Is it time for Christians to become more accepting towards muslims in politics?

[EndTimeWine]

It is time for all Christians to stand up against liars= wolves in sheep's clothing. Christian costumes do not make for Christians.

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually the ignorance is on your side of the fence. Your claim about the Quran is false. If it wasn't, you would be throwing it in my face.

you know, you could stop this endless yo-yo from judge to victim, it is theoretically possible lol
try answering a Q for a change, instead of deflecting them all away maybe

 

[bbyrd009]

It is time for all Christians to stand up against liars= wolves in sheep's clothing. Christian costumes do not make for Christians.

couldn't have said it better myself, lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

see that when you have to turn on the news in order to develop any complaints against Muslims, that you are made into a liar, and no deflection in the world will change this. What will change is that this conflict is in fact about to be made very real for you, thanks to the actions of your leaders, by your own permission.

but i guess the time to complain about this was before you sold all those arms into all of those conflicts,
that caused all of those Muslims to become homeless, huh.
But hey, your stock went up though, right
now, go and wrestle with whether you should accept Muslims into your politics, lol
best of luck to you there

 

[Dcopymope]

Is it time for Christians to become more accepting towards muslims in politics?

I'll become more accepting towards Muslims in politics the day they become more accepting and tolerant of my faith in Jesus Christ, where I can preach the gospel in the middle east or anywhere else for that matter and make it back in one piece, without the possibility of getting my head chopped off, or without hostilities. Are you seriously expecting that to ever happen? Why do people always put these one sided, outrageously unrealistic expectations on Christians and never anyone else? Is this a result of that dreaded "unconditional love" crap? It has to be.

 

[bbyrd009]

where I can preach the gospel in the middle east or anywhere else for that matter and make it back in one piece, without the possibility of getting my head chopped off, or without hostilities.

seems rather unrealistic, in light of your assumed reaction to JWs knocking on your door... :)
you want Muslims proselytizing your kids, with the same protections?
cuz guess what, that is what you are going to get, when you say you want the other thing, ok

 

[Dcopymope]

seems rather unrealistic, in light of your assumed reaction to JWs knocking on your door... :)
you want Muslims proselytizing your kids, with the same protections?
cuz guess what, that is what you are going to get, when you say you want the other thing, ok

Why are you so concerned if they do or not? Have you forgotten who wins in the end of all this mess? Does Satan win or does God win?

 

[bbyrd009]

Why are you so concerned if they do or not?

ha well they obviously already have this protection anyway,
so it only remains to be discovered why they do not avail themselves of this;
i thought they were intent on taking over the world? lol

Have you forgotten who wins in the end of all this mess? Does Satan win or does God win?

an excellent point, and hopefully i can at least soften the blow. i know what i'm saying has not been pleasant to contemplate for many ppl here ok. And i have lived around Muslims half of my life, i get along with them just fine already. But no way would i want them in my government, that is strictly an invitation to intrigue imo. at best. Boundary stones are being removed here, right under your noses. Heck, (you) are helping move them even.

how is it that the ppl who are islamophobic are surely the same ones who are patriotic, and worship their government, which is moving boundary stones? lol

 

[bbyrd009]

i mean, either get along with Muslims or don't, but at least pick one!
the fruit of the alt should be pretty apparent by now, i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I'll become more accepting towards Muslims in politics

i won't, but not because i don't accept Muslims, see, but because i pretty much ignore politics

you trust in the Rule of Law? Fine, let's see how that works out for you then :)

 

[EndTimeWine]

Is the problem, Christians not get along with Muslims or Muslims not getting along with anyone? I love this yin and yang mentality. Both can not coexist, not because we are violent but because Islam is. Righteousness has nothing in common with filth. If one can live with filth let him be filthy. Islam will never leave the good alone. And the good will never accept a false god. We can not accept Islam, but not to the end of violence this is the Lord's teaching , but they do to us and all others to the end of violence taught by their false prophet. The scales do not weigh in their favor. The father of Islam is violent to the nonbeliever.

 

[bbyrd009]

I know you believe this is supposed to upset me...it doesn't.

the point is that all you do there is slam a door, not that i think you are any more saved or lost than i am

 

[bbyrd009]

Is the problem, Christians not get along with Muslims or Muslims not getting along with anyone? I love this yin and yang mentality. Both can not coexist, not because we are violent but because Islam is. Righteousness has nothing in common with filth. If one can live with filth let him be filthy. Islam will never leave the good alone. And the good will never accept a false god. We can not accept Islam, but not to the end of violence this is the Lord's teaching , but they do to us and all others to the end of violence taught by their false prophet. The scales do not weigh in their favor. The father of Islam is violent to the nonbeliever.

fine, then witness the atrocities personally committed upon you, or recognize and post a link :)
and you better believe that the witness against you is not non existent ok

 

[Helen]

You can include it in the post where you witness all of the fruit of Muslim atrocities committed against you, i guess.
Remember, the way Scripture said to judge?

Nothing has to be "done to us personally" as proof of why we do not embrace or welcome Muslims.
We are ONE body...they hate all Christians ...they are told to kill Jews and Christians . One Imam was even on the steps of parliament months ago yelling it out!! ( but our Prim Minister loves them...builds them Mosques ...and throws in prison for hate speech any who dare oppose them.
But, no, what they yell about Christians and Jews is somehow "not" hate speech!!!!

We are ONE body...what they are doing to the Body of Christ, me "personally" or not, is done unto me as much as it is done unto Christ.
! Cor 12 14 "For the Body is not one member, but many.
If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?"
What is done to any Christian is done ''to me."

 

[Job]

Nothing has to be "done to us personally" as proof of why we do not embrace or welcome Muslims.
We are ONE body...what they are doing to the Body of Christ, me "personally" or not, is done unto me as much as it is done unto Christ.
What is done to any Christian is done ''to me."

He doesn't understand what that means.

 

[EndTimeWine]

fine, then witness the atrocities personally committed upon you, or recognize and post a link :)
and you better believe that the witness against you is not non existent ok

Roman12:15-16
And within these verses it says mourn with those who mourn. These are MY BRETHREN what is done to them is done to me. I will not be complacent or idle. Perhaps since you cannot appreciate being moved to compassion for them, atrocity alludes you. How some live in a bubble, where they condemn and JUDGE those who would DARE CARE and speak out against the obvious. You put band-aids on cancer and then tell everyone its all better. Islam is not the problem according to you but those who reject it. St Thomas Aquinas said:"It is of no great feet to convert by the strength of your arms."

What Did the Saints Say about Islam?
Andrew Bieszad April 30, 2015 278 Comments
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St. Juan de Ribera, Viceroy and Bishop of Valencia (1568-1611), Supervising the Expulsion of Moriscos; Francisco Domingo Marques, 1912

For Islamic scholars, there is a statement in the apostolic exhortation of Pope Francis, Evangelii Gaudium, which is particularly troubling:

Faced with disconcerting episodes of violent fundamentalism, our respect for true followers of Islam should lead us to avoid hateful generalisations, for authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Koran are opposed to every form of violence. (p. 253)

As the situation in the Middle East escalates, and the violence of the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) spills rivers of innocent Christian blood, this statement seems incongruous with reality.

Popes are certainly free to have personal opinions. A Pope’s opinions, however, when shared with the public, carry more weight because of the authority of his office than would the opinions of another, lesser prelate. His words — particularly when expressed not through an interview or sermon, but an official document — signal, at least implictly, that his opinion is in fact the belief of the Church. This has a real impact on the understanding of whatever issue is being touched upon, for both Catholics and non-Catholics alike. Particularly in a modern context, where global news is instantaneously available, papal opinions spread far, and fast. Once an idea is out in the wild as something “the pope said”, it becomes difficult to ever take back. There is even a not entirely uncommon misconception that papal opinion, when it touches on any subject related to faith, rises to the level of infallibility.

It seems that there has never been so much division within the Church over basic doctrine. Catholics today argue over long-established teachings which, as recently as fifty years ago, were accepted without dissent. This division appears to permeate the Church, and can be seen not only amongst the laity, but also within the ranks of Catholicism’s highest prelates. This division relates not only to our own internal understanding of teaching about articles of faith and sacramental beliefs, but the way in which the Catholic Church should deal with other religions. It is particularly worrying that this comes at a time when Islam is rising in power, having recently exterminated the Catholic Faith from Iraq, with ever greater numbers of Muslims answering Islam’s call to jihad against Christians.

As I have taken note of the most recent round Catholic infighting over how to view the Muslim faith, I found myself revisiting a question I began pondering during my graduate studies of this growing religion: What do the saints have to say about Islam?



The following is a brief list of quotes from Catholic saints about Islam and its founder, Muhammad. This list is by no means exhaustive, but it is illustrative of how Catholics — particularly those favored sons and daughters of the Church we now know to be in heaven — viewed the Muslim faith in prior generations:

“Whoever does not embrace the Catholic Christian faith is lost, like your false prophet Muhammad.”

-St. Peter Mavimenus (d. 8th century), martyr from Gaza. Response reported in the Martyriologum Romanum when he was asked to convert to Islam by a group of Muslims.



“There is also the superstition of the Ishmaelites which to this day prevails and keeps people in error, being a forerunner of the Antichrist…. From that time to the present a false prophet named Mohammed has appeared in their midst. This man, after having chanced upon the Old and New Testaments and likewise, it seems, having conversed with an Arian monk, devised his own heresy. Then, having insinuated himself into the good graces of the people by a show of seeming piety, he gave out that a certain book had been sent down to him from heaven. He had set down some ridiculous compositions in this book of his and he gave it to them as an object of veneration.”

-St. John Damascene (d. 749), Syrian Arab Catholic monk and scholar. Quoted from his book On Heresies under the section On the Heresy of the Ishmaelites (in The Fathers of the Church. Vol. 37. Translated by the Catholic University of America. CUA Press. 1958. Pages 153-160.)



“We profess Christ to be truly God and your prophet to be a precursor of the Antichrist and other profane doctrine.”

-Sts. Habenitus, Jeremiah, Peter, Sabinian, Walabonsus, and Wistremundus (d. 851), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.



“Any cult which denies the divinity of Christ, does not profess the existence of the Holy Trinity, refutes baptism, defames Christians, and derogates the priesthood, we consider to be damned.”

-Sts. Aurelius, Felix, George, Liliosa, and Natalia (d. 852), martyrs of Cordoba, Spain. Reported in the Memoriale Sanctorum in response to Spanish Umayyad Caliph ‘Abd Ar-Rahman II’s ministers that they convert to Islam on pain of death.



“On the other hand, those who founded sects committed to erroneous doctrines proceeded in a way that is opposite to this, the point is clear in the case of Muhammad. He seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants.”

-St. Thomas Aquinas (d. 1274), Theologian and Doctor of the Church. Quoted from his De Rationibus Fidei Contra Saracenos, Graecos, et Armenos and translated from Fr. Damian Fehlner’s Aquinas on Reasons for the Faith: Against the Muslims, Greeks, and Armenians (Franciscans of the Immaculate. 2002.).

 

[EndTimeWine]

This not the full article but Catholic CHRISTIANS need to take note. They need to reject the lies of their denomination as I have said and then you will stand solely on the Word. Note: Catholic (CHRISTIAN) operative phrase. As I have said in other post even the Saints of this denomination condemn the heretical teachings of Pope Francis and others. I am called ANTI-CATHOLIC for these claims. REALLY?

 

[Josho]

Is this the twilight zone? Strange post of Josho(Encounter Team)?

Ah well looks like you only have me to talk behind my back with.

Yes i do agree with you that Islam is false religion, but read OzSpen's reply, that pretty much explains it and if you read on my 2nd reply, I state my position on interfaith stuff, it has messed up the hospital chaplaincies, and those national church services with government members and stuff, I don't know the proper word for those kind of services, but they like to mix in Islam, Buddism, Christianity, a priest, an imam, a monk, a guru, those kinda services when they have some important service on with the prime minister, governor general, politicians, and they may have an Elton John there and a Paul McCarthy sitting in another corner, with all the guys with high up titles. And it's wrong, how can the Holy Spirit flow in such a mixed up service like that you know, God doesn't honor a mixture of religion underneath a building titled "Church" or a room titled "hospital chapel."

At the end of the day though all i can say to you is we are in New Testament times, underneath the covenant of grace, because Jesus gave his own life for mankind, so they may have eternal life in heaven, Jesus's blood was shed to cleanse our sins and wash us clean, and with that there is much more great things that can be done by Jesus's name.

But why keep it to yourself? Just because non-believers don't have Jesus, it doesn't mean we have to push them aside and box them up, because Jesus wants them to become believers too, he wants people to come to heaven with him, it's his desire, that people turn to him and love him, so it's so very important that non-believers are prayed for and that in some way the love of God, the grace of God touches them as well, that they may believe and accept Jesus as there Lord & Savior as well, it's so sad to see how many people we see without Jesus out there today. And you don't have to bring it up, because i will, but just because some baby was splashed with water on their head, it doesn't mean they are born again, as they are no old enough to make a decision yet, (but yes I believe if a baby dies they will go to heaven, because they are innocent,) but I believe when they become old enough, and that may be a different age for different people, I don't think I was able to talk until I was 3 years old, and when i was at 4 or 5 or somewhere around there, when i was able to develop a basic understanding I asked Jesus into my heart, that's the way I was brought up, it's important that people make that decision to believe in Jesus and open the door of their heart. And it's important also that others do the same, because Jesus cares for others as well too you know, he doesn't want muslims to die muslims, he wants them to renounce islam, and become a new born in the Spirit and come to Jesus, that they too may have eternal life. And that's what i see today, we are meant to be displaying to them the Jesus in us, not being Mr. Judge and telling them to go burn in hell, no that's not the way Jesus taught us how to treat one and another, if some angel from Jesus came to visit Osama Bin Laden and he renounced islam, repented and turned to Jesus and gave himself into the international police for what he had done, he too could have been saved, his soul could have been saved, and he may not have had the most rewards in heaven, but he would have had a spot in heaven. So Jesus is graceful, but we shouldn't go twisting scripture and telling lies about what is right and wrong in the sight of the Lord, whatever is right and wrong that is written in the Book, the Bible, they are there for the good of us, the good of others, they are the ways of the Lord and they aren't the ways of the world, and if you follow it, it honors God and you will be rewarded in heaven for it, same goes for other beleivers, but the Holy Spirit is there to help us to follow it, we aren't meant to be self-righteous, we are made righteous through Christ and the grace of God, it's easy to become self-reliant on our own selves, but we are meant to rely on God, because it's by his strength & power he makes things possible.

But I would encourage you EndTimeWine, you are probably pretty knowledgeable in the word, but don't put the non-believers in the box, don't put up the stay away sign, or give God the "I will just pray for myself" attitude, because these non-believers really matter to God, that they too turn to Jesus as well, because he cares for them, and these kind of people need Jesus.

And another word of advice, before you talk behind someone's back, you might want to look up what the Bible says about it.

Otherwise Welcome to this forum and I pray that you continue to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit and be shown greater signs, wonders and miracles where ever you may go, and that you will grow deeper into the relationship with Jesus and produce much more good fruit, and that he will show you his love, his grace, his joy. In Jesus name Amen. ;)

 

[EndTimeWine]

Ah well looks like you only have me to talk behind my back with.

Yes i do agree with you that Islam is false religion, but read OzSpen's reply, that pretty much explains it and if you read on my 2nd reply, I state my position on interfaith stuff, it has messed up the hospital chaplaincies, and those national church services with government members and stuff, I don't know the proper word for those kind of services, but they like to mix in Islam, Buddism, Christianity, a priest, an imam, a monk, a guru, those kinda services when they have some important service on with the prime minister, governor general, politicians, and they may have an Elton John there and a Paul McCarthy sitting in another corner, with all the guys with high up titles. And it's wrong, how can the Holy Spirit flow in such a mixed up service like that you know, God doesn't honor a mixture of religion underneath a building titled "Church" or a room titled "hospital chapel."

At the end of the day though all i can say to you is we are in New Testament times, underneath the covenant of grace, because Jesus gave his own life for mankind, so they may have eternal life in heaven, Jesus's blood was shed to cleanse our sins and wash us clean, and with that there is much more great things that can be done by Jesus's name.

But why keep it to yourself? Just because non-believers don't have Jesus, it doesn't mean we have to push them aside and box them up, because Jesus wants them to become believers too, he wants people to come to heaven with him, it's his desire, that people turn to him and love him, so it's so very important that non-believers are prayed for and that in some way the love of God, the grace of God touches them as well, that they may believe and accept Jesus as there Lord & Savior as well, it's so sad to see how many people we see without Jesus out there today. And you don't have to bring it up, because i will, but just because some baby was splashed with water on their head, it doesn't mean they are born again, as they are no old enough to make a decision yet, (but yes I believe if a baby dies they will go to heaven, because they are innocent,) but I believe when they become old enough, and that may be a different age for different people, I don't think I was able to talk until I was 3 years old, and when i was at 4 or 5 or somewhere around there, when i was able to develop a basic understanding I asked Jesus into my heart, that's the way I was brought up, it's important that people make that decision to believe in Jesus and open the door of their heart. And it's important also that others do the same, because Jesus cares for others as well too you know, he doesn't want muslims to die muslims, he wants them to renounce islam, and become a new born in the Spirit and come to Jesus, that they too may have eternal life. And that's what i see today, we are meant to be displaying to them the Jesus in us, not being Mr. Judge and telling them to go burn in hell, no that's not the way Jesus taught us how to treat one and another, if some angel from Jesus came to visit Osama Bin Laden and he renounced islam, repented and turned to Jesus and gave himself into the international police for what he had done, he too could have been saved, his soul could have been saved, and he may not have had the most rewards in heaven, but he would have had a spot in heaven. So Jesus is graceful, but we shouldn't go twisting scripture and telling lies about what is right and wrong in the sight of the Lord, whatever is right and wrong that is written in the Book, the Bible, they are there for the good of us, the good of others, they are the ways of the Lord and they aren't the ways of the world, and if you follow it, it honors God and you will be rewarded in heaven for it, same goes for other beleivers, but the Holy Spirit is there to help us to follow it, we aren't meant to be self-righteous, we are made righteous through Christ and the grace of God, it's easy to become self-reliant on our own selves, but we are meant to rely on God, because it's by his strength & power he makes things possible.

But I would encourage you EndTimeWine, you are probably pretty knowledgeable in the word, but don't put the non-believers in the box, don't put up the stay away sign, or give God the "I will just pray for myself" attitude, because these non-believers really matter to God, that they too turn to Jesus as well, because he cares for them, and these kind of people need Jesus.

And another word of advice, before you talk behind someone's back, you might want to look up what the Bible says about it.

Otherwise Welcome to this forum and I pray that you continue to follow the lead of the Holy Spirit and be shown greater signs, wonders and miracles where ever you may go, and that you will grow deeper into the relationship with Jesus and produce much more good fruit, and that he will show you his love, his grace, his joy. In Jesus name Amen. ;)

No talking behind your back on my part. This is a pretty much in your face forum, no secrets here. All that is said is in the light. And I am sure anyone here will tell you I say exactly what is on my mind to say. I show no partiality toward persons. And if you have read my post, I do believe in bringing the nonbeliever to Christ. And in this and many other forums- I do. Outside of forums I do as well. I did read your other post, but this was a reply to the first, which sounded ambiguous at best. It did not sound Christian and is what you posted to lead the discussion. Do not blame me for the take any true Christian would have on it. I did read your other reply and it did stay on point. I did not want to overlook your initial post though. Consistency is the key in leading to Christ, the inconsistency was not on my part. God is not the author of confusion. Perhaps this is one of those tune the piano moments, the discussion starts off-off key then Christ interjects and finely tunes everything till it sounds like Him. Again, I did not lead the discussion but only responded to it. And no behind your back ....our post are in each others faces. Now, I will like- your other post concerning this discussion because I now know how you really feel . God Bless!

 

[EndTimeWine]

Well I am not a pharisee, I actually care for non-believers that they may one day find Jesus and find the truth and his ways and not the world's ways, so I pray for them and it's better than nothing at all, and no matter what you tell me, I know I personally have a relationship with the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ, the greatest of all, but in the end I am only one human, I don't go supporting corrupt laws, because it's good for other people to know the truth, instead of being blinded by lies, and it's good for non-believers to see the goodness that comes out of truth, that they too may come to know Jesus as their Lord & Savior, healer & deliverer, resurrector & miracle worker, the conqueror & victor, and that is the Kingdom of God, and all those things still can be done, can be shared, can be prayed, all through the mighty name of Jesus today & the Gospel is for the sake that we may believe, and develop that strong foundation of faith and more importantly so for the sake of others that they may believe and they too may even develop a stronger foundation of faith, and to develop that further more into operating in spiritual gifts and developing that close great friendship that Jesus wants everyone to have, and we don't go telling lies to cover up biblical truths, that's not how we are meant to display the Jesus in us.

Just because one of your secular friends tells you that you should twist God's word a bit so you can win some worldly approval from the world, it doesn't mean you should. I have mentioned this on another thread, but John 13:42-43, take a read of it.

42 Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not openly acknowledge their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue;
43 for they loved human praise more than praise from God.

Does it matter if we are distanced from the world, does it matter if we get disliked by famous people and the world? No it doesn't matter

Praise from God is far better than trying to win all the worldly praise from some human beings which can be sometimes wrong and damaging towards us & other people, just because that's what the majority of a nation or the world wants, doesn't mean it's right, it doesn't mean we should bow down to it, support it or follow it, instead we should see what God says about it, because God is truth, Jesus is truth, the Holy Spirit is truth. Amen.

:)

Agree with this stance. Sounds much better than the lead topic. God Bless!