Is Sunday the "New Covenant Sabbath"?

[Phoneman777]

Hmm…to my eyes, it doesn’t (at least currently in here) look as though anyone is demonizing you for believing Saturday’s are important and holy days. It rather looks as if you are the one doing the demonizing of others based on what they are convinced of…with statements that seem to suggest if they don’t do what you do outwardly then they have climbed down into the pit of sin.

I assure you I demonize no one. When it comes to the Sabbath, I have no way of knowing who is a Caiaphas and who is an Aaron - only God knows.

However, many in the OSAS crowd are vehemently anti-Sabbath-keeping and recklessly accuse us of legalism.

Could we accuse them of being in love with sin as much or even more than with Jesus, and thus require a OSAS License to Sin to accommodate their divided affections? Sure, but we won't - not only because it's against the TOS, but because (most of us) got too much class to do that :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

LOL!! OH HAHA!

 

[Phoneman777]

We have a word for trying to get every jot and tittle right: legalism.

Actually, a "legalist" is not one who tries to get every jot and tittle right ------- it's one who tries to get every jot and tittle right for the purpose of obtaining salvation.

Christians who receive Jesus on bended knee at the foot of the Cross and then go forth to "keep His commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight" (1 John 3:22 KJV) are not Legalists, just "unprofitable servants" (Luke 17:10 KJV) doing our "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1 KJV) of obedience to God's commandments "which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10 KJV).

No one here is doing that, Phoneman. Only accusations of such. As Paul says in Romans 14, though, "(o)ne person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike." His resolution is immediately following, that "(e)ach one should be fully convinced in his own mind... (t)he one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord" ~ and it seems to be the case that everyone here is doing just that. Grace and peace to you.

It's a popular misconception that Colossians 2:16 KJV is talking about the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments - it isn't. It's talking about the yearly "sabbath" Feast Days (Leviticus 23) of the Mosaic Law which were "against" the people and were "shadows" pointing to the future reality of Christ. They were written by the hand of Moses in a book and placed outside the Ark of the Covenant. The Ten Commandments were written by God on stone to show their eternal nature and were placed inside the Ark to show their distinction from the rest, including that written by Moses in Leviticus 23.

The weekly Sabbath was created as a memorial - not a shadow - to the past, specifically to Creation Week when sin had not yet entered the world and there were no spiritual shadows --- all was light. Also, the Ten Commandments were not "against" anyone - they are "for us" and contain promises and blessings for those who would obey them, while the Mosaic Law was filled with penalties for stepping out of line.

Grace to you, my friend. May the Holy Spirit bless us with enlightenment, one and all.

 

[Phoneman777]

That we number the commandments differently from you in no ways means they have been removed..

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Pax et Bonum

My friend, the RCC has done more than renumber them - the 4th has been changed to refer to the 1st day instead of the 7th day. The 2nd is completely gone, and the 10th has been chopped into two to make up the deficit.

The Catholic encyclical Rerum Novarum claims Natural Law is above God's Law and teaches that I may not only steal from another's abundance to satisfy my need, but I may also steal from his abundance to satisfy the need of someone else. Sounds a lot like the commie Democrat idea of "redistribution of wealth", right? You have no idea how closely the two ideologies are tied.

"Fascism is the system that most closely corresponds to the concepts of the Church of Rome." - Cattolica Civilta (the "house organ" paper of the Jesuit Order).
​

So, again, how can the Catholic church trace its roots all the way back to Jesus when the "remnant" end time church of Christ is characterized as that which will "keep the commandments of God", which I've shown the RCC doesn't do? I don't know how I can make it any more plain that this, and I pray you will ponder this, my friend :)

 

[Phoneman777]

of course the sabbath isn't sunday.

that's as ridiculous as saying the new covenant is the 10 commandments.

see Deuteronomy 4:13 -- God specifies explicitly that the 10 commandments are the old covenant.

The verse doesn't say the (Old) Covenant "is" the Ten Commandments - it's saying the Ten Commandments are what they were to "PERFORM, even Ten Commandments".

A Covenant consists of mutual promises of two parties. God promised to bless Israel if Israel promised to "perform" His Ten Commandments.

If the law and Old Covenant are the same, go to Romans 3:31 KJV and replace "law" with "Old Covenant":

"Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant). ​

Post, do Christians establish the Old Covenant? Then, please stop claiming the "Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant".

 

[Brakelite]

Hmm…to my eyes, it doesn’t (at least currently in here) look as though anyone is demonizing you for believing Saturday’s are important and holy days. It rather looks as if you are the one doing the demonizing of others based on what they are convinced of…with statements that seem to suggest if they don’t do what you do outwardly then they have climbed down into the pit of sin.

Observing the Sabbath 'outwardly' is a direct result of first having faith in God and accepting truth inwardly. Just as in obedience to any other commandment, one must first accept, by faith, a desire... Hunger and thirst... For righteousness, and the power to do so. The Sabbath isn't solely an outward observance. It's a heart response to Jesus' authority in your life.
Anyone just 'outwardly observing' the Sabbath without any inward spiritual witness and relationship with Jesus or prompting and direction from Him, would be no better off than picking their nose.

 

[BarneyFife]

Hmm…to my eyes, it doesn’t (at least currently in here) look as though anyone is demonizing you for believing Saturday’s are important and holy days.

.
.
Actually, the particular post you're quoting states that the Sabbath itself is being demonized—not the poster himself.

For the record, both the Sabbath and Sabbath advocates are maligned quite regularly here, and lately it's been trending increasingly in antagonistic threads started by objectors—not advocates. Just sayin'. :)
.
.

 

[Wrangler]

I'd say that it's pretty unlikely that "the Government" will ever even give a hairy rat's posterior for which day a numerically insignificant religious group worships on.

Tyranny of numbers.

Is this how matters of right and wrong are decided now, pure numbers?

There is already a Supreme Court decision on the matter. It did not involve SDA but Jews. The court ruled they can take Saturday as a holiday if they wish or any other day of the week. However, they must also not buy or sell on Sunday. If this economically disadvantages those of that faith, so be it was the courts decision.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

.
.
Actually, the particular post you're quoting states that the Sabbath itself is being demonized—not the poster himself.

For the record, both the Sabbath and Sabbath advocates are maligned quite regularly here, and lately it's been trending increasingly in antagonistic threads started by objectors—not advocates. Just sayin'. :)
.
.

This thread was not started by an objector. Just sayin.’
As for being maligned because you think one day holier than others, you know I do not like that and I speak against it when I find myself in one of these threads just as vociferously as I speak against anyone being maligned for thinking all days alike are holy and so not honoring any day as more important but resting in ever increasing trust and dependence on Him without cease.

I’ve just been reminded that I have a page open on a device somewhere which Btakelite gave me some time ago that I really wanted to read some things on. There’s never enough days in a month!

Hope you’re doing well bro! I never get to run across you unless I go and find the most current sabbath thread!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Tyranny of numbers.

Is this how matters of right and wrong are decided now, pure numbers?

There is already a Supreme Court decision on the matter. It did not involve SDA but Jews. The court ruled they can take Saturday as a holiday if they wish or any other day of the week. However, they must also not buy or sell on Sunday. If this economically disadvantages those of that faith, so be it was the courts decision.

oh…! I’m finding that hard to believe, though nothing seems to surprise me any more.
Do you have a handy link to the ruling or do I have to go digging?

 

[BarneyFife]

Observing the Sabbath 'outwardly' is a direct result of first having faith in God and accepting truth inwardly. Just as in obedience to any other commandment, one must first accept, by faith, a desire... Hunger and thirst... For righteousness, and the power to do so. The Sabbath isn't solely an outward observance. It's a heart response to Jesus' authority in your life.
Anyone just 'outwardly observing' the Sabbath without any inward spiritual witness and relationship with Jesus or prompting and direction from Him, would be no better off than picking their nose.

.
.
I'm not much for cheerleading, because I like to avoid the "us-and-them" dynamic, but this is exceptionally insightful, my friend.

I confess that I've had my share of Sabbaths that would have been better kept if I'd slept through them entirely.

If the Gospel is not lodged firmly in the heart, proper rest cannot be attained under any circumstances.

...and they have no rest, day nor night...

On the other hand, when the heart is contrite and keenly aware of the sufferings of Christ that have delivered us, repose can course throughout the soul, again, under any circumstances.

I strongly suspect that many more of the former type of Sabbath has been observed than of the latter, even, or perhaps especially, in the Adventist church.

I know for a fact that the spirit of the Sabbath has pervaded many a Sunday (however erroneously kept in time) from the experience I had in the Southern Baptist communion of my youth.

Thank God!! He winks at our ignorance thus far.

There is, after all, only one reason to proclaim the acceptable season of Sabbath observance:

A plain "Thus saith the LORD."

...by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

I remember hearing Elder C.D. Brooks say one time that, while he was at a workers' meeting, one of the brethren stood up and started talking about the difficulty of convincing folks that eating unclean meat was injurious and contrary to the will of God because of some trending advertisement that was claiming pork to be "the other white meat." Brooks answered back, with some enthusiasm, "Just tell 'em God said 'Don't do it.'"

One of the best Gospel sermons I've ever heard:
.
.

m

 

[BarneyFife]

This thread was not started by an objector. Just sayin.’

.
.
I never said it was... Just sayin'

Good to see you, too, Sis. m

I know that the discussions about the 4th commandment get ugly on both sides (myself included, ashamedly ) and I know that you will not condone it by your participation nor by your silence when you feel compelled to reprove.

And I thank you for that.

And I'm fixin' to take another crack at a Gospel thread.

Who knows ¿ ¿ ¿ Maybe it'll garner some interest, eventually.
.
.

 

[BarneyFife]

I assure you I demonize no one. When it comes to the Sabbath, I have no way of knowing who is a Caiaphas and who is an Aaron - only God knows.

However, many in the OSAS crowd are vehemently anti-Sabbath-keeping and recklessly accuse us of legalism.

Could we accuse them of being in love with sin as much or even more than with Jesus, and thus require a OSAS License to Sin to accommodate their divided affections? Sure, but we won't - not only because it's against the TOS, but because (most of us) got too much class to do that :)

.
.
There are varying degrees of demonization (a word that's been worn out and dreadfully abused).

And, the Truth (even as it nearly is in Jesus) can be urged upon others in the spirit which emanates from Medieval Rome.
.
.

 

[post]

The verse doesn't say the (Old) Covenant "is" the Ten Commandments - it's saying the Ten Commandments are what they were to "PERFORM, even Ten Commandments".

A Covenant consists of mutual promises of two parties. God promised to bless Israel if Israel promised to "perform" His Ten Commandments.

If the law and Old Covenant are the same, go to Romans 3:31 KJV and replace "law" with "Old Covenant":

"Do we then make void the (Old Covenant) through faith? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant). ​

Post, do Christians establish the Old Covenant? Then, please stop claiming the "Ten Commandments are the Old Covenant".

The scripture literally says His old covenant with Israel was to perform the 10 commandments.

 

[post]

Covenant consists of mutual promises of two parties.

Nope. False definition.

See the Noadic covenant.
See the Abrahamic covenant.
See the Davidic covenant.

 

[BarneyFife]

The scripture literally says His old covenant with Israel was to perform the 10 commandments.

.
.
It was also never meant to save anyone.

O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever! ​

.
.

 

[Philip James]

The Catholic encyclical Rerum Novarum claims Natural Law is above God's Law and teaches that I may not only steal from another's abundance to satisfy my need, but I may also steal from his abundance to satisfy the need of someone else.

I have just read that document Rerum Novarum (May 15, 1891) | LEO XIII

Nowhere do i find what you have claimed here.

I have been unable to find the sourc3 document foe your 'quotes' about decretals.. Do you have a link?

Your misrepresenatation of Rerum Novarum does not encourage me to accept other 'quotes' from you without having access to source documents..

As for the ten commandments, i gave you the link to the Cathechism that exposes the lie about the Church removing the Commandments..

Really brother, so far it looks like your objections to the Catholic Church and the 'remnant' that remain True within her, are just smoke and mirrors..

Stop following the traditions of men, and return to the Feast!

If Rome is your stumbling block, then come to the Feast with Alexandria! Come with Constantinople! But come!

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let the hearer say, "Come." Let the one who thirsts come forward, and the one who wants it receive the gift of life-giving water.

Pax et Bonum

 

[Phoneman777]

.
.
There are varying degrees of demonization (a word that's been worn out and dreadfully abused).

And, the Truth (even as it nearly is in Jesus) can be urged upon others in the spirit which emanates from Medieval Rome.
.
.

When Jesus accused the Jews of being children of the devil, should we consider that to be a degree of demonization?

 

[Phoneman777]

The scripture literally says His old covenant with Israel was to perform the 10 commandments.

"Do we make void the (Old Covenant) through grace? God forbid. Yea, we establish the (Old Covenant)". - Romans 3:31 (according to your understanding)

 

[Phoneman777]

Nope. False definition.

See the Noadic covenant.
See the Abrahamic covenant.
See the Davidic covenant.

All these were obligated to uphold their end of the bargain: obedience