If We Protestants Truly Hated Catholics...

[Marymog]

Funny. You have already decided, in direct contradiction to history, that the RCC has always remained faithful, because 'the gates of hell did not prevail'. Yet you refuse to allow that same promise of our Saviour to apply to anyone else...and there were a great many 'elses' who had accepted the gospel...'elses' who your church despised and sought to wipe out, all 'in the name of Christ'.

Dear brakelite,

You made the statement in post #601: There has always been someone...whether individuals or communities...who have remained faithful to Him.

How do you know it wasn't the Catholic 'community' that remained faithful to Him? It seems you already know who remained faithful since you said 'there has always been someone....whether individuals or communities...that have remained faithful'. How did you determine this???

I ask you ONCE AGAIN:

How do we decide who "remained faithful to Him"??? Who decides this???

MARY

 

[Marymog]

The question is difficult to answer without being offensive. Nevertheless, the papacy is the union of the Catholic church and the secular state, where the church calls the shots and the state enforces them. This union could not exist while the state was still controlled by the Caesars. In 538, the Bishop of Rome stepped forward to take the scepter of the Caesars and became the leader of the barbarian nations at their behest, with the Francs the most prominent enforcer of papal will. The Francs evolved into the nation of France and continued to support the papacy until the time of Napoleon.

By definition, the "Catholic church" cannot but predate the papacy - but it was (and continues to be) so unlike the church of the Bible that it cannot be the church that dates back to the time of Christ. The warnings of Jesus and others that we should step correct lest we be overcome by Satan are proliferate. Paul warned that a great apostasy would take place after his death. Peter warned for the church to be sober, watchful, and diligent. John's warning that church members "keep yourselves from idols" was at that time totally unnecessary to such a pure, devout, Biblically based church, but hindsight is crystal clear on why he gave such a warning: all these God-fearing men understood what was soon to creep into the church of Jesus Christ, and though apostasy gradually crept into the church ever so slightly but steadily, it seems the defining moment came when Constantine legalized Christianity and threw open the floodgates to it. The church of Jesus Christ ceased to be such and the Catholic church stood in its place. The great "falling away" apostasy came to pass, while the church of Jesus Christ fled into the wilderness, as predicted she would by John the Revelator.

Fascinating......;)

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

So, ONCE AGAIN, why is your interpretation right and anyone else wrong?

You could get your answers from John Wycliffe's writings, who was actually a Catholic, and exposed the fallacies of the CC a long time ago, and paid for it with his life.

And it is not "my church" but all of Protestantism and all evangelical and fundamental churches who reject the teachings of the RCC. So you have to ask yourself why a large segment of Christianity believes that the Catholic Church has "another gospel".

And if you were to speak with the apostle Peter personally (who was never the bishop of Rome), he would tell you the same thing. He had some harsh words against false teachers.

 

[bbyrd009]

the truth usually is to those who are not aware of it i guess

How do we decide who "remained faithful to Him"??? Who decides this???

how do you have a conversation on the merits of emancipation with a slave owner, Mary? You are on the other side of a fence here, and you are not going to accept what Christians deem truth wadr, so why are you even asking? You decide, along with others in your nation and culture, just like the Bible says. You, personally, unless and until you decide to capitulate and follow a king, like you have done.

So wadr you are not even qualified to have an opinion, send us your king and we will debate with him if you like. I mean no offense but you have capitulated, right? You perceive the pope to be different than you somehow, isn't that correct?

So another valid answer here is "no one," ok, no one decides who else might be being faithful or not; it's just that your king has usurped this authority and you now believe that that is his right, or role, correct? On that last part at least? That is the answer you believe to be true, the one you would like to hear, right, "the pope."

wadr the only way adherents get there is ignorance of Scripture, not diff interpretations of It.

 

[Marymog]

You could get your answers from John Wycliffe's writings, who was actually a Catholic, and exposed the fallacies of the CC a long time ago, and paid for it with his life.

And it is not "my church" but all of Protestantism and all evangelical and fundamental churches who reject the teachings of the RCC. So you have to ask yourself why a large segment of Christianity believes that the Catholic Church has "another gospel".

And if you were to speak with the apostle Peter personally (who was never the bishop of Rome), he would tell you the same thing. He had some harsh words against false teachers.

Enoch,

Protestants and evangelicals and fundamentalist all reject each others teachings in one form or another. Some of their teachings AGREE with the RCC. Which brings us full circle:

Why is your interpretation right and anyone else wrong?

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

Why is your interpretation right and anyone else wrong?

The fact is that OUR INTERPRETATION (meaning that of all Christians who believe in salvation by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING) lines up with Scripture. All true Protestants, evangelicals, and fundamentalists agree on this (regardless of any other disagreements).

In this respect we all can agree with the Five Solas of the Reformation (which were also attacked by the Catholic Church). Here are the Five Solas and if your reject them, then your interpretation and that of your church is false.

The Five Solas are:

1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/the-five-solas-of-the-protestant-reformation.html

 

[Marymog]

The fact is that OUR INTERPRETATION (meaning that of all Christians who believe in salvation by grace through faith PLUS NOTHING) lines up with Scripture. All true Protestants, evangelicals, and fundamentalists agree on this (regardless of any other disagreements).

In this respect we all can agree with the Five Solas of the Reformation (which were also attacked by the Catholic Church). Here are the Five Solas and if your reject them, then your interpretation and that of your church is false.

The Five Solas are:

1. Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.
2. Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
3. Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
4. Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
5. Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/the-five-solas-of-the-protestant-reformation.html

I just want to make sure I am understanding you before I continue. Any Church or person that calls themselves "Christian", that doesn't believe in the 5 Solas, are not True Christians??

Mary

 

[Enoch111]

I just want to make sure I am understanding you before I continue. Any Church or person that calls themselves "Christian", that doesn't believe in the 5 Solas, are not True Christians??

Mary

You got it.

 

[Marymog]

You got it.

Thank you.

Where did you find that in Scripture? I can't find it.

Do you have a list of Churches (denominations) that practice all five?

Starting with sola scriptura: If the Bible alone is our highest authority then whose interpretation of that Bible do we believe? Yours? RCC? Lutherans? Mormons? Muslims?

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

Where did you find that in Scripture? I can't find it.

don't worry; even if you did, she would just barge on and not acknowledge it anyway
keep squirming, Mary

 

[Marymog]

don't worry; even if you did, she would just barge on and not acknowledge it anyway
keep squirming, Mary

I agree. I would not acknowledge anything he finds in scripture. For we are to believe in scripture alone not man alone. The bible is my highest authority, not Enoch. Right? ;)

Mary

 

[bbyrd009]

I agree. I would not acknowledge anything he finds in scripture. For we are to believe in scripture alone not man alone. The bible is my highest authority, not Enoch. Right? ;)

Mary

well, you made the point at least.
wadr you seem to be contradicting yourself too much for me to give any kind of reply, sorry. At least at the moment; i'm tired. might make more sense to me in the am

 

[Enoch111]

Where did you find that in Scripture? I can't find it.

People don't find WHAT THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR. That's called self delusion.

 

[bbyrd009]

you have a Quote or no

 

[brakelite]

Dear brakelite,

You made the statement in post #601: There has always been someone...whether individuals or communities...who have remained faithful to Him.

How do you know it wasn't the Catholic 'community' that remained faithful to Him? It seems you already know who remained faithful since you said 'there has always been someone....whether individuals or communities...that have remained faithful'. How did you determine this???

I ask you ONCE AGAIN:

How do we decide who "remained faithful to Him"??? Who decides this???

MARY

Actually, that is easy to answer. Who was it that was doing the persecuting? Who was Satan's prime tool in destroying Christianity throughout the dark ages? Hint. It wasn't Islam.

 

[Phoneman777]

Please identify this 'church of the bible' that stands in opposition to the Catholic Church in 100 AD , 200 AD and 300 AD....

Pax!

Philip James, everybody likes a "multiple choice" quiz so here's one for you:

If the "remnant" - last piece - of carpet on the bolt of carpet is always identical to the first piece that came off in the beginning, then it stands to reason that the "remnant church" - church that exists when Jesus appears comes back - will be identical to the church that began to exist in Jesus' day.

So, if the "remnant church" is described as those who "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ", the church that existed in Jesus' day will obviously have also:

a) kept the commandments of Baal and had the testimony of Jezebel.
b) kept the commandments of the Georgia Guidestones and had the testimony of Lucifer.
c) kept the commandments of God and had the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Phoneman777]

This is a moronic and linguistically-bankrupt statement.

You keep making this asinine claim but so far, have utterly FAILED to provide any etymology to substantiate it. WHO told you that "Papacy" meant "union of Church and state". More importantly - WHY didn't you do your fact-checking - BEFORE posting this idiotic claim??

Your ignorant posts are becoming increasingly embarrassing . . .

And again - there seems to be an education breakdown here. The ONLY thing fascinating about your first comment above in RED is that it is NOT the most stupid thing you've said . . .

First of all - your claim that the Popes consider themselves "Kings" of "Heaven, earth and Purgatory" came out of your warped little mind and nowhere else. this is a fallacy that YOU hatched - not the Popes.

As to your 2nd comment in RED - you need to provide documented proof that "Papacy" means "union of Church and State". If you can't do that - then your desperate little lies appear ALL the more pathetic . . .

A little advice: DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

The papacy is 'the union of the catholic church and the secular state".
When Napoleon sent Berthier to arrest the pope in 1798, Napoleon declared the papacy dead, not the Catholic church, which continued to exist to the detriment of the human race.

Do you understand this, you poor pathetic mass of uncontrolled gushing emotionalism?

The Catholic church alone is NOT the papacy - the papacy is "the union of the Catholic church and the secular state".

 

[Phoneman777]

You could get your answers from John Wycliffe's writings, who was actually a Catholic, and exposed the fallacies of the CC a long time ago, and paid for it with his life.

And it is not "my church" but all of Protestantism and all evangelical and fundamental churches who reject the teachings of the RCC. So you have to ask yourself why a large segment of Christianity believes that the Catholic Church has "another gospel".

And if you were to speak with the apostle Peter personally (who was never the bishop of Rome), he would tell you the same thing. He had some harsh words against false teachers.

Actually, though he was hunted by the papacy, and narrowly escaped with his life on more than one occasion, Wycliffe lived to a ripe old age. Later, his bones were dug up and burned and his "soul" was pronounced forever "damned to the pits of hell", as if such Biblically ignorant Catholic prelates would ever possess such authority.

 

[Philip James]

kept the commandments of God and had the testimony of Jesus Christ

And history shows this to be the Catholic Church... You have yet to even attempt to show that it was otherwise...

Some of its bishops included Clement, Polycarp, Ignatus, Cyprian to name just a few... Do you acknowledge these as bishops and heroes of the Faith?

Pax!

 

[Enoch111]

Actually, though he was hunted by the papacy, and narrowly escaped with his life on more than one occasion, Wycliffe lived to a ripe old age. Later, his bones were dug up and burned and his "soul" was pronounced forever "damned to the pits of hell", as if such Biblically ignorant Catholic prelates would ever possess such authority.

"Though John Wycliffe was not physically martyred for his faith, the desecration of his grave is clear evidence that the RCC considered him a heretic who deserved a “martyr’s damnation”."
https://www.berithbpc.com/index.php...urch-history/453-martyrs-of-the-reformation-i