Is BAPTISM MANDATORY for SALVATION...

[Seasoned by Grace]

....but SALVATION IS ALSO CONDITIONAL. (Paul speaks of salvation.).

Now you have to understand that this has always been a DEVISIVE TOPIC, and always will be.

My title of this thread and my explaination here are my HEART FELT beliefs from scriptures, but not meant to be forced on anyone here.
You all have the right to your own beliefs, and I'm just sharing mine as another choice you may consider after reading my post.

I am not a "GLADIATOR coming here to the "COLISEUM of Christian WARFARE.
I don't fight - I DISCUSS.
Thank you God!!

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42 years ago when I gave my life to Christ, Christianity was much different than today.
Romans 14"22 Says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God.
Happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves".

Some of what was believed at the time when I was Born Again 42 years ago, I still hold as true, while there are many other teachings, I have discovered through my studies and prayer life, and leading of the Holy Spirit, I found that there are false teachings of major bible doctrine at every church I have ever attended.

I have spent 42 years not only reading, studying, and researching the bible, but I have studied the history of the bible and church history from the beginning.

I am 76 years old and have had 17 years of retirement, and have spent thousands of hours in my studies, so I feel confident that I am at least right for myself.
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To me "Believing" is not a point of salvation, but is a beginning point where we are lead to a conditional state of being saved, where the process of salvation begins, when at our time of baptism before we are baptized, we confess our faith in Christ by proclaiming "WE BELIVE in Christ as our Savior, and we repent of our sins and ask God for forgiveness of our past sinful life, Acts 2:38 and once we are "BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST" Romans 6:3, and are forgiven of our sins Acts 2:38, and receive the "GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT Acts 2;38.
When studied out in the original Greek language , the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT is conditional, as told to us in 2nd Corinthians 1:21-22,'Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us, is God:
22)Who has "SEALED (arrabon or sphragizo) us (A temporary or conditional mark of ownership that we can give up in rebellion) and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a "PLEDGE" or"EARNEST" (arrabon or sphragizo Down payment ,temporary guarantee, deposit earnest agreement as in buying a house, that we must fulfill).
Same as 2nd Cor, 5:5 says, "Now he who prepared us for the very purpose of eternal life(See verse 4) is God, who Gave to us the SPIRIT as a PLEDGE.
Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God who you were sealed by (sphragizo or arrabon) unto the day of redemption.

So as 2nd Cor. 5:17 says, "if any man IS IN CHRIST (You have to be in CHRIST) he is a new creation. "

How do you get into Christ??
Back to Romans 6:3 "Or do you not know that all who have been "BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"...have been BAPTIZED into His death.

6:5) "For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death (Through baptism), certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection .
5:11) "...so consider yourself to be dead to sin, but alive to God "IN CHRIST"

Again, how do you get into Christ? - Romans 6:3 "YOU ARE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"!!

Romans 8:1," There is therefore no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS."

Again, how do you get into Christ Jesus - Romans 6:3 , "YOU ARE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"

Romans 8:9, "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to God."

Again, How do we get the Spirit of Christ? - Acts 3:38, "We are baptized and receive the GIFT of the Holy spirit.

We can be freed from sin - in BAPTISM - Romans6:7,"...for he who has been BAPTIZED is FREED FROM SIN."
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The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are the same and there is only one way to receive either - that's through BAPTISM

So is baptism MANDATORY?
You can ask for forgiveness of your past sins - BAPTISM
You can be forgiven - BAPTISM
You can repent of your sins - BAPTISM
You can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit - BAPTISM
You can be in Christ - BAPTISM
You can be freed from sin - BAPTISM
Romans 6:7,"For he who has been BAPTIZED is freed from sin."
You can receive an earnest or down payment on eternal life. - BAPTISM.

Where else in the bible do you get all this in one act of obeying God about our starting place and foundation for being saved and salvation????

Salvation is also conditional on observing the Sabbath
Salvation is also conditional on obeying the 10 Commandments
Another day!!

There is so much more, but I'm close to writing a small book.
God bless you all
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Candidus]

Define "Baptism"...

 

[Willie T]

I'm put in mind of the man who wonders if he should wear a wedding ring. "I married her, didn't I? That should be plenty! Why make a public declaration of it?"

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Define "Baptism"...

I think I did in almost a book size post :).

God bless you CANDIDUS,
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I'm put in mind of the man who wonders if he should wear a wedding ring. "I married her, didn't I? That should be plenty! Why make a public declaration of it?"

For the sake of others who are still searching or wondering, or want another view they could possibly consider.
I post here for others as it profits me nothing. At 76 I've already had my 15 minutes of fame several times in a hobby I enjoy, and don't need any recognition or notoriety.
I just think the faith God has lead me to is worth hearing about and considering.

Or... why does anyone else post their opinions here - even yourself?? I've read several of yours.

God bless my friend
Mu name is OLIGOS

 

[Willie T]

For the sake of others who are still searching or wondering, or want another view they could possibly consider.
I post here for others as it profits me nothing. At 76 I've already had my 15 minutes of fame several times in a hobby I enjoy, and don't need any recognition or notoriety.
I just think the faith God has lead me to is worth hearing about and considering.

Or... why does anyone else post their opinions here - even yourself?? I've read several of yours.

God bless my friend
Mu name is OLIGOS

Sorry, I didn't realize you had purchased this forum, and were now allowing only your opinions to be expressed.

 

[Enoch111]

My title of this thread and my explaination here are my HEART FELT beliefs from scriptures, but not meant to be forced on anyone here.

You can be very sincere, and yet sincerely WRONG.

God's Truth and Gospel Truth does not change. Salvation (justification) is by grace through faith + NOTHING (Eph 2:8,9)

Baptism does not ADD to salvation but confirms that salvation is an accomplished fact.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Sorry, I didn't realize you had purchased this forum, and were now allowing only your opinions to be expressed.

Now see there you go attacking me for anything you can think of.
You and I are brothers in Christ and we need to keep it light my friend.
I'd rather tell jokes than act like a gladiator.
I love life and enjoy people so lets be friends even if we disagree on some things.
Your a pretty cool guy and I know you love Christ, so lets love each other too.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

You can be very sincere, and yet sincerely WRONG.

God's Truth and Gospel Truth does not change. Salvation (justification) is by grace through faith + NOTHING (Eph 2:8,9)

Baptism does not ADD to salvation but confirms that salvation is an accomplished fact.

Well my friend and brother in Christ, there are so many opinions here I'd just thought I'd add mine.
I see your posts here and know you are determined to be heard which is cool.
I'm not here to argue with anyone.
I'm a lover of people and life, and no matter how people get in my face, I just don't care because I'm secure in where I am in Christ, and nobody here has all the truth anyway - not even me.

So we might as well just enjoy each others company and just agree to disagree in love.

God bless my friend.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[APAK]

First, the grace of YHWH and the essential gift of faith he also provides is essential for salvation.

However, this grace is given only if we demonstrate from the heart, genuine acceptance/belief in his Son. So yes, the gift is given conditionally to those that truly believe in the gospel message for salvation, willing to repent and believe in Christ and his work on the cross. This is where the believers’ baptism is an essential part.

The Greek word ‘baptizo’ means to dip, submerge or plunge under water. The definition though does not do justice to its true meaning for salvation.

Baptism is the belief and identification with Christ of his death, burial and resurrection to glory. We truly believe we also die to sin into a new life as Christ.

We believe once we take to heart the gospel message, confess and repent of our sins sincerely, that Christ was first baptized by water immersion, in public, to show to his Father in heaven his total willingness and commitment to sacrifice his life on the cross for the permanent cleansing of human sin. And that we more importantly also believe in his actual death, burial, and resurrection back to life in glory. This is a believer’s baptism.

A sincere, heartfelt- believing baptism then immediately provides the gift of the Spirit into our heart that brings us the spirit of Christ to us as the gift of salvation.

The water immersion baptism is the outward public demonstration that we are bonded or wed to the Spirit of YHWH, in/into Christ’s spirit. We are demonstrating a spirit bond as it were, all three, as one spirit.

Note: there is a big difference between the Spirit and the spirit of Christ. The former is YHWH, the deliverer, and what is delivered is Christ’s spirit, infused into our heart. As John the Baptism was given the spirit of Elijah by the Spirit of YHWH at birth, so we as believers are given the spirit of Christ for our salvation at the end of our ‘Baptism,’ as a seal of approval and the commencement of the new life in(into) Christ.

The spirit of Christ brings to our heart, the love and truth of the Father, along with the gift of faith that sustains us and enables us to produce fruits and other spiritual works that are pleasing to the Father.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[Enoch111]

Well my friend and brother in Christ, there are so many opinions here I'd just thought I'd add mine.

We should not be dealing in opinions but in Bible Truth. Since you are clearly mistaken, perhaps you should dig a little deeper.

 

[mailmandan]

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[marks]

Salvation is also conditional on observing the Sabbath
Salvation is also conditional on obeying the 10 Commandments
Another day!!

There is so much more, but I'm close to writing a small book.
God bless you all
My name is OLIGOS

Hi Oligos,

Surprised to see this post from you! I had no idea that you thought this way.

Aren't the 10 commandments a lower standard than what we're taught in the New Testament as God's children?

Much love!

 

[marks]

So is baptism MANDATORY?

To clarify . . . Baptism into water, or baptism into Christ, or do you see baptism into Christ accomplished by immersion into water?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 6:7,"For he who has been BAPTIZED is freed from sin."

But this makes me wonder if you are having one over on us . . .

 

[marks]

(A temporary or conditional mark of ownership that we can give up in rebellion)

This is the part I've never seen in Scripture. I've never seen that God has in His design that His children, the 'born again', might 'die again'.

Where exactly do you see this?

Much love!

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Like I said - LOT"S OF OPINIONS.

So glad I'm grounded in m

Hi Oligos,

Surprised to see this post from you! I had now idea that you thought this way.

Aren't the 10 commandments a lower standard than what we're taught in the New Testament as God's children?

Much love!

Marks my friend and brother in Christ.
One of the major discrepencies I have seen in the Christian faith for many decade is the idea of Christians seeing many things as one way or the other in the bible, but Christians have a hard time seeing things as being all inclusive.
Instead of choosing everything that makes faith, they choose one thing and reject everything else.

God says the 2 greatest commands are to love the lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength.
And the 2nd is like the first to love your neighbor as yourself.

We're also told we are known by the love we have for one another as Christians.

We're also told to love our enemies and pray for those who persecute you.
Also the 10 commandments tell us how to live to treat man, and also how to please God.

Everything I have listed here is all inclusive .
The 2 greatest commands don't replace the 10 commandments. Nothing here replaces anything.
We're not supposed to be selective about which verses to obey as if it is some king of smorgasbord, we're supposed to obey them all. I do!!
That makes my faith complete instead of selective or opposed to scripture.
After all God's New Testament word is perfect, so we have to figure out how to find "HARMONY in Gods word instead of dividing it up and setting words and phrases against each other to try and make sense of something we haven't taken the proper time to understand properly because we're in to big of a hurry, or we've decided what it is we want to believe and then reject the rest of what the bible says about that topic.

God bless you my brother and I know you'll have more questions, so feel free to ask away.

What I posted as a thread and my answer here to you is "SHALLOW compared to the "COMPLETENESS of my faith.

It took me 42 years to get to the depth I'm at and only by the "INTENSE" leading of the Holy Spirit, and His Gracious patience, as I was overwhelmed more times than I can count or remember.

10's of thousands of hours of study to set me on a path that built a faith I find great Joy and assurance in at the feet of my SAVIOR.

This was a journey God chose for me and took me on, nothing I chose for myself.

Many biblical things revealed by God that I would never have found for myself, as my eyes had to be opened to see what God showed me in scripture.

What is wonderful is, no matter what anything anyone thinks of what I've posted, I am at peace with my creator and everything works for me.
I don't have to believe like anyone else does as some try to accomplish here, and no one has to believe what I post.

This is posted to be considered as an option, not a demand.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

This is the part I've never seen in Scripture. I've never seen that God has in His design that His children, the 'born again', might 'die again'.

Where exactly do you see this?

Much love!

My friend. You won't find it in ENGLISH. You'll find it in the exciting study of the Koine Greek language, that was the PEOPLES LANGUAGE of Jesus day.

Did you know that Jesus spoke Greek and not Hebrew except in the synagogues.
300 years before Jesus was born, Alexander the great conquered most of the known world 300 years before Jesus was born, and Alexander spread his favorite language over most the world enabling the Gospel of Christ to be sent all over the world as part of God's plan to spread the gospel at the right time.
By the time Jesus came, the Hebrew language was obsolete as a conversational everyday language for over 300 years, so the common language over most of the world was Greek like English is today. The majority of people including Jesus were multi-lingual
People still spoke their native languages like people speak theirs today.

I have studied Greek history, Oriental history, Roman history, biblical history, history of the church from it's beginning, the history of the Sabbath from creation until now. I even studied the American history of Christianity, and how the Sabbath was first observed in the colonies.

I will post more on your question as it getting close to lunch and my gym time .

God bless you my friend.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[marks]

My friend. You won't find it in ENGLISH. You'll find it in the exciting study of the Koine Greek language, that was the PEOPLES LANGUAGE of Jesus day.

Did you know that Jesus spoke Greek and not Hebrew except in the synagogues.
300 years before Jesus was born, Alexander the great conquered most of the known world 300 years before Jesus was born, and Alexander spread his favorite language over most the world enabling the Gospel of Christ to be sent all over the world as part of God's plan to spread the gospel at the right time.
By the time Jesus came, the Hebrew language was obsolete as a conversational everyday language for over 300 years, so the common language over most of the world was Greek like English is today. The majority of people including Jesus were multi-lingual
People still spoke their native languages like people speak theirs today.

I have studied Greek history, Oriental history, Roman history, biblical history, history of the church from it's beginning, the history of the Sabbath from creation until now. I even studied the American history of Christianity, and how the Sabbath was first observed in the colonies.

I will post more on your question as it getting close to lunch and my gym time .

God bless you my friend.
My name is OLIGOS

Greek, yes, NT in Greek, inspired in Greek, I'm glad we're on the same page with that.

As much as I've studied in both the English translations, and the various Greek manuscripts, I've become more and more convinced that being reborn is a forever thing. That is why I'm interested in where you see this idea of the born again dying again in the Bible.

I'm hoping you will give a simple and straightforward reply. Pages of convoluted reasonings tend to lose me!

Much love!

 

[marks]

and no one has to believe what I post.

Although you've posted these things are required for salvation, yes?