I wonder where this might lead...

[Helen]

Here's some more pics from inside St Paul's cathedral...which was Church of England (Anglican/Episcopalian) but is now masonic/Luciferian, and an image to the beast.

I am slapping myself sideways here!!!! wow!

 

[brakelite]

The Vatican has the signature of their boss in the ceiling of one of their prime buildings, in this case I think the Vatican museum in the form of the Papal crest...note the keys to the kingdom and the triple crown which designates the Pope as the king of heaven, hell, and the earth.

 

[Jay Ross]

You do not tell me.

But here you tell all and quote the same proof against your own error that you have said "Christ's permanent return to the earth." Even when you show yourself in error, you do not believe it.

ScottA when you start quoting my posts accurately. then I might just begin to listen to your argument, but since you cannot do that, then how do I know that we are even on the same page concerning any discussion. It seems that your mode of responding to post is to claim that a person is in error according to you and then to use obscure scripture to support your claim even though it does not pertain to the thrust of what has been previously posted.

You need to go and get a life and stop being a serial pest.

 

[bbyrd009]

^satan's dialectic--do you even know the other way to talk, bro?

...

sorry, what?
Satan's Dialectic, can you stop speaking in it or no?

 

[bbyrd009]

so, what is "satan's dialectic?"

seems like a Christian should know this, yeh?

 

[bbyrd009]

ScottA when you start quoting my posts accurately. then I might just begin to listen to your argument, but since you cannot do that, then how do I know that we are even on the same page concerning any discussion. It seems that your mode of responding to post is to claim that a person is in error according to you and then to use obscure scripture to support your claim even though it does not pertain to the thrust of what has been previously posted.

You need to go and get a life and stop being a serial pest.

sing it with me one time
Everybody knows

 

[bbyrd009]

"We're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!"
lol

 

[ScottA]

ScottA when you start quoting my posts accurately. then I might just begin to listen to your argument, but since you cannot do that, then how do I know that we are even on the same page concerning any discussion. It seems that your mode of responding to post is to claim that a person is in error according to you and then to use obscure scripture to support your claim even though it does not pertain to the thrust of what has been previously posted.

You need to go and get a life and stop being a serial pest.

A quote is a quote and easily verified. That's not the problem. The problem is that you are not tracking with your own posts. Here is what happened:

I quoted you saying that Jesus would "permanently return to the earth." > That is not correct. > I corrected you. > Now you are lost and confused, and your response is to blame me.​

...I recommend you go back and see the error of your claim of Jesus permanently returning to the earth (based on the scriptures that I gave you)...and then perhaps we can discuss the actual truth of Jesus' return. Are you getting this?

 

[Giuliano]

I would define mysticism as man's attempts to experience what mystics call a "mystical union" or "ecstatic union" with God using some form of "spiritual disciplines" or practices NOT taught in the Bible.

I think there were schools for prophets in the Old Testament?

If these practices were a way to experience union with God, the apostles would have practiced and taught these spiritual disciplines to the early church, but we see no evidence of this in the Bible. What IS taught in the Bible is the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I'll address this in a minute.

I'm not sure what we call Christianity was what Jesus came to establish. Remember how quickly Israel fell into rebellion? I see Christianity also falling into darkness rather quickly. Remember Jesus saying the night was coming when no man could work?

Paul uses the term "mystery" to describe the union of Christ and the Church, but this is seen as a "mystical" experience by mystics. I see these as being very different. Our union with Jesus Christ is a mystery just as a husband and wife becoming one flesh is a mystery, but we do not enter a mystical union with Him whereby we are melded into Him and lose our distinction as humans. IOW, we don't become Jesus Christ or God.

The Jews had their mysteries. If Paul studied with Gamaliel, he would have know about some of them. John also seems to have known about some. Neither get too explicit when it comes to certain subjects; and people who read them can often get misled. Peter also knew something of them. He wrote:

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The "disciplines" used by mystics include practices such as contemplative prayer (also called breath prayers or centering prayer) in which the person chants a word or short phrase over and over, which is similar to chanting in Eastern meditation. Sadly, breath prayers are taught by Rick Warren in A Purpose-Driven Life. In this book Warren also extensively quotes from the so-called Christian mystics.

I see nothing wrong with it. I'd recommend chanting "Amen" for a while with the intention of God's Will being done in all three heavens and the earth. The Lord's Prayer is also good if you do it slowly focusing on the meaning of each phrase. Many people pray it without thinking.

Like you, I've gotten the creeps in some churches. The devil is always trying to counterfeit the move of the Holy Spirit! So, not all that you see in churches is a genuine move of the HOLY Spirit. It could be a move of another kind of spirit. This is why we need spiritual discernment.

Having said this, it's important not to throw out the baby with bathwater. I do believe that the Holy Spirit still moves in powerful ways in the Church (meaning believers) through the spiritual gifts, which I strongly believe did NOT cease with the apostles as cessationism teaches. That's a whole other can of worms for a different thread. But I believe that cessationism has left a vacuum in the Church which has been filled with mystical beliefs and practices because the power of Holy Spirit has been quenched. So, people are desiring to see God's power, so they seek it through mystical experiences, but I believe that what they find is counterfeit power.

Christianity came to depend almost entirely on two methods of communicating the Spirit to others: Laying on of hands and prayer. Neither one is a guarantee of purity for the seeker of truth. While Catholic bishops claim to be the successors of the Apostles, history shows they lost the abilities of the Apostles. As I said elsewhere recently, I would be afraid to let some priests and bishops lay hands on me, and I'd be equally afraid to let some Pentecostals. I'm not sure what "spirit" they'd be trying to pass on to me. Prayer? People don't seem to know where they should draw the line with what they ask for. If I covet my neighbor's house, I doubt God is going to be hearing me if I pray for Him to give it to me. That's an obvious example, but many people "pray against" other people as if they don't have the right to free will. If I prayed to try to get God to force you to agree with me, that would be black magic. I don't have the right to ask for that.

I certainly would NOT believe such a vision if the "Father" and "Jesus" are saying anything contrary to what They said in the Bible! Which is exactly what happened to Joseph Smith. I'm curious as to why you didn't explain in the "Mormonism" thread what you're saying in this post. It would be a valuable contribution to that thread. Instead, you criticized me for quoting a former Mormon. ;)

The thread was about what an ex-Mormon wrote. I didn't want to venture into a long discussion that derailed it. I also didn't want to "pile on" making Jane think people were ganging up on her. That vision is troubling in more than one way; but Smith should have known that no man can see God and live. Even Buddhists and Hindus wouldn't claim something like that. I skimmed that other thread; but I also didn't see Smith's connections with Freemasons. I'm not slamming Freemasons. No, he seems to have stolen some ideas from them and passed them off to others as his own revelations. He may also have talked too much about some "mysteries" -- I don't know.

As I've said before, there's a HUGE difference between the practices used by mystics and the gifts of the Holy Spirit taught in the Bible and used by believers. These mystical practices are NOT promoted anywhere in the Bible. Nowhere in the Bible are we instructed to chant in order to experience an "ecstatic union" with God like the Eastern mystics do.

And what is the basis for this "mystical union"? It's not Jesus Christ! He is essentially bypassed in the mystical process, and yet, He says in His word that He IS the way to the Father--to experience God Himself. We cannot go any other way--not through some "spiritual disciplines" that are not taught in the Bible. Our very real union with God is through His Holy Spirit indwelling us.

As you can see, I feel very strongly about this issue because I see mysticism as a major tool the devil is using to bring about the great falling away from biblical truth. THIS is the apostasy talked about in the Bible, not what Joseph Smith alleged.

Again I cite what Jesus said about the night coming quickly when no man could work. While I agree somewhat with Smith then, I also think he got parts of the picture and then used those to benefit himself.

There are some things in the Bible that are left unexplained. Why did Jesus breath on his disciples? Why did he speak in parables so other people didn't understand? Over time, men have evolved theories about some things; but I think it fairly clear they're only theories.

I urge you and anyone else dabbling in mysticism to seriously consider what I'm saying. I believe that mystical practices are very dangerous and lead a person the wrong direction into the enemy's camp, not into a closer relationship with God!.

I think it depends on the person's heart. The person seeking "wisdom" to promote himself, to give himself money and power, may learn some things; but he will eventually go down. The person sincerely seeking for God will find. If people are attracted to things for the wrong reasons and go down in ruin, they have the right to do that. God is not mocked. False religion contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction. People can proceed so far and not farther.

We all have free will. God is still on His Throne. All is well. Everything is still going according to God's plan for this world. There is no need to panic or to think the world is so dangerous we have to "fight back." Christian history shows how the early Church fell into persecuting others over disagreements. They did not trust God's plan. They did not respect the Law of Free Will. They fell into spiritual wickedness themselves, trusting the power of the earthly sword over the Power of God.

 

[Nancy]

Donald

Also from The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America (p. 283):

The reference to the United Nations’ University for Peace in Costa Rica brings former United Nations Under Secretary Robert Muller into the picture. Muller wrote his own World Core Curriculum which he credits to a demon spirit guide, Djhwan Khul, who gained notoriety in the early 1900s as the spirit guide of Theosophist Alice Bailey who wrote Education in the New Age (Lucis Publishing Company: New York, 1954).12 Muller also authored a novel in 1988 entitled First Lady of the World (World Happiness and Cooperation: Anacortes, Wash., 1991) in which his fictitious world leader enumerates a series of proposals necessary for the smooth running of a global society. A few of those proposals follow:​

7. A World Core Curriculum and a Planetary Management Curriculum are adopted by UNESCO as common guides for proper Global Education in all schools and universities of Earth. 1996 is proclaimed International Year of Global Education....​

11. More and more countries disarm, demilitarize and have their borders protected by UN observers under regional and international guarantees. The savings are devoted to devel- opment, the environment, education and social services....​

15. A host of new world conferences are convened at an accelerated pace: on soil erosion, on mountain areas, reforestation, the world’s cold zones, consumer protection, standardization, world community, a world tax system, etc. (pp. 70–71)
.​

And to think that so very many people believe that the UN is a powerless, useless entity.

 

[Giuliano]

Breaklite mentioned "removal of parental authority," not restriction of that authority. Of course, parents don't have the right to murder or prostitute their children! But public schools have been USURPING parental authority for many years.

I would need the specifics.

Are you promoting one-world globalism? Are you in favor of a one-world government and one-world religion?
.

No. I believe the world was divided among the nations; and each nation is expected to develop differently. Babel was sinful since people had not spread out across the earth, and they all wanted to be the same. This desire that everyone be the same is a rebellion against the Law of Free Will.

It also doesn't work as far as I can see. The world is like one thing to me, yes, but it needs different nations, each with its unique contributions.

What I would promote is having the UN act as a global entity to guarantee the freedom of all peoples to govern themselves as they see fit. Look at Syria. Many countries sent military units there, each is competing to promote their own interests. I can think of many: Russians, Turks, Iranians, Americans, and even the Chinese. There could be more. Syrians should be deciding who rules Syria. Also other countries shouldn't be making money by selling arms that keep conflicts like the one in Syria going. If the UN actually worked, they would have decided to send a massive army in to drive out all foreigners so Syrians could set up a government and govern themselves; but the UN is powerless since Russia, the US or any other nation on the Security Council can veto such a proposal. Thus the conflict goes on.

 

[Giuliano]

In Australia recently there has been an ongoing debate over a local rugby player's comments on homosexuality. This man, who represented his country in his sport, is also a leader in his local church in Sydney. He posted a meme on social media suggesting that all sinners would go to hell unless they repent. The list of sinners (from scripture) included homosexuals. On this basis he has been sacked, his sporting contract torn up, and his future in any sport in doubt, on account that he breached the Rugby Union's Israel Folau case sets a precedent for religious freedom at work policy regarding inclusiveness. This concept of inclusiveness is at the core of the new age global mindset, and is now (as evidenced by Israel Folau) an accepted core value of corporate business. Any idea or suggestion that Christians are or can be separate from the world is under a great deal of pressure from governments and extreme lobbyists of all shapes and sizes...and genders.

The question that raises for me is how much power should employers have? What good are laws on the books guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of religion if your employer can decide what you can say and believe?

I think this is a bigger threat than the UN, the Freemasons or the books of dead people. Corporations are getting very powerful; and governments seem slow to notice that corporations have more power than legislatures because legislatures have neglected regulating what corporations can dictate to people. A few companies control most of the internet.

 

[Giuliano]

@Giuliano This conspiracy is indeed a conspiracy against freedom of religion...individualism...the family...national sovereignty...even God Himself because what it amounts to is a rebuilding of Babel...hence Babylon the Great, Mother of Harlots. But my friend, this is way way past a theory.

So you keep saying. I think you need to focus more on the role of money and how corporations can control people. Think about that rugby player.

Think too about corporations that make money manufacturing military equipment. Think about how they influence the internal politics of a country, and how they affect conflicts in other countries.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I see nothing wrong with it. I'd recommend chanting "Amen" for a while with the intention of God's Will being done in all three heavens and the earth. The Lord's Prayer is also good if you do it slowly focusing on the meaning of each phrase. Many people pray it without thinking.

Do you understand the purpose of chanting? The objective of chanting is not focusing on the meaning of words or phrases.

Eastern mystics chant in order to empty the mind of thought and enter a state of altered consciousness. In this altered state, they say they realize their oneness with the "divine Unity," whom they consider to be God. These are not Christians! But Christian mystics report a similar experience when they do mantra meditation.

"Mantra Meditation" by Ray Yungen from A Time of Departing​

The meditation most of us are familiar with involves a deep, continuous thinking about something. But New Age meditation does just the opposite. It involves ridding oneself of all thoughts in order to still the mind by putting it in the equivalent of pause or neutral. A comparison would be that of turning a fast-moving stream into a still pond. When meditation is employed by damming the free flow of thinking, it holds back active thought and causes a shift in consciousness. This condition is not to be confused with daydreaming, where the mind dwells on a subject. New Age meditation works as a holding mechanism until the mind becomes thoughtless, empty and silent.​

The two most common methods used to induce this thoughtless state are breathing exercises, where attention is focused on the breath, and a mantra, which is a repeated word or phrase. The basic process is to focus and maintain concentration without thinking about what you are focusing on. Repetition on the focused object is what triggers the blank mind.​

Since mantras are central to New Age meditation, it is important to understand a proper definition of the word. The translation from Sanskrit is man, meaning to think and tra, meaning to be liberated from. Thus, the word literally means to escape from thought. By repeating the mantra, either out loud or silently, the word or phrase begins to lose any meaning it once had. The conscious thinking process is gradually tuned out until an altered state of consciousness is achieved. But this silence is not the final objective; its attainment is only a means to an end. What that end entails was aptly described by English artist Vanora Goodhart after she embarked on the practice of zen meditation. She recounted: ​

[A] light began seeping through my closed eyelids, bright and gentle at first, but growing more and more intense … there was a great power and strength in this Light … I felt I was being drawn upwards and in a great and wonderful rush of power that rose eventually to a crescendo and bathed me through and through with glorious, burning, embracing Light.​

Such dynamic experiences as this are what New Age mysticism is really all about … not just believing in some doctrine or a faith that is supported by some creed but rather a close personal contact with a powerful Presence. The renowned occultist Dion Fortune acknowledged: 'shifting the consciousness is the key to all occult training.' In other words, meditation is the gateway to the 'light' Goodhart experienced. The ultimate objective of the meditation effort lies in the concept called the higher self. This is thought to be the part of the individual linked to the divine essence of the Universe, the God part of man....​

—Ray Yungen, A Time of Departing​

 

[Prayer Warrior]

What I would promote is having the UN act as a global entity to guarantee the freedom of all peoples to govern themselves as they see fit.

How can you be in favor of the UN controlling the world?? In this thread, you see the UN's evil agenda exposed. Did you read the things I posted about UNESCO, the education arm of the UN? The UN will never guarantee freedom for all people. This organization will be used by the anti-christ to wield his satanic control.

 

[Giuliano]

How can you be in favor of the UN controlling the world?? In this thread, you see the UN's evil agenda exposed. Did you read the things I posted about UNESCO, the education arm of the UN?

I read the article about Common Core.

The UN will never guarantee freedom for all people.

I see it as pretty much a failure.

This organization will be used by the anti-christ to wield his satanic control.

I wouldn't bet on this. The UN doesn't have the money, and money is what makes this world go 'round. I think if you want to control people, money's the easiest tool to use, so I say look to see who has the money to use that way and look to see how their corporations are eating away at people's freedom. They may collaborate with the UN and some political parties; but it's the people with the most money who call the shots. You can enslave people using money.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The thread was about what an ex-Mormon wrote. I didn't want to venture into a long discussion that derailed it. I also didn't want to "pile on" making Jane think people were ganging up on her. That vision is troubling in more than one way; but Smith should have known that no man can see God and live. Even Buddhists and Hindus wouldn't claim something like that. I skimmed that other thread; but I also didn't see Smith's connections with Freemasons. I'm not slamming Freemasons. No, he seems to have stolen some ideas from them and passed them off to others as his own revelations. He may also have talked too much about some "mysteries" -- I don't know.

The thread is about what Mormons believe.... Sharing your concerns about Smith would not have derailed the thread.

Not sure what you're saying about Freemasonry. Freemasons have promoted the ultimate lie that "God is Lucifer and Lucifer is God...." Mormon temples use Masonic symbols. (I've seen pics.) Lynn Wilder mentions this in her book.

Again I cite what Jesus said about the night coming quickly when no man could work. While I agree somewhat with Smith then, I also think he got parts of the picture and then used those to benefit himself.

You agree with Smith?? Do you understand the concept of apostasy that Smith promoted--that the true church was lost at one point until he restored it? The true church was NEVER lost! Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church!

I think it depends on the person's heart. The person seeking "wisdom" to promote himself, to give himself money and power, may learn some things; but he will eventually go down. The person sincerely seeking for God will find. If people are attracted to things for the wrong reasons and go down in ruin, they have the right to do that. God is not mocked. False religion contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction. People can proceed so far and not farther.

Yes, those who sincerely seek God will find Him, but they won't find Him using occult methods! These practices will always lead the person away from God and invite demonic influence and/or possession.

We all have free will. God is still on His Throne. All is well. Everything is still going according to God's plan for this world. There is no need to panic or to think the world is so dangerous we have to "fight back." Christian history shows how the early Church fell into persecuting others over disagreements. They did not trust God's plan. They did not respect the Law of Free Will. They fell into spiritual wickedness themselves, trusting the power of the earthly sword over the Power of God.

I hope that you don't think I'm persecuting you. It's not my intent to persecute anyone. I'm concerned for people who fall into a cult or the occult, thinking that they have found the truth and God Himself. I hope that you'll consider the info I've posted.
.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I read the article about Common Core.

I see it as pretty much a failure.

I wouldn't bet on this. The UN doesn't have the money, and money is what makes this world go 'round. I think if you want to control people, money's the easiest tool to use, so I say look to see who has the money to use that way and look to see how their corporations are eating away at people's freedom. They may collaborate with the UN and some political parties; but it's the people with the most money who call the shots. You can enslave people using money.

I agree that the anti-christ will not exclusively use the UN, but the UN has massive tentacles of control in nations all across the earth. They collaborate with many government leaders as well as NGO's in order to implement their global agenda.

I also agree that some corporations are just as dangerous. As I have said before, Google is taking over the earth! :)
.

 

[Giuliano]

The thread is about what Mormons believe.... Sharing your concerns about Smith would not have derailed the thread.

Not sure what you're saying about Freemasonry. Freemasons have promoted the ultimate lie that "God is Lucifer and Lucifer is God...." Mormon temples use Masonic symbols. (I've seen pics.) Lynn Wilder mentions this in her book.

Smith apparently offended the Freemasons in that area. For a while, they (in that area) wouldn't allow Mormons to join -- very unusual since Freemasons are usually very liberal about who can join.

You agree with Smith?? Do you understand the concept of apostasy that Smith promoted--that the true church was lost at one point until he restored it? The true church was NEVER lost! Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church!

I see history as consisting of days with nights and days. The Heavenly Light never goes completely out, but the world falls into spiritual slumber. I read this passage to contain some doctrine about the spiritual condition of Israel at the time:

1 Samuel 3:1 And the child Samuel ministered unto the Lord before Eli. And the word of the Lord was precious in those days; there was no open vision.
2 And it came to pass at that time, when Eli was laid down in his place, and his eyes began to wax dim, that he could not see;
3 And ere the lamp of God went out in the temple of the Lord, where the ark of God was, and Samuel was laid down to sleep;

Yes, those who sincerely seek God will find Him, but they won't find Him using occult methods! These practices will always lead the person away from God and invite demonic influence and/or possession.

I used to read Tarot cards. I was very good at it too. I had what some call "an elemental" who knew lots of things; and he could find out many things if he didn't already know. I was not possessed. I knew what was going on. At one point, I was "tempted" to move to California to "cash in." I probably could have led a cult. I didn't want to do that; but I can see why many people would have. To the pure all things are pure. I gave up reading them when I realized people wanted to have their fortunes told. They wanted me to tell them what to do. I was horrified that they wanted to give up free will and listen to me. When I stopped, the elemental left.

When I returned to Christianity, the story of Jesus' temptation made sense to me. I think that was Satan showing up, trying to see if he could get me to use my abilities in bad ways. I never charged anyone for the readings and I'm glad I never did. I could have been signing myself over to the Dark Side for money. Even when I was not a Christian, I knew I didn't want to do that.

I hope that you don't think I'm persecuting you. It's not my intent to persecute anyone. I'm concerned for people who fall into a cult or the occult, thinking that they have found the truth and God Himself. I hope that you'll consider the info I've posted.
.

No, I don't feel you are persecuting me.

 

[4Jesus]

What I would promote is having the UN act as a global entity to guarantee the freedom of all peoples to govern themselves as they see fit. Look at Syria. Many countries sent military units there, each is competing to promote their own interests. I can think of many: Russians, Turks, Iranians, Americans, and even the Chinese. There could be more. Syrians should be deciding who rules Syria. Also other countries shouldn't be making money by selling arms that keep conflicts like the one in Syria going. If the UN actually worked, they would have decided to send a massive army in to drive out all foreigners so Syrians could set up a government and govern themselves; but the UN is powerless since Russia, the US or any other nation on the Security Council can veto such a proposal. Thus the conflict goes on.

This sounds a lot like what the beast of Revelation will accomplish at some point, whether through the U.N. specifically or just of himself. Revelation 17:12-14 "
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

I'm sure those 10 kings will have cultural differences compared with each other, and along with that some governing differences as well, otherwise why would they have different kingdoms and not just be one (even though they are under one "god"/the beast)?