Is America Becoming A Force For Evil In The World?

[Eric E Stahl]

Yes!

 

[tom55]

"Maybe rjp has an answer for you, but I can certainly think of a few countries that don't have long records of internal abuse or international violence..."

Michael V Pardo

So what is YOUR answer? Name those "few countries". I am curious! :unsure:
RJP said:

"I will not attempt to answer your question as to which nation on earth is the best because top-dog in that regard is mostly subjective. I can quote statistics which prove America is sinking to third world status in nearly every category except military supremacy(1), financial influence(2) and global arrogance(3), but such comparisons will only muddy the water.

The reality of life in the USA in the twenty first century is that every man and woman, boy and girl is coming face to face with one unavoidable fact. Choose God and the right living He directs or choose hedonistic hypocritical pleasure demanded by the culture we live in.


America has denied God, hates God and has told God in no uncertain terms to hit the road. I know it. You know it. Even scoffers know it. Tell me then what reality America may thus expect from the hand of God? Will God bless America? I think not. God is not an American."


I say to you RJP:

You will not attempt it because you can't name a country better than America. There may be some countries that are better than us in certain aspects but in general, overall, we are a great country.

When VALE OF TEARS wrote this I felt like standing up and applauding (even though I was in the room all by myself): "We stopped the fascists, the Nazis, the Imperial Japanese, and brought down the Evil Empire of the Soviet Union. We did this because we are an exceptional country with a unique regard toward human liberty. We have been a force for righteousness in this world and I won't allow this country to be slandered otherwise."

The only thing I would add to his great statement is that America, unlike other countries that have conquered other nations, has helped those countries rebuild after we have defeated them. BECAUSE WE ARE AN EXPECTIONAL COUNTRY!

When a natural disaster strikes other countries AMERICA is there with all kinds of aid to help. Usually with more than any other country provides materially OR financially. It comes from our government and people digging deep into their pockets. BECAUSE WE ARE AN EXCEPTIONAL PEOPLE!

AMERICA is the top destination for permanent immigrants in the world. Even foreigners recognize something you don't; our greatness. BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY!

AMERICANS by far go out on more missionary trips then any other people in any other country. BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT PEOPLE!

When a natural disaster strikes local communities donations pour in from all the other States. When a money jar is set out at your local gas station to help a sick child or a needy family in the community that jar is quickly filled with cash. BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT PEOPLE!

Our government spends billions of dollars on foreign aid for things like HIV/AIDS, maternal/child health, malaria, TB and food assistance. BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY!

During slavery in this country (it still goes on in other countries) there were a lot of people against it. Laws were passed to curtail it or get rid of it and we basically fought a war to help end it. Why? Because at our core we knew it was wrong and it took a long slow process to rid ourselves of it. Just like the Jim Crow laws. There are still other countries that do the things we used to do. But we have grown to be a better nation/people. BECAUSE WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY!

If you want to look for the bad in me (or you or your neighbor or spouse) and dig up all the bad we did in our past then you could make anyone sound like a monster. That is what you are doing now and I am embarrassed for you. You say America has denied God and hates God. America is internationally and undeniably recognized as the most religious nation in the world. You have nothing to back it up. I almost feel you are a troll on this website and your purpose here is to spew lies and hatred. But I could be wrong.

You and others on this post like Michael Pardo keep making generalizations about this great country. Just because our government has done some bad things in the past (like EVERY government in this world has done) doesn't mean we are a bad nation; it means we have made mistakes. Our good far out weighs our bad. Those mistakes were made by MEN in charge of this country. It doesn't mean we are a bad country. We are sometimes governed by bad MEN! That is why neither of you can name a country greater than America. Because there is none. WE ARE A GREAT COUNTRY!

The question shouldn't be Is America becoming a force for evil in this world. It should be: Is ________ (fill in the blank) becoming a force for evil in this world? I could fill in that blank with 180+ other countries. How many countries could you name?

 

[Mr.Bride]

America was once a great country when people would listen to God. Now you have laws set forth and ones that are coming to pass to stop you from worship or obeying God. The majority of the leaders are heathen. The few that love God are overwhelmed by the many. Don't deceive yourself about America. It is done. They have crossed the line and cannot return. They've rejected Jesus Christ. There's no hope for America as a nation. God is now dealing with us as individuals. You can't hide how corrupt this nation has become. Priorities all messed up. 9 where the 2 supposed to be and 4 where there's supposed to be 21. Yes it is now a force for evil. Gods chosen can only shine lights into this darkness and show forth His glory.

America: Another story of how a prosperous, God-fearing nation can degenerate and decay. We were "The Nation" and there won't be another like we were. We are in the last days.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Michael V Pardo

So what is YOUR answer? Name those "few countries". I am curious! :unsure:

Hello Tom,
My maternal grandparents were of Slovak descent, one born there, the other here. I don't know what the dominant ethnicities are now, but Slovakia was once a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, and became part of the nation of Czechoslovakia during the Nazi regime in Germany. The reason that they typically were part of some other empire was because the people native to the area were mostly agrarian, predominantly Catholic, unaggressive toward their neighbors, generally friendly toward strangers, and generally a peaceful people. Such people tend to be easy conquests for imperial regimes. The reason my grandparent's families emigrated to the U.S. was for a chance of economic prosperity and to avoid conflicts in Europe. My paternal grandparents were from Spain, which has a long history of imperial and colonial endeavors. They emigrated to the U.S. primarily for a chance of economic prosperity and to avoid conflicts in Spain (a civil war,) and Europe in general (WW I and the threat of another.)
The original colonists that founded the U.S. had similar reasons for coming here, a chance at economic prosperity and to avoid persecutions and conflict. The international image of the U.S. has historically been as a place of potential economic prosperity, and that's been enough to have drawn the bulk of the immigrant population since the days that our nation was founded, e.g. the Chinese immigrants of the 1800's and even many of those who still come here today came because the U.S.A. had "mountains of gold." Gold has always been a great motivator to people with nothing. However, the "blessing" of prosperity and land ownership for some has always been at the cost of others; e.g. the buying and selling of human beings as a labor force first predominantly in the South, but threatening to spread throughout the newer western territories in the years building to our civil war. Not to mention the displacement of native Americans to "unsettled" territories, and then to less and less hospitable "reservations" as the needs of a growing and land greedy population increased. Many professing Christians compared the conquest of the American territories to the conquest of the land of Canaan in order to justify stealing lands from the former inhabitants, but conveniently managed to forget that many of the native Americans had converted to Christianity through the efforts of evangelists, devout priests and monks seeking to bring salvation to "the heathen." Many of the Chinese immigrants found only hard labor, laying track and digging tunnels for the new railroads, rather than their mountains of gold. More than a few found only early graves in desolate places along the railroad waysides. Men like my maternal grandfather spent the bulk of their days in holes in the ground digging coal by lamp light to fuel forges and provide coke for steel production, and other industry. Many received the wages of an early death from "black lung" disease and other industrial hazards that were "just a part of the job."
It wasn't until the late 1800s that the nation had managed to fully subjugate the native peoples and establish a nation sea to sea controlled by the extremely wealthy, and fueled largely by the hard labor of a predominantly immigrant work force. If it weren't for the rise of the threat of communism in Europe, and the western answer of "labor unions" in our nation, we most likely would have become a dictatorship or oligarchy already.
The nation was founded largely upon those noble documents that we call our constitution and bill of rights, but corrupt judges installed by elitist presidents with the agenda of increasing federal power have reinterpreted the constitution and in many ways abrogated both that document and the bill of rights. If you're interested in pursuing an understanding of the events and decisions that have corrupted the vision of our founders, I would recommend a book written by Mark Levin entitled "Men in Black" that presents an accurate history of the corruption of the judiciary through Supreme court decisions based upon biases and reinterpretations of the intent of the documents upon which our nation was founded. While Levin represents a view of extreme conservatism in general, the man is well educated in constitutional law and its history. The "Politically incorrect guide to The Founding Fathers" is also very revealing with regard to the formation of our nation, the rise of the landowner and industrial elite, and the somewhat flawed motives of those who committed such high ideals of freedom and liberty to our understanding of national politics.
While in University studies, I read and had to write some papers upon a few ethnographic studies for a course in anthropology which helped me to understand the "western" agenda. I read about the Yanamamo people of the Amazon river basin, the Ba'mbuti of the Congo, the Semai of Malasia, and a few others whose names I no longer recall. Most of these people no longer exist in their native environments and what cultures they've had are largely destroyed and absorbed by those who were either more aggressive or more persistent and better armed. The problem that all these people had in common was the incursion of other people who wanted to profit by the land that they occupied. The job of field anthropologists has been primarily to do studies of indigenous peoples prior to their invasion by entrepreneurs. Cultural homogeneity allows marketers to maximize the profits of industrial producers: i.e. if you can alter the values of peoples to crass and self indulgent pursuit you can create large and manageable markets for consumables. If that's what makes a nation great, then we certainly are among the best. If expertise in exploitation is admirable, then we can certainly glory in that as well. Before you judge any of us too harshly, perhaps you should consider that as Christians we are called to expose the deeds of darkness, not rationalize them because we have benefited by them or through them. God used Babylon to bring judgment against Israel, but He also placed His people in Babylon to gain benefit through Babylon's prosperity. However, He never intended for them to become Babylonians themselves.

 

[tom55]

Hello Tom,
My maternal grandparents were of Slovak descent, one born there, the other here. I don't know what the dominant ethnicities are now, but Slovakia was once a part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, and became part of the nation of Czechoslovakia during the Nazi regime in Germany. The reason that they typically were part of some other empire was because the people native to the area were mostly agrarian, predominantly Catholic, unaggressive toward their neighbors, generally friendly toward strangers, and generally a peaceful people. Such people tend to be easy conquests for imperial regimes. The reason my grandparent's families emigrated to the U.S. was for a chance of economic prosperity and to avoid conflicts in Europe. My paternal grandparents were from Spain, which has a long history of imperial and colonial endeavors. They emigrated to the U.S. primarily for a chance of economic prosperity and to avoid conflicts in Spain (a civil war,) and Europe in general (WW I and the threat of another.)
The original colonists that founded the U.S. had similar reasons for coming here, a chance at economic prosperity and to avoid persecutions and conflict. The international image of the U.S. has historically been as a place of potential economic prosperity, and that's been enough to have drawn the bulk of the immigrant population since the days that our nation was founded, e.g. the Chinese immigrants of the 1800's and even many of those who still come here today came because the U.S.A. had "mountains of gold." Gold has always been a great motivator to people with nothing. However, the "blessing" of prosperity and land ownership for some has always been at the cost of others; e.g. the buying and selling of human beings as a labor force first predominantly in the South, but threatening to spread throughout the newer western territories in the years building to our civil war. Not to mention the displacement of native Americans to "unsettled" territories, and then to less and less hospitable "reservations" as the needs of a growing and land greedy population increased. Many professing Christians compared the conquest of the American territories to the conquest of the land of Canaan in order to justify stealing lands from the former inhabitants, but conveniently managed to forget that many of the native Americans had converted to Christianity through the efforts of evangelists, devout priests and monks seeking to bring salvation to "the heathen." Many of the Chinese immigrants found only hard labor, laying track and digging tunnels for the new railroads, rather than their mountains of gold. More than a few found only early graves in desolate places along the railroad waysides. Men like my maternal grandfather spent the bulk of their days in holes in the ground digging coal by lamp light to fuel forges and provide coke for steel production, and other industry. Many received the wages of an early death from "black lung" disease and other industrial hazards that were "just a part of the job."
It wasn't until the late 1800s that the nation had managed to fully subjugate the native peoples and establish a nation sea to sea controlled by the extremely wealthy, and fueled largely by the hard labor of a predominantly immigrant work force. If it weren't for the rise of the threat of communism in Europe, and the western answer of "labor unions" in our nation, we most likely would have become a dictatorship or oligarchy already.
The nation was founded largely upon those noble documents that we call our constitution and bill of rights, but corrupt judges installed by elitist presidents with the agenda of increasing federal power have reinterpreted the constitution and in many ways abrogated both that document and the bill of rights. If you're interested in pursuing an understanding of the events and decisions that have corrupted the vision of our founders, I would recommend a book written by Mark Levin entitled "Men in Black" that presents an accurate history of the corruption of the judiciary through Supreme court decisions based upon biases and reinterpretations of the intent of the documents upon which our nation was founded. While Levin represents a view of extreme conservatism in general, the man is well educated in constitutional law and its history. The "Politically incorrect guide to The Founding Fathers" is also very revealing with regard to the formation of our nation, the rise of the landowner and industrial elite, and the somewhat flawed motives of those who committed such high ideals of freedom and liberty to our understanding of national politics.
While in University studies, I read and had to write some papers upon a few ethnographic studies for a course in anthropology which helped me to understand the "western" agenda. I read about the Yanamamo people of the Amazon river basin, the Ba'mbuti of the Congo, the Semai of Malasia, and a few others whose names I no longer recall. Most of these people no longer exist in their native environments and what cultures they've had are largely destroyed and absorbed by those who were either more aggressive or more persistent and better armed. The problem that all these people had in common was the incursion of other people who wanted to profit by the land that they occupied. The job of field anthropologists has been primarily to do studies of indigenous peoples prior to their invasion by entrepreneurs. Cultural homogeneity allows marketers to maximize the profits of industrial producers: i.e. if you can alter the values of peoples to crass and self indulgent pursuit you can create large and manageable markets for consumables. If that's what makes a nation great, then we certainly are among the best. If expertise in exploitation is admirable, then we can certainly glory in that as well. Before you judge any of us too harshly, perhaps you should consider that as Christians we are called to expose the deeds of darkness, not rationalize them because we have benefited by them or through them. God used Babylon to bring judgment against Israel, but He also placed His people in Babylon to gain benefit through Babylon's prosperity. However, He never intended for them to become Babylonians themselves.

Michael Pardo:

Thanks for educating us about your family history and some personal experiences in your life. However, you didn't answer my question! Unless I missed the answer in your extensive response? You did mention Israel in your post. So I will start it off. I think Israel is as great a nation as America is. Now it's your turn.......

America was once a great country when people would listen to God. Now you have laws set forth and ones that are coming to pass to stop you from worship or obeying God. The majority of the leaders are heathen. The few that love God are overwhelmed by the many. Don't deceive yourself about America. It is done. They have crossed the line and cannot return. They've rejected Jesus Christ. There's no hope for America as a nation. God is now dealing with us as individuals. You can't hide how corrupt this nation has become. Priorities all messed up. 9 where the 2 supposed to be and 4 where there's supposed to be 21. Yes it is now a force for evil. Gods chosen can only shine lights into this darkness and show forth His glory.

America: Another story of how a prosperous, God-fearing nation can degenerate and decay. We were "The Nation" and there won't be another like we were. We are in the last days.

What a silly statement. Laws that stop us from worshiping God? No law can stop us from worshiping God. Even in death we will worship him. People like you have been saying the same thing about this great country for 100 years; we have lost our greatness. Your a new messenger with an old message.

How are we a force for evil?

What nation is greater than America if we have, according to you, fallen so far? Because if we have fallen, we have fallen below other's. Who are those other's?

 

[Mr.Bride]

Michael Pardo:

Thanks for educating us about your family history and some personal experiences in your life. However, you didn't answer my question! Unless I missed the answer in your extensive response? You did mention Israel in your post. So I will start it off. I think Israel is as great a nation as America is. Now it's your turn.......


What a silly statement. Laws that stop us from worshiping God? No law can stop us from worshiping God. Even in death we will worship him. People like you have been saying the same thing about this great country for 100 years; we have lost our greatness. Your a new messenger with an old message.

How are we a force for evil?

What nation is greater than America if we have, according to you, fallen so far? Because if we have fallen, we have fallen below other's. Who are those other's?

Don't deceive yourself. Just take a trip down history lane. We were who we were because we kept God in our view. Is that being done today? The devil has infiltrated and corrupted almost every good thing. Instead of praying in council meetings, you have a moment of silence. So you won't offend others. Allowing gays to marry. No prayer in schools but place your hand over your heart to recite a pledge of allegiance to the United States. Every morning. But now they wanna take "under God" out of it. Teaching children that we came from monkeys. Indoctrinating them with lies from the start. Question: Who's stopping this foolish, perverseness? It's not perverse to them though but become "modernized". The Bible is out of date to the "powers that be". They don't give a rip about those kind of things.

When great tribulation comes upon this place very soon will you still believe America is great?

What is good about America? That is the question. For every one good thing left there are five or ten bad. That's the truth.

Woe unto them that cal evil good, and good evil...
Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes...
Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumers the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of The Lord of Hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.(Isaiah 20-24emphasized)

 

[tom55]

Mr. Bride:

"Just take a trip down memory lane. We were who we were because we kept God in our view".

I say to you Mr. Bride: So we had God in our view during slavery? The Jim Crow laws? When we were killing the native Americans because we wanted their land? When we put Japanese and Germans in internment camps? When women weren't treated as equally as men? When children were working/dying in factories?

All those things aren't happening now and you suggest we are a worst nation now? You have put forth your views on all the bad in our country. Don't you see the good? Did you read my previous post?

"Instead of praying at city council meetings, you have a moment of silence." "No prayer in schools.....". I ask you Mr. Bride; Who do YOU want to lead prayer at the city council meeting or in schools? A radical Muslim? A member of the Westboro Baptist Church? Someone from the Wicken religion? Do we need to pray out loud or in public for Him to hear us? Doesn't scripture say something about praying and how to do it? (Mathew 6:6) At my kids public school they have prayer meetings before school. If you want prayer DURING school, send your child to a religious school.

The pledge of allegiance was written in 1892, obviously several years after this countries founding, and didn't include "under God" in it at that time. "Under God" was added in 1954. (It was also modified in 1923) If a person wants to say "under God" while reciting the pledge of allegiance, they can. If they don't want to, they don't have to. Heck, they don't have to say it at all. I would be more concerned if our government REQUIRED us to say the pledge. Wouldn't that be more concerning to you?

You are right about recognizing gay marriage. I think it is a totally misguided ruling by our courts. Even though according to the bible some men had many wives I can see no reason to allow gay marriage. It is against all that is natural. They have taken the historical word "marriage" (a religious union between a man and woman) and turned it into a union of two people who love each other. It was a "rite" (religious ceremony) for a long time. Now it is considered a "right", something that can't be denied?

So the title of this thread is; Is America becoming a force for evil in the world? What is your answer? I like how ERIC STAHL just came right out and said what he thought!!

 

[michaelvpardo]

Michael Pardo:

Thanks for educating us about your family history and some personal experiences in your life. However, you didn't answer my question! Unless I missed the answer in your extensive response? You did mention Israel in your post. So I will start it off. I think Israel is as great a nation as America is. Now it's your turn.......

Israel works for me. I'd be content to live out the rest of my life there, but I don't think my wife would enjoy it much. Australia seems like a pretty good place to live too, but I know that they have some history of internal abuses with their aboriginal population. Other than that you don't generally hear much that's bad about the place. Switzerland appears to have a pretty good record, but again the truth of the matter is that I was born in the USA and lived here for all of my 57 years. Its never been a perfect place in my experience, but it certainly isn't the same nation that I grew up in. I've taken to spending some of my free time watching old TV shows aired on channel 19 on my TV provider, same shows that I grew up with. Its not that I'm particularly nostalgic about my youth, but the comedies weren't full of perverse behavior and language (more like subtle suggestiveness than overt lewd, crude, and rude behavior.) The crime dramas and westerns had their share of violence (sometimes some sexual innuendo as with the latter types), but were by no means "graphic" in presenting evil behavior (they had more rigorous censorship back then.)
I remember a kid in my High School stabbed someone with a knife, but I never had to fear looking down the barrel of a gun in some punk's hand between classes (or during them.)
If we had smart phones back then, kids might have been watching Porn on them, but Porn was stuff hidden in brown paper wrappers, or underneath the counters in the magazine stores and the men that purchased such material were generally careful about being seen with it and labeled a pervert.
I remember seeing a feud between a couple of neighbors down the block from me and on one occasion a police response to a fist fight and some threats, but no one was shot over it. I also remember neighbors that were at least a little familiar with each other, cooperative, and helpful at times when the need arose. I've tried to bring that to the few neighbors that I have some familiarity with now, but in my old neighborhood I was never flipped off by someone who cut me off on the road and was angry that I existed. I never experienced (through my parents) a new car being "keyed" or dented by kids who thought it was funny to do something spiteful to people that they'd never even met or disliked for reasons unspoken and never revealed.
I'm not saying that I don't know kind kids or kind adults anymore, but unprovoked anger and violence seems to have been on the increase for as long as I can remember. I can remember when a murder or other violent crime would be a big story in my home town. People would be talking about it all over, but now people get murdered within a mile or two from where I live and it doesn't even make the news.
I can remember when we would say "the pledge of allegiance" in school every morning and not be concerned about being sued or ejected from school for offending some atheist.
This could just be symptomatic of the times that we live in and not some national phenomenon. My perceptions could be way off, but if that were true, there wouldn't be so much evidence of the wrath of God becoming manifest in our society at large. When God gives a people over to their sin and its consequences that's a manifestation of wrath. When people have evil rulers that's a reflection of the nature of the ruled. I can provide scriptural support for these statements if you'd like, but would you believe them? I only ask that, because I don't know you. I'm not suggesting that you don't believe what scripture says, but I've seen more than a few professing Christians who handle the word of God like its just a historical record, or something less than eternal revealed truth (I don't believe that this was always the case either.)
By the way, you don't have to include entire posts when you respond to them; high lite and delete is one of the editor functions that actually works and tends to make the posts a little more readable.
Okay, I've rambled on long enough (I believe that's a sign of age.) 'Nuff said.

 

[tom55]

Thank you Mr. Pardo for your honest and articulate response. I messed up when I included the "entire post" in my response. It wasn't my intent and I apologize.

I like Switzerland. I have been there and it is a pretty country. I don't like their church tax. They voted to ban the construction of new minarets, which seems anti-religious to me. Cost of living in the United States is much lower. We have a military that can protect us, even though in my opinion we shouldn't use our military the way we have been using it. Crime is lower in Switzerland. But, if I could afford it, I would live in Switzerland. Kind of the same with Australia. Church attendance is much lower in both countries than in America. Both your choices were good ones and ones I agree with.

I'm not much younger than you and I always thought crime is higher now than when I was a kid. It is actually much lower now and has been on a steady decline for over 20 years. School violence was at its highest from 1975 to 1999 (peaked in 1993). Even though it seems higher now, it is actually lower then when I attended school. All studies show that a child is safer at school than off campus. It was just announced that teenage pregnancy rates are at their lowest in 73 years. Gonorrhea was at it's peak in the late 70's to early 80's and syphilis peaked in the late 80's early 90's. Both declining since then. Hard to believe pregnancies and STD's are going down when we see all that perverse behavior on TV and such easy access to it on the internet. I turn the channel when I see it and don't let my kids watch it.

I agree with you. The ACLU and Freedom From Religion people have attacked religion every chance they get which makes everyone afraid of being sued. But there are organizations that we can support (financially) that fight them.

Overall, America is the greatest or one of the greatest countries to live in. There is some bad but the good far out weighs the bad. Now I also have rambled on to much....God Bless.

 

[[email protected]]

Michael V Pardo

I say to you RJP:

The only thing I would add to his great statement is that America, unlike other countries that have conquered other nations, has helped those countries rebuild after we have defeated them. BECAUSE WE ARE AN EXPECTIONAL COUNTRY!

Mr. Pardo wrote: "We are an exceptional country."

I wonder if Mr. Pardo knows who coined that term. Where did it come from and how was it used?

In the 1920's, Joseph Stalin then leader of the Soviet Union and the International Communist party, issued a letter to the Communist Party of America. In this letter he rebuked the attitude of American Communists for the attitude they'd adopted of American Exceptionalism. This is the earliest known use of the term.

The idea, the phrase and the usage was originally COMMUNIST and even Joe Stalin knew it was wrong. If one of the most brutal dictators the world has ever known could understand the fallacy of the attitude of American Exceptionalism, why do Christians hold onto it as though it were gospel? What is wrong is wrong!

My entire premise has been to focus on Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I get my political perspective from the gospel, not partisan propagandistic politics.

In the 1960's, two major issues confronted the American people - race and the war in Viet Nam. At that time several large organized Christian groups identified with the fight against racism. Not all of them were black, either. Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., inspired by the gospel and the life of Mahatma Ghandi, led a peaceful revolt against legal and cultural racism in America. Although his accomplishments would later be overthrown by the Supreme Court, they were critical in bringing the issue of individual liberty to the forefront of American politics. Christians who supported this movement were assumed to be bleeding heart liberals.

In those days, the Viet Nam war was opposed by many organized Christian groups. Public demonstrations against Federal foreign policy of aggression and human rights violations in Southeast Asia(*) were often participated in by Bible believing Christians. Christians who supported this movement were assumed to be bleeding heart liberals.

Christians supported these protest movements because for the most part they agreed with the gospel message.

Forward in time to the 1980's when the proliferation of cable TV and satellite broadcasting changed the direction and flavor of the Christian political identity. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson changed the national Christian political attitude with two failed programs. Together they changed the political perspective of Fundamentalist Christians.

One program generally referred to as the Moral Majority was created to entice contributions to overturn Roe v. Wade (abortion), Engel v. Vitale (school prayer) and Murray v. Curlett (school Bible reading). To date the effort has been a dismal failure. Although the political effort failed, contributions kept pouring in due in no little part to the proliferation of satellite programming. What it did accomplish was to swing the self-perception of American Christians toward conservatism.

In 1986, Pat Robertson announced his intention to run for the office of POTUS. This political effort also failed, but not before Republican opportunists managed to merge Christian political interests into their platform. Issues of abortion, prayer and morality continue to be used to garner the Christian vote despite the fact that no elected official has ever raised their little finger to reverse the court decisions. The Christian self-perception as Republican conservative was cemented in the election of George H. Bush in 1989.

To this day, despite the overwhelming evidence of government debauchery, human rights violations abroad and more than twenty wars and shadow wars American Christians continue to view themselves as fanatic patriots of the moral right wing of American politics. Unfortunately there is no longer any such thing as left or right wing politics in America. Neither is there anything approaching a democratic process with regard to Federal elections and policy. The Democrats and Republicans are two heads of the same snake. Effective policy of every election is the same regardless of its outcome. But despite the nagging doubt and fear that all the candidates are the same, Republican and Democratic voters continue to abuse one another as though the whole thing were an NFL championship game. It isn't. American Christians simply don't 'get it'.

"No matter who you vote for the government always wins."
- Mark Twain

"The American people have no idea what is happening to them."
- Pravda

Posts by myself and others are not meant to defame America so much as they are intended to cause Christians to review their political position. What do they believe (politically) and why? Does the fanatic position of 'my country right or wrong' serve Christ in particular or the nation as a whole? At this point in our history I submit that it does neither.

I may also remind the reader of the words of Reinhold Neibuhr, "Christ does not vindicate a race or a nation. It is the sovereignty of God which is vindicated." as well as those of the father of our nation, George Washington.

"The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disegards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven iself hath ordained."
- George Washington April 30, 1789 NYC (dedication of the nation)

You know the condition and the direction of our nation today as well as I. Are we now a godly people or have we rejected the Most High as a nation? Do we fear God or have we rejected Him, murdered our unborn children and seek our own convenience instead?

"treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God"
- 2 Tim 3:4

Does the Bible indicate God will bless America or does it indicate that America is not unlike every other fallen empire in history - subject always to the righteous judgments of the Throne of the Almighty? Read the Bible and learn the truth. Do not bury your head in the sands of partisan politics.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

that's just me, hollering from the choir loft.....
(*) The chant was often heard "Hey, Hey LBJ, how many kids did you kill today" and "Hell no, I won't go (to Viet Nam)."

 

[Andrey son of Lion]

Is the U.S a force for evil - NO.

It is a force of goodness and rightness. And its rockets and bombs fly to make the world more beautiful. :unsure:

 

[michaelvpardo]

Mr. Pardo wrote: "We are an exceptional country."

No I didn't. You quoted someone who responded to one of my previous posts. Countries aren't exceptional, but a person might be.

It is a force of goodness and rightness. And its rockets and bombs fly to make the world more beautiful. :unsure:

Is that supposed to be a joke? God has placed a curse upon those that destroy the earth. I don't know if that guilt falls upon nations or upon economic systems, but nations are made up of peoples and peoples develop economic systems in order to store up wealth or manage its use. Rulers don't rule for long without consent of the governed; rebellion is within our (fallen) nature.

 

[tom55]

Dear rjp34652,

Out of all the things I said about our great country the only response you have is to contend one word I wrote? EXCEPTIONAL

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

marksman,

Thank you for your compliments of our great country. I believe that satan is attacking the religious and morale fiber of this country and his focus is on our politicians/government. I was shocked when President Obama was voted back into office. I understood how he got into office on the first election, however, once the people could see who he really was I honestly didn't think he would be re-elected. God willing we will have big changes in 2016. I don't necessarily mean a republican but a God fearing person who will work for ALL citizens.

Such a person could never run as a Democrat and would be kicking the goads to run as a Republican.

 

[Andrey son of Lion]

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

 

[[email protected]]

Dear rjp34652,

Out of all the things I said about our great country the only response you have is to contend one word I wrote? EXCEPTIONAL

Rather than address every single point, I chose one.

I did that mostly to learn how you'd respond. I pretty much figured that although you wouldn't like my explanation you couldn't deny its veracity. You couldn't deny any of the other statements I made either. I wanted to see if you'd try. You didn't.

I also wanted to find out if you were a thinking person or just another fool who wraps himself in the flag without reckoning what it means in the context of political and historic fact. You are a thinker and a reasonable person, apparently.

So think about this, Tom.

I'm not a kid and I've not lived my life in one corner of the country. I've been out and about and I've learned two or three things.

One is that most Americans are decent people who are selfless to a fault, eager to help someone in need and willing to sacrifice themselves for the common good.
Two is that most of these same folks trust those they've elected to behave in the best interests of their community, state and nation.

"Two things people should never be allowed to see being made is sausage and laws."
- Otto Von Bismarck

My third point is that many Christians aren't well educated in ideology, Christian mythology(1), national history or politics. I'm picking on Christians here because they ought to hold themselves to a higher standard than the rest of the country. Unfortunately the reason we haven't is because Christian leadership has corrupted itself.(2) Want proof? Talk to other Christians about the topics you as a reader examine and discuss on these pages. Do they even know what you're talking about? I suspect that the main reason most of us are gathered here is for intellectual stimulation we don't get elsewhere. I could be wrong on this. Correct me if I am.

The problem we are faced with today is that those we've trusted in government have betrayed us.

I personally agree with those who openly state that they love this country but hate this government. The only ones who really seem to love the government are those with a vested interest in obtaining its financial benefits for their personal gain. It has been truly said that America is up for sale. Attend ANY political rally or meeting as I have done and sooner or later you'll hear this echo.

My purpose in writing the things I wrote was to educate Tom as well as the readership as to the real nature of the history of America. It is no shining light in the world today or in the past. If a light is sought, then the cross of Christ Jesus is that which will never disappoint. To worship America, to assume that all is right and proper and decent, to assume that it has always been that way and always will be so is to invite cultural, political and spiritual disaster. "My country right or wrong" does not appear in the pages of Holy Writ.

Some would say we have openly invited disaster by insulting and rejecting the only hope this nation (or any other) really has - Almighty God.

Pride goes before a fall, someone once said. If true then America has puffed itself up so much that it can no longer see where it's walking. At this point in our history stumbling is inevitable.

Will Christians be there to help when it happens or will we simply be part of the wreck? We need to expose and educate ourselves to political and religious reality for in that will we be able to once again present the gospel to a dying nation and a wayward people. We can't use fantastic ideas about politics to correct those who need the truth. We have not arrived at a utopian society in America, not by a long shot.

We need to have a firm appreciation of what is wrong before we can begin to work at fixing it right. No one will seek a doctor until they are convinced they are sick.

And this nation is sick.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft....

(1) Christian mythology does not in any sense refer to scripture as far as I'm concerned.
IMO, examples of Christian mythology might be appearances of the Virgin Mary, bleeding statues, the miracles of St. Francis, images of Christ in clouds, angelic visitations and eschatological literature. True or not they must be accepted or rejected at face value as far as Christians are concerned.

(2)In the 1980's, TV preachers collectively ruined the respect the secular world had for the traditional evangelistic message. False gospels were promoted for the purpose of financial gain and personal glorification. Mass media destroyed the gospel. The reorganization of protestant denominations from disciples of Christ into religious franchises became an accepted formula by legitimate leadership. The Word of God is an embarrassment to them and the name of Jesus Christ is anathema.

 

[DaDad]

To all,

What nation is promised an eternal recognition of gratitude?

Psalms 45
17 I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever and ever.


And what nation is a reproach and abomination before GOD?

Ezekiel 38
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


One is Russia, and the other is the United States of America. Guess which is which.


With Best Regards,
DD

 

[tom55]

Rather than address every single point, I chose one.

(when you read this don't take it as me being mad, just direct)

You didn't address ONE point of mine, you addressed ONE word....and you failed at that.



I did that mostly to learn how you'd respond. I pretty much figured that although you wouldn't like my explanation you couldn't deny its veracity. You couldn't deny any of the other statements I made either. I wanted to see if you'd try. You didn't.

I can deny the statement that you made about Stalin. He was not the first to use the word "exceptional" about America. Alexis Tocquevil did in 1831.



I also wanted to find out if you were a thinking person or just another fool who wraps himself in the flag without reckoning what it means in the context of political and historic fact. You are a thinker and a reasonable person, apparently.

I am a student of history and I know the bad history of this great country. As stated before our good far outweighs our bad. We are a great country and you haven't and can't name a country greater than ours. Because if you could have, you would have.



I suspect that the main reason most of us are gathered here is for intellectual stimulation we don't get elsewhere. I could be wrong on this. Correct me if I am.

Finally, we agree on something. I believe you are right! :) But just because everyone doesn't seek out this stimulation doesn't mean they are any less religious than you or I.





I personally agree with those who openly state that they love this country but hate this government.

Our government is made of laws, not politicians. Our Constitution is what makes America great.....if our politicians would follow it and hold accountable in court those who don't.



My purpose in writing the things I wrote was to educate Tom as well as the readership as to the real nature of the history of America. It is no shining light in the world today or in the past. If a light is sought, then the cross of Christ Jesus is that which will never disappoint. To worship America, to assume that all is right and proper and decent, to assume that it has always been that way and always will be so is to invite cultural, political and spiritual disaster. "My country right or wrong" does not appear in the pages of Holy Writ.

You have failed to educate me on anything except that it seems to me you don't like America and can not name a country that is greater. You are failing to separate the discussion of the greatness of a country from the greatness of our Christ. One can love their country and love Him. Just because I love you does that mean I can't love my spouse? They are two separate things and two different kinds of love. The title of this discussion is: Is America becoming a force for evil in the world? I have contended that America is a force for good in this world. Even though it has done some bad.



Some would say we have openly invited disaster by insulting and rejecting the only hope this nation (or any other) really has - Almighty God.

"SOME" would say the opposite. So who is right?



Pride goes before a fall, someone once said. If true then America has puffed itself up so much that it can no longer see where it's walking. At this point in our history stumbling is inevitable.

"Pride goes before fall is not from someone...it is almost an exact quote from the bible. It seems you are saying since Americans take pride in who they are then America will fall? If you feel you are being prophetic then spare me. Every nation falls eventually. Are you proud of who you are? Then you will fall. So if you take no pride in yourself, you will never fall?



We have not arrived at a utopian society in America, not by a long shot.

We (man) will never have utopia until we are in heaven. If you, RJP, are looking for perfection in man or any country you will never find it. Therefor we must grade ourselves on a bell curve. Upon grading all the countries of the world on a bell curve America would be considered exceptional = superior, unusually excellent.




We need to have a firm appreciation of what is wrong before we can begin to work at fixing it right. No one will seek a doctor until they are convinced they are sick. And this nation is sick.

RJP, If you think our nation is sick now then the state of our nation seems to have been a lot worse (sick) in the past. (Read my previous post to Mr. Pride) Historically speaking we had a fever not to many years ago and now we are getting better. I thank God that He has helped America see the errors of her ways and has helped us to become an exceptional country. We were very sick and have become better.

You, RJP, seem to take great pride in what you have to say. You say what you believe with conviction and I like that! But you have not named a country that is greater than America. It doesn't mean you think that country is a utopian society. It just means, based on a curve, it is greater than most other countries. What is your country of choice? I look forward to your answer.

 

[JPPT1974]

First off I love the United States of America. As really despite being born in Vietnam and adopted, but really consider myself an American all the way! But really God created all nations and the world. But due to sin, the world is ruined due to famine, poverty, wars, Communism, etc. You can only hope and pray that as the world, we can go back to the Lord and really accept Him and that He will free us from bondage and sin. Will leave it at that since a lot of the posters are from different countries.