In an odd dither this morning

[stunnedbygrace]

Lol. If you have been around a P/A in any in-depth way, you can easily spot it in others and the effects in their victims.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Share a link too your store.

Mmm...no link, just a facebook page.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mmm...no link, just a facebook page.

Send it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Send it.

Don't know how! Lol. But I can try.

 

[Waiting on him]

Don't know how! Lol. But I can try.

VIJ and I would love to see it.

 

[Giuliano]

She certainly does undermine me. She throws me under the bus every chance she gets. Its very difficult. She comes into my shop and does it in front of customers. She destroys my displays and any visual merchandising I do. She insists it is because it wasn't right or good enough or perfect enough.

I had quite a row with her 3 days ago when I insisted I was taking a big table down and redoing the front at the door. I told her I wanted it to be left alone because I liked it and believed it was good. I said I thought it looked so good that I wouldn't be surprised if someone bought the entire arrangement. She kept sneaking in changes and I kept switching it back. She said it was "just okay". I told her to stop and that I needed to make some sales and unless She was going to pay the rent, she needed to leave it be. She still kept changing it and junking it up until I lost my patience and she left offended.

Today, three days later, not only did the entire display sell (a console table I had painted, a channel back chair, a footstool, a mirror I had gold leafed) but they sold to one person, $700. AND, two different women returned who had admired the arrangement, very upset that it had sold because they'd both decided they wanted the items!

She is not pleased. It is this odd thing where she feels I outshone her. But really, I didn't. I just have seen what women like and have learned what appeals to them visually and have learned that trying to stuff too much in does not work for getting sales.

And the most puzzling thing to me is that she is very good with color and design and balance but makes it look atrocious, as if she is purposely doing it to try to make me fail...very bizarre.

I know she will be completely awful to me for days now and will be very insistent in not giving me any autonomy at all in my shop. I know it will be rough. Not looking forward to it.

And yes, it was thinking about her that made me see I do not have love for others.

I think you were right to lose your patience. She wouldn't have stopped otherwise. My rule is first try nice; and if that doesn't work, get firm, and if that fails, express displeasure. It's not healthy to have too much patience when people are actively making you miserable. They know it too.

Is it possible she does this to get attention? We all know how children can misbehave to get attention? Generally kids will try being nice to get attention; and if that fails, they misbehave. Adults can do it too.

If you run the business and she has no legal claim on it, maybe you could tell her outright you don't want her there since it leads to disagreements and hurt feelings. You'd prefer to see her when you visit. If her real intention is to get you to visit her more, she might fall for that. I'm guessing of course, but maybe she wants something positive (probably attention) from you but isn't telling you.

I can say some crazy things at times -- or things that sound crazy. I might tell her, "Look, I'd like to visit you tomorrow; but I can't have you coming in here throwing the shop into chaos. Don't make me call the cops on you, Mom. You know I don't want to do that." She might huff and puff; but sometimes strong words like that sets limits for people and stop trying to run over you. They respect you more, treat you better and things start to improve. I'd bet she feels guilty for what she's doing -- she may be glad secretly when you make her stop it.

I found the details about the displays interesting. A good business person should care about customers. Providing things they like can be a form of love to me. You study people to see what will please them.

 

[Waiting on him]

I think you were right to lose your patience. She wouldn't have stopped otherwise. My rule is first try nice; and if that doesn't work, get firm, and if that fails, express displeasure. It's not healthy to have too much patience when people are actively making you miserable. They know it too.

Is it possible she does this to get attention? We all know how children can misbehave to get attention? Generally kids will try being nice to get attention; and if that fails, they misbehave. Adults can do it too.

If you run the business and she has no legal claim on it, maybe you could tell her outright you don't want her there since it leads to disagreements and hurt feelings. You'd prefer to see her when you visit. If her real intention is to get you to visit her more, she might fall for that. I'm guessing of course, but maybe she wants something positive (probably attention) from you but isn't telling you.

I can say some crazy things at times -- or things that sound crazy. I might tell her, "Look, I'd like to visit you tomorrow; but I can't have you coming in here throwing the shop into chaos. Don't make me call the cops on you, Mom. You know I don't want to do that." She might huff and puff; but sometimes strong words like that sets limits for people and stop trying to run over you. They respect you more, treat you better and things start to improve. I'd bet she feels guilty for what she's doing -- she may be glad secretly when you make her stop it.

I found the details about the displays interesting. A good business person should care about customers. Providing things they like can be a form of love to me. You study people to see what will please them.

Unfortunately you have to teach people how to treat you. There are some really good books out there on boundaries.

 

[Waiting on him]

Love corrects.

 

[Helen]

Constant smooth seas don’t make skilled sailors.

:) A little more refined than just saying..." No guts, no glory! "

 

[stunnedbygrace]

VIJ and I would love to see it.

Couldn't figure out how to do it, sorry. Don't know if you could find it by searching on Facebook, The Romantic Cottage...

 

[Giuliano]

Unfortunately you have to teach people how to treat you. There are some really good books out there on boundaries.

It's a valuable thing though if you can do it since they can use what they learned from you in their other relationships. They might learn they get better responses from others by being considerate. If you let people run over you too much, odds are they're doing that to other people too.

There are people who are so miserable if you do visit them, you don't want to return. People visiting them tolerate them -- and that leads them to think their methods are effective; but they aren't effective if no one wants to visit them again.

 

[Helen]

I'm thinking here...I don't think loving others is an obedience I can learn to do...i think the obedience He wants from me is the obedience of trust.

Totally agree...
And just like Paul said- " reckon yourself dead to sin..."
I believe that we first start doing the faith thing..."acting as if it is done, just because He says , it is done, not because we 'feel like" it is.

We take the first step...and He jumps to meet us...

We walk by faith, not by feels like. :)

Hugs and blessings...H

 

[Waiting on him]

It's a valuable thing though if you can do it since they can use what they learned from you in their other relationships. They might learn they get better responses from others by being considerate. If you let people run over you too much, odds are they're doing that to other people too.

There are people who are so miserable if you do visit them, you don't want to return. People visiting them tolerate them -- and that leads them to think their methods are effective; but they aren't effective if no one wants to visit them again.

Agreed, it takes a lot of courage to learn to set healthy boundaries.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Maybe...

The Romantic Cottage

 

[Waiting on him]

Maybe...

The Romantic Cottage

Bingo, reminds me of when I was young, a log house behind my mother and father’s home built by my great great grandfather full of antiques trapped in time. Set locked for about 50 years.

 

[Giuliano]

Agreed, it takes a lot of courage to learn to set healthy boundaries.

It can pay off in the end though and may even help others.

I tend to be very careful around some people -- the type that likes to make others feel guilty -- they seem to enjoy my doing something they can manipulate me about. I know if I do something I feel bad about (the way stunnedbygrace felt bad), I'm opening myself up to be manipulated. I know I may feel guilty too later, and it's just not worth it. These are people I have given up on for the most part -- I feel as if nothing I do really gets through anyway, so I try to be polite and let it go at that.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's a valuable thing though if you can do it since they can use what they learned from you in their other relationships. They might learn they get better respo

I've tried to talk very reasonably with her and call her out on her strange manipulations. It makes her feel I am attacking her. She has a problem with needing to be thought of as perfect by everyone.

Then there's this odd...competition thing. Everything is a game to win with her. Everything is a battle for control. It is very exhausting. Its 24/7. She needs to always be in a battle of wills.

And there's this too: talking reasonably with her and uncovering her manipulations just makes her become more clever and innovative in attempting to hide and obfuscate what she is doing. She gets such a mess going that it would be impossible to ever unravel it. She has twisted it up so bad that even she herself can't see what she is doing.

She's not a believer. But I've even seen believers play disgusting P/A games of trying to make another look like a monster. They go on a campaign to try and utterly destroy the reputation of the person who sees the truth of their motivations and states it. They want to make that person so miserable that they never, ever dare to speak any truth again that might make them look less than perfect. They will do anything to disrepute the person and will find every little opening to try to make them appear bad in front of others. They are being very brutal but it's a brutality that's hidden to others.

What on earth Do you do with someone like that? You feel sometimes, great pity for them and at other times, fury, because they are relentless in their quest to destroy their "opponent." And it makes no difference if the opponent has no desire to do battle. They will still war and force the other into war.

 

[Giuliano]

I've tried to talk very reasonably with her and call her out on her strange manipulations. It makes her feel I am attacking her. She has a problem with needing to be thought of as perfect by everyone.

I wouldn't buy it when she tries to divert reasonable discussions by claiming it makes her feel attacked. This seems like another ploy to silence you. I also doubt if she believes she's perfect herself --I mean, really now, who believes he's perfect? It looks like another ploy to me, demanding that you pretend she's perfect.

Then there's this odd...competition thing. Everything is a game to win with her. Everything is a battle for control. It is very exhausting. Its 24/7. She needs to always be in a battle of wills.

More evidence to support my theory that her claim you make her uncomfortable is a ploy to shut you down.

And there's this too: talking reasonably with her and uncovering her manipulations just makes her become more clever and innovative in attempting to hide and obfuscate what she is doing. She gets such a mess going that it would be impossible to ever unravel it. She has twisted it up so bad that even she herself can't see what she is doing.

It may be time to throw your hands up in the air and stop trying to unravel what she's doing. Do your best to reduce whatever she says to zero. Don't act on it. Don't repeat anything she says about others; and if someone runs to you saying she said something about you, laugh and say, "She says a lot of things. I ignore them."

She's not a believer. But I've even seen believers play disgusting P/A games of trying to make another look like a monster. They go on a campaign to try and utterly destroy the reputation of the person who sees the truth of their motivations and states it. They want to make that person so miserable that they never, ever dare to speak any truth again that might make them look less than perfect. They will do anything to disrepute the person and will find every little opening to try to make them appear bad in front of others. They are being very brutal but it's a brutality that's hidden to others.

What on earth Do you do with someone like that? You feel sometimes, great pity for them and at other times, fury, because they are relentless in their quest to destroy their "opponent." And it makes no difference if the opponent has no desire to do battle. They will still war and force the other into war.

I think I'd do my best to see as little of her as possible. I don't know if I'd even tell her why since that could spark another argument.

I'm entering a topic now that may be touchy since the book of Acts seems to portray Abraham as waiting for his father to die before he left him to move west; but Genesis, if you calculate the years, shows he left his father and most of his family behind. This seems odd perhaps, implying that Abraham didn't show his father "honor." Some parents can "tear up their parent cards." Not much is said in the Bible about Abraham's father Terah; but tradition says he made idols for a living. The way I see it is that Abraham left his earthly father behind and God became his Father. I remember Ruth too who left her family to go with Naomi. She got "adopted" into Israel and her pagan earthly family got left behind. While I do believe in honoring our parents as a general rule, I also think there are some exceptions.

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

I don't know enough about the situation and I certainly don't have the "right" to tell you what to do; but I can tell you that I could not and would not condemn you if you limited the time you spent with her or even if you stopped seeing her altogether. You have other people in your life to consider. You owe more to them since what you do for them bears better fruit. If your mother gets you depressed or in a foul mood, it could affect them too.

How should we love ourselves? My advice is to seek happiness and mental health for yourself so you are in good shape to relate to other people. Allowing any one person to affect you negatively damages you and potentially damages the other people you have relationships with. You would not want to do that to someone else -- so you're not obliged to let someone else do it to you.

I wonder if there is any way to get through to her? The older people get, it seems the harder it is to get them to change. She may learn if you were to start off by telling her not to show up at your shop. It's optional if you want to explain why. There are some people I refuse to give explanations to since I know it would just something else to argue about. So I opt for something neutral, "I don't want to argue about it -- that's just the way it is." If they throw a tantrum, I might say something like, "That's not going to change my mind."

Something definitely is backwards, isn't it? I think of mothers as being supportive and understanding. It's almost as if she expects you to take the role of mother while she behaves like a kid.

If you do take action, don't allow anything to change your mind. If you change your mind, it sends the message that you can be worn down if she attacks enough. There are times when I'm under stress that I realize I might say or do something I'll regret later, so I say and do nothing at the time, waiting to calm down. I feel free with friends to change my mind; but with manipulative people, I try my hardest never to change my mind. It sends them the wrong signal.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thanks giuliano. Really. It has helped to talk with you. I currently live with her and leaving is not an option yet. I have begun to find ways to deal with it, but it's difficult. I have asked God to give me a way to a place of my own where I can have some peace, or not, if it's His plan for me to stay here. I'm okay with being where He wants me. And He somehow...often lifts me above it to where it isnt...a thing I take too seriously. She can be no other way. I truly think there really is no emotional health apart from Him. He is the one who makes soundness in the bones.

Anyway, thanks again for talking with me. You're a pretty good counselor. :)

 

[Waiting on him]

Thanks giuliano. Really. It has helped to talk with you. I currently live with her and leaving is not an option yet. I have begun to find ways to deal with it, but it's difficult. I have asked God to give me a way to a place of my own where I can have some peace, or not, if it's His plan for me to stay here. I'm okay with being where He wants me. And He somehow...often lifts me above it to where it isnt...a thing I take too seriously. She can be no other way. I truly think there really is no emotional health apart from Him. He is the one who makes soundness in the bones.

Anyway, thanks again for talking with me. You're a pretty good counselor. :)

Cleave too you’re husband!