “Born Again”….is an Offering from God. (Not free, but requires a different effort of the man, of his own freewill will TO:
Confess his heartful believe, AND vow his own bodily life willingly, given, expressly UNTO the the Lord God….)
That is a mans effort, works, to receive Gods Offering of Salvation of his soul AND quickening (rebirth) of his spirit AND become on Gods “LIST” of all humans God SEALS and SHALL raise up alive forever unto Himself. <—- Gods Inheritance.
God Bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
Repentance, I would say....the church needs to wake up to her flagging spiritual condition and repent of false doctrines and sin in the camp and for "tolerating" it all instead of bringing correction in love. It reminds me of when my daughter was taking horse riding lessons......when she rode the horse as a tentative beginner, the horse looked like an old nag...head down, trudging along reluctantly. When the instructor got on that horse, I could hardly believe it, the horse became a different animal....think it knew it was now under authority....head came up, tail arched, ears perked up, trotting around so perkily and prettily. LOL. Well, today's church looks like that old nag to me....being ridden/led by people who are not leading and taking up their authority....because they are just as lackadaisacal and lacking the Spirit as the people in the pews. Everybody needs to pull up their socks in the fear and Spirit of the Lord.
The bible indicates that saving souls is typically through the foolishness of preaching. Preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified...and those who are appointed to salvation will believe. Relying on the Holy Spirit, not on methods and gimmicks and hype. And don't expect to save the whole world, just those souls who are appointed to salvation.
Yes. Christians aren't sharing the abundant life, because they aren't living it.
This book focuses on Spirit-led evangelism. Granted, it is a method, but leads to a Spirit-directed lifestyle.
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Yes, amen, absolutely need to be living it. True Christianity is not a religion....it's a Way....a new Way of life. And there is no authority backing someone up who tells people to stop sinning if they are sinning themselves....on the contrary they will be looking for ways to justify their sin and start twisting and diluting scriptures.
It's easy to be critical of the church, what are you doing in terms of personal evangelism?
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AW Bowman
Active Member
- A hypothetical: I advertised a free car to everyone who will show up at my house and pick one up. The vehicle is comply free, no strings attached.
- You show up and I give you the keys and title, and send you on your way.
- But did you first "count the costs"?
- There are a few "future" costs involved: (1) Registration, (2) Insurance, (3) Gas and Oil, (4) Maintenance, (5) taxes, (6) and of course, a valid driving license.
- Question: Is the free vehicle actually "free" of obligations?
Added comment: In the three verses in Romans where the term "free gift" is found, the word "free" is not found in the original text.
- You show up and I give you the keys and title, and send you on your way.
- But did you first "count the costs"?
- There are a few "future" costs involved: (1) Registration, (2) Insurance, (3) Gas and Oil, (4) Maintenance, (5) taxes, (6) and of course, a valid driving license.
- Question: Is the free vehicle actually "free" of obligations?
Added comment: In the three verses in Romans where the term "free gift" is found, the word "free" is not found in the original text.
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Yes sir, I have found that "the cost" is not such a burden any more. Looking back, the "cost" has been a blessing.
Problem I have with so many "Christian" books is that they are trying to re-invent the wheel that God has already invented....and in a subtle way it robs Him of His glory. Usually they come with human add-ons, if not outright twists, that go astray of the plumbline of His word. He has already said in His word that signs follow the preaching of the gospel, and a few other things related to that. Good enough for me.....His word is true.This book focuses on Spirit-led evangelism. Granted, it is a method, but leads to a Spirit-directed lifestyle.
Doesn't it say in the bible to let your words be few? Wise words in light of all the books out there that take 300 pages to try saying what the bible says in a few sentences. lol.
Honestly I think if you were to take away everyone's "Christian" library and leave them only a properly translated bible (as opposed to a paraphrased one) they would be better off if that is all they were to read and got to know it well.
Hi @St. SteVen.As per the O/P. The gift of salvation is free. The sanctification process costs everything!
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
My wife and I have been in fellowships where leaders and congregation members alike have been preoccupied with publishing their works.
I agree some Christian authors do try to reinvent the wheel, and it requires some composure to avoid offending them with uncomplimentary reviews when we are personally acquainted with them. I have disposed of books in the garbage rather than pass on the errors and falsehoods in them.
Agree.
My point is that BOTH of those aspects should be clear in the process of evangelism.
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My challenge of taking away a library would include their bibles. What would become of their faith?
Hebrews chapter eleven is know as the Faith Hall of Fame. Who in the chapter had a Bible?
Haven't seen a reply to post #51 either.
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The sample of grace is free. To have the full measure of the product (grace) we need to sell all and buy it as per Jesus. Any other consideration is a false gospel.
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Problem I have with so many "Christian" books is that they are trying to re-invent the wheel that God has already invented....and in a subtle way it robs Him of His glory. Usually they come with human add-ons, if not outright twists, that go astray of the plumbline of His word. He has already said in His word that signs follow the preaching of the gospel, and a few other things related to that. Good enough for me.....His word is true.This book focuses on Spirit-led evangelism. Granted, it is a method, but leads to a Spirit-directed lifestyle.
Doesn't it say in the bible to let your words be few? Wise words in light of all the books out there that take 300 pages to try saying what the bible says in a few sentences. lol.
Honestly I think if you were to take away everyone's "Christian" library and leave them only a properly translated bible (as opposed to a paraphrased one) they would be better off if that is all they were to read and got to know it well.
I think faith itself would stand, at least for a while, but growth would be much more limited. His word is a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path. However, there is also a greater vulnerability to being deceived and led astray without knowledge of the scrips. God gave them to us for good reason. "How does a man keep his way pure...by hiding your word in his heart." (my paraphrase from memory) and "My people perish from lack of knowledge." Most people even come to faith to start with, through the foolishness of the preaching of those scrips.
(But I was making another point with my post......and just to let you know I don't keep up very well with threads any more.....just dropping in and doing my best here and there mostly, as I can.)
I understand about people worshiping the bible so to speak, I've seen it from time to time......some are kind of worshiping a dead letter sort of separately from a living relationship with the Living God......think they are as yet not very spiritual and need to grow (assuming they have been born again). It's like they forget to look UP from the pages of the bible to look upon and hear from the Living God and allow Him to enlighten the scrips to their understanding. Things of God need to be spiritually discerned. It is a matter of growing, which is not always a neat-and-tidy, wrapped-up-with-a-bow kind of affair as anyone who is raising or has raised children know. And some circles unfortunately discourage spirituality in the things of God entirely....cessationists. We must not quench the Spirit.......but do need to test the spirits....and knowing God's word well is a weapon in this regard. We are in a war for souls, and we need all the spiritual weaponry that God gave us.
But we sure do need to be VERY careful that we're not working for the Enemy by disparaging or discouraging the reading of those scriptures or be found casting doubt on their general overall veracity (apart from minor translation problems - and as long as it is a faithful translation.)
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