Is heaven only for Christians? - That's convenient

[soberxp]

Was Isaiah 53 prophetic?

On another forum, I ran into some proponents of Open Theism, which holds that while God does have a plan, He is not able to know the future choices of creatures with free will with absolute certainty, so He has to wing it as we go. You meet all kinds on an internet forum.

"God knows all things, and Jesus said, 'Even the very hairs of your head are all numbered' (Matthew 10:30)."

"In my view, the discovery of computer programming—with its debugging tools designed to detect and correct errors—parallels a profound biblical metaphor.

Genesis reveals that God intentionally created the serpent with a ‘debugging mode’ of cunning (Genesis 3:1). This allowed it to test humanity’s free will, much like a debugger tests a program’s integrity. Scripture clarifies that ‘God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone’ (James 1:13). Yet the serpent, exercising its free will under divine allowance, became an agent of trial.

From this perspective, I see everything as part of God’s sovereign plan: to craft beings who, through free will, attain perfection—neither losing themselves to rebellion (like Adam) nor becoming robotic automatons. The end goal is a humanity that freely chooses holiness, mirroring Christ’s sinless obedience (Hebrews 4:15).

Key Analogy Breakdown:

1. Debugging Mode: The serpent’s role as a ‘tester’ of human obedience.
2. Free Will: The capacity to choose, essential for genuine love and worship (Joshua 24:15).
3. Divine Sovereignty: God’s ultimate purpose—to refine, not destroy (Zechariah 13:9).

This framework harmonizes human responsibility with God’s redemptive design, culminating in ‘new creations’ (2 Corinthians 5:17) who are both free and flawless."

Biblical Support:
Romans 8:20–21: Creation was subjected to frustration "in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay."

Revelation 21:5: "I am making everything new!"

The tension between free will and divine perfection finds resolution in Christ’s reconciling work (Colossians 1:20).

 

[Lambano]

1. Debugging Mode: The serpent’s role as a ‘tester’ of human obedience.
2. Free Will: The capacity to choose, essential for genuine love and worship (Joshua 24:15).
3. Divine Sovereignty: God’s ultimate purpose—to refine, not destroy (Zechariah 13:9).

@St. SteVen will likely agree with point 3 there.

Yet I cannot help but be concerned for those who will be destroyed by the refining process.

 

[St. SteVen]

Yet I cannot help but be concerned for those who will be destroyed by the refining process.

Is a ship destroyed by barnacle removal?

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[Lambano]

Is a ship destroyed by barnacle removal?

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The barnacles were the only thing plugging the hole in the stern.

Eh, that sounds pretty vulgar. Let's make that, "The barnacles were the only thing holding the ship together."

 

[Lambano]

You refine gold by burning off the dross. But you may find after you burn off the dross there ain't no gold in there.

 

[St. SteVen]

"The barnacles were the only thing holding the ship together."

You refine gold by burning off the dross. But you may find after you burn off the dross there ain't no gold in there.

The great physician can resurrect a soul from the shipwreck of life and make it sea-worthy again.

1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NIV
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

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[Jack]

Hell will be filled with BILLIONS of humans who don't believe in Hell!

Rev 20 They will be tormented day and night FOREVER!