Is it okay to eat pork?

[BarneyFife]

The church is not under the sabbath law . we are not required ot keep Saturday as the Sabbath, we have entered in to full Sabbath rest.

The church is not "under" any law, because Christ is the end of the law as a means of justification and righteousness.

Romans 10:4 KJV: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

But keeping God's commandments is what matters, in contrast to ceremonial concerns like circumcision.

1 Corinthians 7:19 NKJV: Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

biblehub.com

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[BarneyFife]

I just wanted to say that I ate some side pork the other day. My Dad lives on it and is late 70's now and going strong. Long live the pork eaters.

So, what exactly made you want to say that, Dev?

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[Raccoon1010]

So, what exactly made you want to say that, Dev?

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It's boredom really

 

[BarneyFife]

It's boredom really

Oh

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[Raccoon1010]

Oh

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My Dad cooked us up some side pork the other day. The amount of grease that was left in the pan was a ton. Reminded me of my all beef hot dogs. Just loaded with fat. But both him and I cook out the fat so meat is left to eat. I wouldn't try to eat all that fat though.

My cholesterol has been pretty good so I'm OK. But I will tell you a story: I used to eat these Costco sausage hot dogs. And I started getting chest pain. Once I cut out the sausage hot dogs the chest pain went away. Natures pain indicator that the engine needs maintenance.

 

[BarneyFife]

My Dad cooked us up some side pork the other day. The amount of grease that was left in the pan was a ton. Reminded me of my all beef hot dogs. Just loaded with fat. But both him and I cook out the fat so meat is left to eat. I wouldn't try to eat all that fat though.

My cholesterol has been pretty good so I'm OK. But I will tell you a story: I used to eat these Costco sausage hot dogs. And I started getting chest pain. Once I cut out the sausage hot dogs the chest pain went away. Natures pain indicator that the engine needs maintenance.

I worry about you, Dev.

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[Raccoon1010]

I worry about you, Dev.

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I'm on a much healthier diet now, I'm OK, thanks though!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The introduction to this passage finds Paul declaring to the Corinthian brethren: "You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: forasmuch as you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.” 2 Cor. 3:2, 3.

Here is the key to interpret the words that follow. His figure of speech is patently borrowed from the Scriptural contrast between the old and the new covenant, "Tables of stone" contrasted with “tables of the heart”, “ink" contrasted with "the Spirit of the living God.” These Corinthians, he said, were "ministered by us.”

By an easy transition Paul moves into a discussion of the two covenants by adding immediately that Christ "also hath made us able ministers of the new testament [covenant]; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.” (The word ‘testament’ in this and almost all other instances in the New Testament does not have the meaning of a “will as made by a testator in anticipation of death, but of covenant, and is so translated in the RSV.)

We might close the discussion right here, for our examination of the two covenants revealed clearly that the ratifying of the new covenant did not mean the abolishing of the, Ten Commandments. However, let us proceed.

“But if the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: how shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excels. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remains is glorious. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vale over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished.” Verses 7-13.

Here is a series of contrasts, intended not so much to belittle the old dispensation as to glorify the new. It was ever Paul's studied endeavor to prove that Christ and His ministry are the blazing glory beside which the spiritual glory of the former times seems pale. This argument by contrast particularly marks the book of Hebrews, which was written for the Jewish believers, who, until they accepted Christ, had thought that the glory of Sinai and the ministration of the divine law under the Jewish priests and rulers were the last word in heavenly glory.

The contrasts that Paul seeks to make are essentially the same as the contrasts between the old and new covenants:

1. "The ministration of “death" versus ”the ministration of the spirit."​

2. "Ministration of condemnation" versus "ministration of righteousness."​

3. "Letter killes" versus -spirit gives life.”​

4. “Was glorious- versus -exceed in glory.”​

5. "Done away" versus "remains."​

Numbers one and two are simply variant expressions.

The questions before us are therefore:

1. What are these two ministrations?​

2. What is meant by letter and spirit?​

3. What is this relative "glory"?​

4. What was "done away” and what "remains "?​

The Sabbath objector quickly answers: The "ministration of death" was that which was "written and engraved in stones," and is plainly the Ten Commandments. But not so quickly. Is it correct to speak of a "ministration" and a "law" as synonymous? No. It is correct to speak of the "ministration" or, as we would say, the administering of a law. The administering of the law is the means by which it is put in operation, and is not to be confused with the law itself. Therefore, "the ministration of death," or "the ministration of condemnation," refers to the ministration, or the administering, of the law that was "written and engraved in stones.”

By a simple figure of speech, the law is called death and condemnation. On a certain occasion in Elisha's day, the sons of the prophets gathered with him around a "great pot" in which had been cooked certain "wild gourds." Evidently the gourds were poisonous, for one of those eating cried out: "There is death in the pot." (See 2 Kings 1:38-40) He meant, of course, that there was something in the pot that would cause death, and substituting cause for effect, he cried out as he died.

To be continued...

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Lot of words but He also clearly shows that the law was a pedagogue to lead us to Christ and that the Law was never able to save- but to condemn. Galatians.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Continued from:


Paul had earlier said to the Corinthians, "The sting of death is sin: and the strength of sin is the law." 1 Cor. 15:56. That is, if it were not for the law of God, which condemns those who violate it, there would be no sin, and hence no death in penalty for sin, "for where no law is, there is no transgression.- Rom. 4:15. Thinking on this fact and the contrasting fact that ”the law is holy . . . and just, and good," caused Paul to inquire: ”Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid!" Rom. 7:12,13 Here he speaks of the law as "death." Now, how does Paul say that we escape from this "ministration of death”,- this "ministration of condemnation"? By abolishing the law of God? Listen to his words: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom. 8: 1-4.

We escape from "condemnation" through Jesus Christ, who changes our hearts so that "the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Paul describes this changed state as walking "after the Spirit," and adds that "to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Verses 5, 6.

Here is a state of "condemnation" and "death" changed to one of "no condemnation" but rather "life." In other words, a ministration of condemnation and death exchanged for a ministration of the spirit and life. How evident that we are here discussing the two covenants. And how evident also that Paul's words in Romans 8 parallel his words in 2 Corinthians 3. That is the plain teaching of the Scripture.

The cold letter of the law as it appeared on the stone tables had no life-giving power. It could only point accusingly at every man, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. An administration of the law based on its letter alone results only in death for violators. But an administration of it based on the forgiveness possible through the action of God's Spirit on the heart results in life. The contrast between "letter" and "spirit" does not mean a contrast between an age of law and an age of freedom from all law. As we have already noted, when God's Spirit is in control, the law's requirements are carried out in our hearts.

What, now, of the "glory" mentioned by Paul? He plainly speaks of the relative glory of two ministrations. The justice and righteousness of God shone forth in awesome, even terrifying glory on Mount Sinai as He proclaimed His law. He stood there as a consuming fire. But how much greater the glory of God that bathed the earth with its life-giving rays where Christ came down to "save his people from their sins." Matt. 1:21. Here was the glory of justice and mercy combined, for in dying for our sins our "transgression of the law" Christ revealed how God at one and the same time could "be just, and the justifier of him which believes in Jesus." Rom. 3:26.

This brings us to the last question: What was “done away" and what "remains"? The question is really already answered. The glory attendant upon the giving of the law is so greatly excelled by the glory attendant upon the saving of men from its violation that Paul could appropriately speak of the first as "glorious" and the second as "the glory that excels.” But right here Paul weaves in an incident in connection with the giving of the law at Sinai to illustrate a point that he wishes to make in the verses that immediately follow this disputed passage. When Moses came down from the mount with the tables of stone in his hands, ”the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him." So Moses "put a veil on his face- while he spoke to the Israelites. (See Ex. 34:29-35)

Paul refers to this: "The children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away." 2 Cor. 3:7. He refers to this again in verse 11, saying it was "done away," and then again in verse 13 in these words: "And not as Moses, which put a vale over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished."

It was the glory of the former ministration, now ended, and not the law administered, that was "done away," "abolished," even, as by historical analogy, Paul reminds them that it was the glory on Moses' face that was "done away.” The record declares that the veil was on Moses' face, not on the tables of stone, that it was his face that shone and not the tables of stone, and that it was the glory on his face that faded, not the luster that ever surrounds the divinely written Ten Commandments.

Well do Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, in their Bible commentary, make this general observation in their comments on 2 Corinthians 3: "Still the moral law of the ten commandments, being written by the finger of God, is as obligatory now as ever; but put more on the Gospel spirit of 'love,' than on the letter of a servile obedience, and in a deeper and fuller spirituality (Matthew 5.17-48; Romans 13.9)."

The law was designed to identify and quantify our sinful nature and show us we were incapable of salvation by adhering to any standard, for we are incapable.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The church is not "under" any law, because Christ is the end of the law as a means of justification and righteousness.

Romans 10:4 KJV: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

But keeping God's commandments is what matters, in contrast to ceremonial concerns like circumcision.

1 Corinthians 7:19 NKJV: Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

biblehub.com

.

Circumcision was part of the law! the MOSAIC LAW contained 613 commands of which ten were written in stone and served as a ministry of death and not life.

Keeping gods command as spelled out in the New Testament for the church and not in the Old Testament as spelled out for the nation of Israel is the focal point that shows our righteousness.

 

[BarneyFife]

Lot of words but He also clearly shows that the law was a pedagogue to lead us to Christ and that the Law was never able to save- but to condemn. Galatians.

Agreed

The law was designed to identify and quantify our sinful nature and show us we were incapable of salvation by adhering to any standard, for we are incapable.

I'm pretty sure that's not all it was designed for.

Circumcision was part of the law! the MOSAIC LAW contained 613 commands of which ten were written in stone and served as a ministry of death and not life.

Keeping gods command as spelled out in the New Testament for the church and not in the Old Testament as spelled out for the nation of Israel is the focal point that shows our righteousness.

I don't think so, Ron. Lot of words but righteousness is by faith and is shown by our fruit "against which there is no law." (Circumcision?)

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[Ronald Nolette]

I'm pretty sure that's not all it was designed for.

That is what Paul said in Galatians. But he also did say the law was to keep Israel until faith came. Once faith came they were no longer under the law.

Gal. 3:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

I don't think so, Ron. Lot of words but righteousness is by faith and is shown by our fruit "against which there is no law." (Circumcision?)

I just said that.

But Mosaic circumcision is only 1/613 of the law.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I don't think so, Ron. Lot of words but righteousness is by faith and is shown by our fruit "against which there is no law."

Some think righteousness is by faith and keeping the law of Moses even though there is nothing in the New Testament that says this is what the Lord requires for salvation.

 

[Wick Stick]

Nobody's going to hell for a little bacon.

But some of us might be going to heaven a little sooner.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Nobody's going to hell for a little bacon.

And they better not be Fakin the beacon

 

[BarneyFife]

Some think righteousness is by faith and keeping the law of Moses even though there is nothing in the New Testament that says this is what the Lord requires for salvation.

"Some think" is how to begin a vacuous, obnoxious, ad hominem remark.

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[Big Boy Johnson]

"Some think" is how to begin a vacuous, obnoxious, ad hominem remark.

So anybody that disagrees with you is attacking you?

What a terrible mind set to have to live with. Must be really bad to be you man!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

"Some think" is how to begin a vacuous, obnoxious, ad hominem remark.

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Hey, brother! Love you!

 

[BarneyFife]

Hey, brother! Love you!

Love u 2, Sis!

Whaddya say let's have us a mess o' Nuteena?!

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[1stCenturyLady]

Love u 2, Sis!

Whaddya say let's have us a mess o' Nuteena?!

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I didn't think they made that anymore. Or maybe I'm thinking of another product. The one I'm thinking of was like a loaf. Cut off both ends and push it out and slice and fry. I loved it.

I looked up Nuteena and see it is what I was thinking of. Look it up and print off the recipe to make it. I have a recipe also for Choplets!