Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

[Heyzeus]

Very true. Scripture treats an unborn child as a child. The argument against a child being a person is based on an argument of secular law (to whom does the Constitution apply). We know that an unborn child can feel pain at 5 months. It amazes me that Christians advocate the dismemberment of such children based on the convenience of the mother (or any other person for that matter).

We have to decide who we follow - secular rights and laws or Christ. One cannot serve both. And I do not begrudge anyone for following the world. But we have to be honest with ourselves and should be honest with each other because we are not pulling the wool over God's eyes by lovingly advocating the murder of children because the Constitution does not necessarily grant them personhood.

Good post .. not that I agree with everything but - you make a clear argument.

1) Scripture treats the unborn as a the cost of a few sheckles .. nowhere near a child .. and is largely silent on the issue .. the only actual abortion mentioned .. was as a proscribed procedure if a husband suspected his pregnant wife was unfaithful .. and a few mention's as some general punishment .. women cursed with miscarriage or some such thing .. other than that .. relative silence

oh ... and lest we forget . as a punishment for idolatry in a town .. kill all the unborn .. and everyone else of course.

2) I give both secular and religious arguments .. but also justify the secular argument on a religious basis .. as after all ..the founding principles as per the Declaration of Independence is based on the Rock on which Jesus bases his teachings

Jesus was not a theocrat .. nor a totalitarian .. "I do not pass judgement - but when I Judge - I do so by authority of the Most High"

I do not think many christians support abortion after 22 weeks .. or even 20 ... heck .. I would be for moving it to 4 months .. If you haven't figured it out by 4 months .. perhaps you are not of the mental capacity to be having that decision ..

Not that I would legislate because that is a more complicated thing but really .. just from a moral perspective .. "Why don't we sell how big we can let it grow before we kill it " Holy Carp .. who thinks like this .. but that is essentially what is going on in these cases.

So .I think you are miscaracterizing the pro choice side .. as one bit Nazi Fembot Unit .. its not. I want to find a reasonable solution.. and 5 months is too long.

3) When does the soul arrive a) and explain why b) where did the soul come from prior to occupying the fleshy vessel c) where will it go after leaving the fleshy vessel .. Can we claim we are killing "A Child .. born or otherwise" "A Person" if the soul is not present.

 

[Giuliano]

It's not illegal to be a lobbyist for a foreign company.
We have a ton of them.
Japan has a consulate here in Nashville TN for the electronics firms to lobby our local government on deals with electronics for AV and internet equipment. (Music and movies industry)

BUT

Lobbyist must be declared, licensed and identified as such. Otherwise it's very illegal...can be construed as espionage.

And Hunter Biden didn't do that.

If that's true, why hasn't he been prosecuted?

 

[JohnDB]

John .. this is a debate forum - you make a claim and then support that claim. What you are doing is making a claim .. and then saying now you go and find support for my claim for me ... and you don't even bother to post a link - not that this is acceptable either .. as at least you should quote something from that link supporting your claim

So then ... when does the soul arrive - and why. Where was the soul prior to entering the fleshy vessel .. and where will the soul go when it leaves that fleshy vessel.

This is what is considered prima facia evidence.
Can you not see the nose plainly visible?

Your argument is with God and not me.

And I'm not going to feed the trolls.

Good day!

 

[amigo de christo]

In this case, I suggest that you not read your own anti-Trump posts. I find them to be very negative.

OOPS . sometimes folks can indeed forget what they have posted and said themselves . Yes indeed sister . You are loved .
Yes you are .

 

[JohnDB]

If that's true, why hasn't he been prosecuted?

That's a very good question...
And I suspect that it has something to do with Joe Biden being a former VP and currently running for president.
Because before the election it can be construed as interference with a federal election. Just because Hunter did a crime doesn't give the FBI license to break another one by carrying out their duty too swiftly. It's not like he can really run and hide. The Secret Service will know where he is.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is a great point!

Sharing what we have through Christian charity is completely different from forced redistribution of wealth.

Examine closely the true spirit behind this redist of wealth . IT comes from the side of those who support abortion
Support transgenderism . Oh but let us remember this too .
Judas iscariot . OH this could have been given to the poor , ONLY he didnt say it cause he loved the poor
but because he was greedy and kept what was put in that redist bag .
THEY ONLY trying to create a system which will serve THEM . REDIST of wealth has nothing to do with the poor .
Its only meant to create a new system .

 

[kcnalp]

The Swamp is DEEP and filled with gators who protect each other, even to the point of murder.

 

[amigo de christo]

The Swamp is DEEP and filled with gators who protect each other, even to the point of murder.

NOT ONLY is it deep . ITS one huge wide swamp . MANY govts and kings are well under its influence .
This stuff goes way above the presidents and kings of this world . ITS real elites at work my friend . Creating their beloved
beast system .

 

[Bobby Jo]

Here's a perspective FEW CHRISTIANS experience in HISTORY, -- an HONEST LOOK AT RACISM:

NOT A RACIST" Black Pastors PRAY and DEFEND President Trump In Atlanta | The Common Sense Show


It's a chilling perspective from Honorable GOD CALLED Men to a GOD CALLED People. -- ABSOLUTELY POWERFUL.

Bobby Jo :)

 

[kcnalp]

NOT ONLY is it deep . ITS one huge wide swamp . MANY govts and kings are well under its influence .
This stuff goes way above the presidents and kings of this world . ITS real elites at work my friend . Creating their beloved
beast system .

Revelation 13:7 (NKJV)
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

 

[Giuliano]

That's a very good question...
And I suspect that it has something to do with Joe Biden being a former VP and currently running for president.
Because before the election it can be construed as interference with a federal election. Just because Hunter did a crime doesn't give the FBI license to break another one by carrying out their duty too swiftly. It's not like he can really run and hide. The Secret Service will know where he is.

Which way is it? Did the Trump administration give him a pass because his dad had been VP? That would mean the Trump administration is also corrupt. Does it mean that the real reason it's coming up now is because Joe is running against Trump? If that's true, then that shows political bias. If Joe hadn't run, they'd ignore it; but if Joe runs, then they dig up to be used as propaganda in a political campaign? If it's true, why talk about it -- why not prosecute him?

 

[JohnDB]

Which way is it? Did the Trump administration give him a pass because his dad had been VP? That would mean the Trump administration is also corrupt. Does it mean that the real reason it's coming up now is because Joe is running against Trump? If that's true, then that shows political bias. If Joe hadn't run, they'd ignore it; but if Joe runs, then they dig up to be used as propaganda in a political campaign? If it's true, why talk about it -- why not prosecute him?

The FBI might be investigating...but not commenting (per their standard operating procedure) and waiting for the appropriate time of having a completed investigation and avoiding interfering with the election.

Guiliani?
He has no such compunction.
And Guiliani wouldn't even know if the FBI had returned the call from the computer shop explaining things more in detail and then slapping him with a gag order.

But the computer guy was likely wanting his $85 or to sell the laptop.

 

[John Caldwell]

Good post .. not that I agree with everything but - you make a clear argument.

1) Scripture treats the unborn as a the cost of a few sheckles .. nowhere near a child .. and is largely silent on the issue .. the only actual abortion mentioned .. was as a proscribed procedure if a husband suspected his pregnant wife was unfaithful .. and a few mention's as some general punishment .. women cursed with miscarriage or some such thing .. other than that .. relative silence

oh ... and lest we forget . as a punishment for idolatry in a town .. kill all the unborn .. and everyone else of course.

2) I give both secular and religious arguments .. but also justify the secular argument on a religious basis .. as after all ..the founding principles as per the Declaration of Independence is based on the Rock on which Jesus bases his teachings

Jesus was not a theocrat .. nor a totalitarian .. "I do not pass judgement - but when I Judge - I do so by authority of the Most High"

I do not think many christians support abortion after 22 weeks .. or even 20 ... heck .. I would be for moving it to 4 months .. If you haven't figured it out by 4 months .. perhaps you are not of the mental capacity to be having that decision ..

Not that I would legislate because that is a more complicated thing but really .. just from a moral perspective .. "Why don't we sell how big we can let it grow before we kill it " Holy Carp .. who thinks like this .. but that is essentially what is going on in these cases.

So .I think you are miscaracterizing the pro choice side .. as one bit Nazi Fembot Unit .. its not. I want to find a reasonable solution.. and 5 months is too long.

3) When does the soul arrive a) and explain why b) where did the soul come from prior to occupying the fleshy vessel c) where will it go after leaving the fleshy vessel .. Can we claim we are killing "A Child .. born or otherwise" "A Person" if the soul is not present.

It is true Scripture treats the unborn (and, to be honest, the born) as a type of value (specifically in loss). But Scripture also is very clear regarding specific unborn persons as reacting and being known by God.

There is no evidence, for example, that John was soulless when he jumped or that God consecrated a soulless Jeremiah in the womb.

If anything I believe I have been under critical of the pro-choice side. I understand that some may have supported the Holocaust for economic reasons, but I cannot but believe their support wrong regardless of their reasoning. If this is true of the Holocaust then it is true of abortion (which is a far greater sin).

 

[kcnalp]

Scripture treats the unborn as a the cost of a few sheckles .. nowhere near a child ..

Luke 1:41-44 (NKJV)
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For indeed, as soon as the voice of your greeting sounded in my ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Abortion is murder! Receive mercy from God. Be merciful to the unborn who cannot yet speak for themselves. Don't kill them. Let them live.

Matthew 5:7 (NKJV)
7 Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
James 2:13 (NKJV)
13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy.

 

[Heart2Soul]

The fetus was aborted in the Netherlands back in the 1950's and the cells harvested were from the kidney tissues.

The cell lines have been producing and multiplying since then.

Just in case you didn't know.

This is correct. Only one fetus's tissue was used to produce a master copy of dna.
All vaccines today are not made from fresh aborted baby parts.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Very true. Scripture treats an unborn child as a child. The argument against a child being a person is based on an argument of secular law (to whom does the Constitution apply). We know that an unborn child can feel pain at 5 months. It amazes me that Christians advocate the dismemberment of such children based on the convenience of the mother (or any other person for that matter).

We have to decide who we follow - secular rights and laws or Christ. One cannot serve both. And I do not begrudge anyone for following the world. But we have to be honest with ourselves and should be honest with each other because we are not pulling the wool over God's eyes by lovingly advocating the murder of children because the Constitution does not necessarily grant them personhood.

Has anyone ever given any thought to Elizabeth's fetus in her womb? When Mary (also pregnant with Jesus) was approaching the baby in Elizabeth's womb leaped for joy.
Now think about it....the unborn child hasn't seen anyone visually to recognize them, probably hasn't heard Mary's voice much if at all....and how would it know that Mary was carrying Jesus in her womb?
This is how.....spiritual discernment! The unborn child's spirit discerned the Messiah's spirit inside Mary!!!!!!

 

[kcnalp]

This is correct. Only one fetus's tissue was used to produce a master copy of dna.
All vaccines today are not made from fresh aborted baby parts.

Are they made in Communist China?

 

[Heart2Soul]

Are they made in Communist China?

What difference does it make? But as already stated above it was from the Netherlands.

 

[Seven of Nine]

The fetus was aborted in the Netherlands back in the 1950's and the cells harvested were from the kidney tissues.

The cell lines have been producing and multiplying since then.

Just in case you didn't know.

Hi JohnDB. Would you post some sources for me please? Thanks.

 

[kcnalp]

What difference does it make? But as already stated above it was from the Netherlands.

I asked because nearly all our meds are made in Communist China. Just curious. Wouldn't that be an interesting money trail!