How many kingdoms in Daniel?

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ewq1938

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Daniel is not written in chronological order.
'Wrong. Most of chp 7 is and the 4th beast is defeated by the coming of God, and God's people receive an eternal kingdom at that time which proves the 4th beast cannot be Rome because it fell a very long time ago.

I don't believe so! i think everyone should be able to agree that Babylon was the first kingdom. I think everyone should agree that Medes-Persia conquered Babylon in 539 BC. I think everyone should agree the 3rd kingdom is Greece - even stated this in Chapter 8 by Gabriel and they certainly defeated the Persian Empire. This leaves the final kingdom - the 4th kingdom which we can all see is mentioned by these chapters.


All wrong. Those three empires did not outlive the Roman empire but Daniel writes that his first 3 beasts do survive past the destruction of the 4th beast. None of the empires you listed matches what Daniel saw.
 

CTK

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'Wrong. Most of chp 7 is and the 4th beast is defeated by the coming of God, and God's people receive an eternal kingdom at that time which proves the 4th beast cannot be Rome because it fell a very long time ago.




All wrong. Those three empires did not outlive the Roman empire but Daniel writes that his first 3 beasts do survive past the destruction of the 4th beast. None of the empires you listed matches what Daniel saw.
I guess you might be willing to show me the verses that speak to your interpretations. Do you want to begin with Chapter 2 and the establishment of the 4 kingdoms?

We can take it slowly and discover where we depart….

And remember, Daniel interprets Daniel. It was written for the Jews and their return home after Babylon. Thus, they would only have access to the Tanakh.

God would provide everything they might need to interpret Daniel… at least up to the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy- which covers most of Daniel.
 

Wick Stick

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I believe that almost all people who believe the 4th kingdom represents the post-Alexander period which included Ptolemy's, the Seluecid's and much later AE because they are following a "historical" approach.
That doesn't seem like a bad thing...
They are looking for any actor or event post Alexander's death that followed him in our history books. And, they contend that 11:5, and almost all of Chapter 11 speaks of these actors and events as opposed to pagan or pagal Rome. But they have nothing to do with the Book of Daniel.
Yes. It's pretty easy to match Dan 11 against history and see that the 'king of the north' corresponds to the Seleucids and the 'king of the south' the Ptolemies. The Romans are there too, but they're the "ships from Chittim."
It is God who brought 4 and only 4 kingdoms out of the earth or the sea and the 4th would be the most important kingdom since it would be in power when He arrived at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and it would reveal the coming of the little horn after the cross.
The prophets often have multiple fulfillments. It isn't necessary to deny the initial fulfillment in order to believe in a second fulfillment.
 

Douggg

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Thank you for your thoughts. I believe that almost all people who believe the 4th kingdom represents the post-Alexander period which included Ptolemy's, the Seluecid's and much later AE because they are following a "historical" approach. They are looking for any actor or event post Alexander's death that followed him in our history books. And, they contend that 11:5, and almost all of Chapter 11 speaks of these actors and events as opposed to pagan or pagal Rome. But they have nothing to do with the Book of Daniel.

It is God who brought 4 and only 4 kingdoms out of the earth or the sea and the 4th would be the most important kingdom since it would be in power when He arrived at the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and it would reveal the coming of the little horn after the cross.
Why do you say pagan Rome, but not say pagan Babylon, pagan Medo/Persian, pagan Greece ?

They all were pagan.

Are you trying to prove that the Pope is the Antichrist ?
 

Douggg

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It seems that everyone messes it up by including Rome as the 4th kingdom... it's not...

The 4 kingdoms are:
  • Babylon
  • Persia
  • Greece
  • The Diadochi
  • Babylonian
  • Medo/Persian
  • Greek/the Diadochi
  • Roman/EU (time of the end Roman)
 

Brakelite

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The Rock is indeed Christ, but the destruction referred to here is at His second coming, when He literally destroys all those powers whose philosophies, and predominant pagan religious elements were inherited by the sea beast of Revelation 13. All elements of the statue were destroyed at the same time.
“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. ”
Daniel 2:45 KJV

It is true that the Rock struck the Statue on the feet, which was the foundation and chronologically, the current administration of the mystery of iniquity, the man of sin, the antichrist of the Revelation 13 sea beast that had inherited the philosophies, the principle pagan elements of the previous powers. This was prophecied elsewhere, that when the literal local empires were destroyed, they would yet continue a while albeit in another form

“As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. ”
Daniel 7:12 KJV

...as a united spiritual power of the last days and a composite of those four pagan empires. That final structure, the sea beast of Revelation 13, the mixture of clay and iron, is the union of church and state, Babylon riding the beast, today seeking rulership over the world. She will, along with the remnants of pagan philosophy and error, be destroyed utterly at the second coming.

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. ”
Daniel 2:35 KJV
 

CTK

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That doesn't seem like a bad thing...

Yes. It's pretty easy to match Dan 11 against history and see that the 'king of the north' corresponds to the Seleucids and the 'king of the south' the Ptolemies. The Romans are there too, but they're the "ships from Chittim."

The prophets often have multiple fulfillments. It isn't necessary to deny the initial fulfillment in order to believe in a second fulfillment.
Thanks for responding. I understand- that is why I have preached at least 2 major issues; Daniel is just so difficult to interpret, and, secondly, it is impossible to interpret it correctly IF one attempts to match the verses to our history books.
Chapter 11 quickly does away with the previous 2 kingdoms in 11:1-4. There are placed in our rear view mirror. Verse 11:5 begins with / in pagan Rome and takes us through the coming Messiah, the destruction of the Temple, the demise of pagan Rome, the ascendance of the little horn and papal Rome. It brings us nicely into Chapter 12 which is the true end time verses - although they are obviously not details because the Book of Daniel really is all about the 70 weeks of years prophecy, the coming of the Messiah, the beginning of His earthly church and the appropriation of His church by the little horn (papal Rome) who will continue until His second coming.
 

CTK

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Why do you say pagan Rome, but not say pagan Babylon, pagan Medo/Persian, pagan Greece ?

They all were pagan.

Are you trying to prove that the Pope is the Antichrist ?
I am not trying to prove anything! You are indeed correct in that ALL of the 4 kingdoms are Gentile / pagan, but the 4th kingdom is the only one that will be “divided.” After the cross, God’s church will grow exponentially. By the time of Constantine, it will become an accepted religion and within another 50 years it will be the official religion of PAGAN ROME. But as you know, pagan Rome was in the decline during the past 300 years when in 467 AD, it would essentially cease to be … This is prophecised in 7:11 (also n Chapter 2- the “divided” kingdom.

As pagan Rome declined, the church grew in power - not only in all religious matters but they would come to reign over secular matters. There was much argument and turmoil among the 5 Christian centers. Each of the powerful bishops of Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem, Constantinople and Rome wanted to be THE BISHOP and head of the Christian church. But it would be Rome that would win out and eventually its bishop would take on the title of the pope / papacy and become the head of papal Rome. So, the little horn of Daniel 7 (who came out of the 4th kingdom- meaning it was a small Christian church), would rise to the “top of the 4th kingdom beast” after pagan Rome was slain and the Christian church became the most powerful organization headed by this little horn. And you can see that His early church started by His disciples would become a very different church over the next 400 years. It would bring in pagan practices and idols, etc. It would not resemble the church began by Jesus. Now, this pope would change God’s laws and commands, claim he could forgive sin, he was equal to God, that salvation would come through his church (RCC), on and on … total corruption of the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus
 

CTK

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The Rock is indeed Christ, but the destruction referred to here is at His second coming, when He literally destroys all those powers whose philosophies, and predominant pagan religious elements were inherited by the sea beast of Revelation 13. All elements of the statue were destroyed at the same time.
“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. ”
Daniel 2:45 KJV

It is true that the Rock struck the Statue on the feet, which was the foundation and chronologically, the current administration of the mystery of iniquity, the man of sin, the antichrist of the Revelation 13 sea beast that had inherited the philosophies, the principle pagan elements of the previous powers. This was prophecied elsewhere, that when the literal local empires were destroyed, they would yet continue a while albeit in another form

“As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. ”
Daniel 7:12 KJV

...as a united spiritual power of the last days and a composite of those four pagan empires. That final structure, the sea beast of Revelation 13, the mixture of clay and iron, is the union of church and state, Babylon riding the beast, today seeking rulership over the world. She will, along with the remnants of pagan philosophy and error, be destroyed utterly at the second coming.

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. ”
Daniel 2:35 KJV
Thanks for your comments… if you do not mind, I will respond in the AM.
 
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Douggg

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That final structure, the sea beast of Revelation 13, the mixture of clay and iron, is the union of church and state, Babylon riding the beast, today seeking rulership over the world. She will, along with the remnants of pagan philosophy and error, be destroyed utterly at the second coming.
The woman riding the beast is not destroyed at the second coming - but before then, by the ten kings, in Revelation 17:16.

You have some of the entities mixed up.

The woman is the Vatican. To be burnt to the ground by the ten EU leaders.

Mystery Babylon, mother of harlots and abomination of the earth, is the spiritual kingdom of Satan and his angels.
 
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Douggg

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I am not trying to prove anything! You are indeed correct in that ALL of the 4 kingdoms are Gentile / pagan, but the 4th kingdom is the only one that will be “divided.”
What text are you reading "divided" ? Verse(s), please.

If you are not trying to prove the Pope is the Antichrist, then are trying to prove the Pope is the little horn person ? Who is the time of the end little horn person ?
 

Brakelite

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The woman riding the beast is not destroyed at the second coming - but before then, by the ten kings, in Revelation 17:17.

You have some of the entities mixed up.

The woman is the Vatican. To be burnt to the ground by the ten EU leaders.

Mystery Babylon, mother of harlots and abomination of the earth, is the spiritual kingdom of Satan and his angels.
I agree with you regarding the Vatican... but it is Christ Who destroys it using the kings of the earth as the vehicles of His wrath. I disagree with you concerning the kings and their territory. I believe they are global, a confederate of kings placed as rulers over 10 artificially designed territories covering the planet. There are official governmentally proposed maps available on-line showing this.
Babylon the Great is a spiritual designation for the whole shebang, the union of the Catholic Church along with her daughters... apostate protestant churches that returned to mother, along with the plethora of non Christian faiths that have and will in the future surrender to papal authority, such as Islam, Hinduism, and all the secret occult societies such as freemasonry who were created centuries ago by as fronts to Catholic instigated terrorism against her enemies. Even Israel as a nation seems to me to be a manufactured entity to act as a scapegoat for Catholic atrocities against Islam.
 

Douggg

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There will be a Fifth Kingdom:
The Kingdom of Jesus – 2 Samuel 22:32

Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance of the whole world is given to the holy people of God. Revelation 20:6
Yes, there is a the fifth kingdom - that of the Kingdom of God, that when Jesus returns will break all of the four kingdoms of men that are described in Daniel as being parallel to the kingdom of Israel.

1. Babylonian - Israel in captivity
2. Medo-Persian - Israel in captivity/returns to the land
3. Greek - Israel under occupancy, Antiochus IV's time
4. Roman - Israel under Roman Empire occupancy, at the time of Jesus - King of Israel, coming in the name of the Lord, rejected by his own people

At time of the end...
Antichrist - little horn person coming from the EU, anointed King of Israel messiah. The EU, Roman empire manifested in the end times
 

Douggg

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I agree with you regarding the Vatican... but it is Christ Who destroys it using the kings of the earth as the vehicles of His wrath.
The ten kings that align themselves with the beast-king will destroy the Vatican, burn it to the ground, before the second coming.

At the second coming, the kings of the earth and their armies gathered to make war on Jesus and His armies will be destroyed at the second coming. Revelation 19:19-21. I agree on that timing.
Babylon the Great is a spiritual designation for the whole shebang, the union of the Catholic Church along with her daughters... apostate protestant churches that returned to mother, along with the plethora of non Christian faiths that have and will in the future surrender to papal authority, such as Islam, Hinduism, and all the secret occult societies such as freemasonry who were created centuries ago by as fronts to Catholic instigated terrorism against her enemies. Even Israel as a nation seems to me to be a manufactured entity to act as a scapegoat for Catholic atrocities against Islam.
If I understand you correctly, you are talking about a one world religion headed by the Vatican. btw, I don't see protestant churches returning to Vatican authority.

While the Vatican has taken steps in that direction, a one world religion union is not Babylon the Great, as the Vatican did not create all the false religions, i.e the Vatican is not the mother of those religions.
 

Douggg

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I disagree with you concerning the kings and their territory. I believe they are global, a confederate of kings placed as rulers over 10 artificially designed territories covering the planet. There are official governmentally proposed maps available on-line showing this.
Here's the problem with ten global regions.

Near the end of the 7 years, in Daniel 11:40-45, the beast-king will be attacked by the south, then north, then east. The beast-king as king of the west (concluded, not stated so in the text).
 

Brakelite

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I don't see protestant churches returning to Vatican authority.
Where you bin? And Frankie ain't finished yet. The second beast who rose up at the came time as the apparently mortal wound of the papacy in 1798, is the United States. A protestant nation. Read what that fallen protestant nation does on behalf of a resurgent papacy.
 

Douggg

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Where you bin? And Frankie ain't finished yet. The second beast who rose up at the came time as the apparently mortal wound of the papacy in 1798, is the United States. A protestant nation. Read what that fallen protestant nation does on behalf of a resurgent papacy.
The second beast in Revelation 13 is the false prophet, not a nation.
 

CTK

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The Rock is indeed Christ, but the destruction referred to here is at His second coming, when He literally destroys all those powers whose philosophies, and predominant pagan religious elements were inherited by the sea beast of Revelation 13. All elements of the statue were destroyed at the same time.
“Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure. ”
Daniel 2:45 KJV

It is true that the Rock struck the Statue on the feet, which was the foundation and chronologically, the current administration of the mystery of iniquity, the man of sin, the antichrist of the Revelation 13 sea beast that had inherited the philosophies, the principle pagan elements of the previous powers. This was prophecied elsewhere, that when the literal local empires were destroyed, they would yet continue a while albeit in another form

Ok,I am going try and respond to your comments ..... hopefully, they might make sense to you .... but they will not be in line with your interpretations.

First, the "Stone" in 2:34 is indeed the Messiah, but unlike EVERYONE'S interpretation, this represents Jesus at His first coming. He is the One that is only referred to as the "Stone." God the Father, in Daniel, is never referredt to as the "Stone." He is referred to as the "Ancient of Days," or the "Mountain," (Stone cut out of the Mountain).

Verses 2:31 - 35 represents the "Dream sequence" of verses that Daniel will provide to Nebuchadnezzar. These short verses establish the "structure" or the borders and boundaries (internal and external), the restrictions, guidlines, actors, time periods, where all of the verses in all 12 chapters will be found to take place. In these few verses, God will establish His "big picture," namely, the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that He will call out of the earth or the sea. He will identify the only two actions found in these verses: Verse 2:34 represents the Stone (Jesus) who will arrive at the end of the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome. This is also the last week in the 70 weeks of years prophecy that describes His God given mission (9:24) and all the events that will take place as a result of His first coming.

Verse 2:35 represents the return of Jesus at the end of time when He will gather in the harvest. Thus, within 2:35, we will find the mention of the "threshing floor" scene, AND, now we find the Stone (Messiah) has become a great mountain and filled the whole earth. His church began at the cross and it would be another 2000 years when His Word and Testimony would go throughout the world.

So that is the big picture or formal structure that will be followed throughout the Book of Daniel. God will clearly use different symbols and provide additional characteristics to or within these 4 kingdoms, but these borders and boundaries and restrictions will never be breached. Meaning, each kingdom has its own mission to accomplish within God's plan of salvation, it's own set of actors and events and its own time period before it is turned over to the succeeding kingdom.

Verses 2:36 - 45 represents the "interpretation sequence" verses. These are NOT a continuation of events that will take place after verse 2:35. There are many chapters (mostly Hebrew) that are not presented in chronoligical order. Verses 36 - 40 is a recap of the 4 and only 4 kingdoms that God will call out within His prophecy. And for those who contend there is more than 4 kingdoms, you should note that in Chapter 2, Daniel mentions twice the exact number of kingdoms... there is absolutely no mention of a 5th or 6th, etc. Many attempt to separate the feet from the legs of iron but that is not mentioned, hinted or implied whatsoever. However, they have done so to fit their narrative of a 5th or more kingdom coming at the end of time. We should not add or subtract from His Word and whether you like it or not, God only gives Daniel the 4 kingdoms that will come out of the earth or sea.

Verses 2:41-45 represent the "details" of the "interpretation sequence" verses that speak ONLY to the 4th kingdom. God does not spend any "ink" on the first three kingdoms within the "interpretation sequence" verses. The 4th kingdom is where He wants us to focus our attention on ... This will be found in the coming Hebrew chapters as well but it will be even more pronounced. God will quickly get the first three kingdoms out of the way to reveal the most important prophecies that take place within the 4th kingdom - and of course, this includes His arrival, crucifixion, the set up of His church, the demise of pagan Rome, the appropriation of His church by the little horn.

So, the "Stone" (Messiah) will symbolically strike the feet of the 4th kingdom beast. This refers to His first coming where He will go to the cross. As a result of His sacrifice, He will symbolically separate the iron (Rome) from the clay (His people) that have been under the Roman Empire and their control. The Jews expected to see their Messiah arrive and physically destroy the Romans and establish His kingdom, however, this was not God's plan. Instead of a military means, Jesus would separate those of His people who would accept Him as their Messiah. Within these verses they will be referred to as "pottery clay," because God will mold them as He chooses to do His will. Those Jews who would reject Him would be referred to in these verses as "ceramic" clay, because they were hardened and God could not or would not mold them to spread His Word and Testimony throughout the Roman Empire.

The verses in 41-43 are / were extremely difficult to unpack and after many, many attempts to interpret these verses, it was only after it was discovered that it could only be properly interpreted when 2:34 represented the Messiah's first coming. He did not come to destroy but to divide, and He indeed divided His people into either the pottery or the ceramic clay. Not only do these verses reflect the "setting up" of His earthly church but it reveals the changes in His church that will take place over the coming 500 years.

Without trying to go into the details for each verse, one can or should be able to see the transitions and changes that will take place within the 4th kingdom (only) after the cross. Before the cross (33) the 4th kingdom is identified as legs of iron with feet partly of iron and partly of clay. But in these interpretation verses (after the Messiah strikes the feet and separates the iron from the clay), you will see the kingdom will come to be identified as a "divided" kingdom. This divided kingdom is now identifie as "partly clay and partly iron." Meaning, the iron kingdom of pagan Rome which was dominate in iron with some clay within its feet) would be replaced by a kingdom that now is shown to have the clay in the superior position to that of the iron. This is the result of the tremendous growth of the Christian church. It began with the disciples (pottery clay) and then they were tremendously successful in conventing hundreds of thousands of Gentiles to Christianity. As pagan Rome declined (iron and clay), it would be eventually replace by papal Rome (clay and iron). The Gentiles would come to dominate the Christian church yet they would still keep / use the iron component of pagan Rome to come to and retain their power. This can easily be seen to start to take place at the time of Constantine when Christianity will soon become the religion of pagan Rome. Thus, the Christian Church will still have the "iron" within it - it would continue to use whatever military power of pagan Rome necessary to gain and keep control of the empire (now the papal Roman empire).

This is long enought but before I respond to your next comments, I would ask you to consider the above and let me know thoughts.

“As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. ”
Daniel 7:12 KJV

...as a united spiritual power of the last days and a composite of those four pagan empires. That final structure, the sea beast of Revelation 13, the mixture of clay and iron, is the union of church and state, Babylon riding the beast, today seeking rulership over the world. She will, along with the remnants of pagan philosophy and error, be destroyed utterly at the second coming.

Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. ”
Daniel 2:35 KJV
 

Ronald Nolette

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Below are the relevant verses in Daniel (stopped at Chapter 7) that discuss how many kingdoms are found, and my interpretations on those verses. Please consider.


Chapter 2



Here Daniel is telling us the “structure” of the kingdoms in this great image. Except for the head, each of the next 3 kingdoms are identified with having 2 body parts. The only kingdom that is symbolized with more than one metal component is the 4th which has a “clay” component WITHIN IT. This is because the clay will represent the Jewish people.


34
You watched while a stone was cut out without hands, which struck the image on its feet of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces.

The “Stone” (Messiah at His first coming) will strike the feet (not the legs) and break “them” (iron and clay components only) into pieces. This will symbolically separate the Jewish people from being encased in pagan Rome. The Jews expected their Messiah to come and destroy the iron legs and feet of pagan Rome, but Jesus did not come to destroy but to “divide.” Symbolically, the cross is the action that would separate the clay into two separate parts: the “pottery clay” would represent those Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah (after the cross) and preach the Good News to the world, while the “ceramic” clay represents those Jews who were “hardened” and would reject Him. And of course, the iron would still be iron along with the rest of the legs of pagan Rome.

Note: 2:35 represents His second coming where all things are destroyed.




Interpretation Sequence:

36...Now we will tell the interpretation of it before the king. 37You, O king, are a king of kings. For the God of heaven has given you a kingdom, power, strength, and glory; 38and wherever the children of men dwell, or the beasts of the field and the birds of the heaven, He has given them into your hand, and has made you ruler over them all—you are this head of gold. 39But after you shall arise another kingdom inferior to yours; then another, a third kingdom of bronze, which shall rule over all the earth. 40And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron, inasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and shatters everything; and like iron that crushes, that kingdom will break in pieces and crush all the others.

Within these “interpretation sequence” verses, Daniel identifies the 4 and only 4 kingdoms. And in verse 40, he reveals the 4th kingdom (pagan Rome – iron kingdom) will break in pieces and crush all the others (the other 3 kingdoms… no, they did not directly destroy Babylon, Medes-Persia, or Greece, but they destroyed ALL “OTHER NATIONS). Meaning, 2:34 did not destroy the entire image but only separated the iron and the clay within the feet.


So, within Chapter 2, Daniel reveals twice there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms found in the metal man image. The breaking of the two components of iron and clay within the feet does not create a 5th kingdom. It only separates the two symbolic materials.




Chapter 7

Dream Sequence:


3
And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other. 4The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.5“And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’6“After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.7“After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet.

Here, Daniel is given his own dream where God reveals the same 4 and only 4 kingdoms that come out of the sea (instability / turmoil). It also confirms the 4th beast kingdom of iron (pagan Rome) is the same 4th kingdom that is so destructive as the 4th kingdom in Chapter 2. And notice, there is no mention whatsoever of a 5th kingdom.



4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome):

11
“I watched then because of the sound of the [f]pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

Here, Daniel is telling us the 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body destroyed. The timing of this is approx.. 476 BC. The “rest of the beasts” (Babylon, Medes-Persians and Greece) will never again come to power and rule over another kingdom, but of course, they (people, culture, etc.,) will continue living.

4th beast kingdom (papal Rome):

17‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four [h]kings which arise out of the earth. 19“Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke Daniel 7 NKJVpompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

Once again, Daniel confirm there are 4 and only 4 kingdoms / beasts that come out of the earth (God has selected these 4 and only 4 kingdoms to reveal His plan of salvation in). However, Daniel is having difficulty recognizing this [new / different] 4th beast; it was different from “all the others,” and here “the others” would include pagan Rome which he saw before it was slain. These verses reveal the 4 kingdoms AFTER pagan Rome was slain and its body was destroyed. Still 4 kingdoms but this [new or replaced power] now is revealed not only with “teeth of iron” but now with “nails of bronze.” Now, this 4th beast kingdom has 10 horns coming out of it and a little horn coming out of it after the 10. This “4th beast” doesn’t look at all like the 4th beast he saw earlier. In Chapter 2, the Stone broke into pieces the iron and clay within the feet. As a consequence of the only event in Chapter 2, we find in Chapter 7 there are now two additional entities that have “come out” of pagan Rome (BEFORE the demise of pagan Rome) – the 10 horns and the little horn.





Here is the Chapter 7 interpretation sequence, Gabriel reveals the truth about this [new] 4th kingdom that Daniel does not recognize and wants to know more about. This 4th beast will be different from “all the other kingdoms” – this would include pagan Rome but Gabriel still tells him there are only 4. But there will be 10 kings that WERE earlier referred to as “horns,” and another “little horn” that shall arise after them who will subdue 3 of the 10. Apparently, the “little horn” has grown in power and has now subdued 3 of the 10 that came out of pagan Rome initially.
One has to read the visions and dreams of Daniel paying careful attention to little words.

There are four kingdoms. However the fourth kingdom lasts now for over 2300 years. It began with Rome and continues to this day. It is now in the two legged stage and soon will go to the ten toes (ten horns) stage after it becomes a 1 world government. From the ten horn stage, the eleventh horn of the fourth kingdom overcomes three of the original ten and the 11th horn becomes world ruler, whom we know as Antichrist. It is then with him ruling over the ten horns and the world that jesus returns.

If one looks at history one can clearly see that the fourth kingdom which began with Rome has never ceased to rule in the affairs of the Gentiles. Jesus even told us that Jerusalem will be controlled until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Israel now has de-facto control except for the most crucial area- temple mount.
 

CTK

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One has to read the visions and dreams of Daniel paying careful attention to little words.

There are four kingdoms. However the fourth kingdom lasts now for over 2300 years. It began with Rome and continues to this day. It is now in the two legged stage and soon will go to the ten toes (ten horns) stage after it becomes a 1 world government. From the ten horn stage, the eleventh horn of the fourth kingdom overcomes three of the original ten and the 11th horn becomes world ruler, whom we know as Antichrist. It is then with him ruling over the ten horns and the world that jesus returns.

If one looks at history one can clearly see that the fourth kingdom which began with Rome has never ceased to rule in the affairs of the Gentiles. Jesus even told us that Jerusalem will be controlled until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. Israel now has de-facto control except for the most crucial area- temple mount.
Thank you very much for your thoughts. Yes, there are only 4 kingdoms and yes, the 4th kingdom is Rome, but it is not pagan Rome. It has been replaced by papal Rome around 500 AD, and as you have mentioned, it will continue until His return.

I don't understand what you mean that the 4th kingdom lasts now for over 2300 years? Please help me with this....
I do not see in Daniel nor in any other book of the Scriptures (including Revelation) there is such a literal character as an "anti-Christ" figure. There definitiely is the "spirit" of the anti-Christ, but that is anyone preaching a different gospel and agains the Word of God. The mythical / literal anti-Christ figure was created by the Jesuits in the 16th century (time of the Reformation) and they developed the grossly unscriptural 7 years tribulation theory where they took the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy (that belongs exclusively to the Messiah) and threw it some 2000 years into the future.


Yes, at the end of the "time of the Gentiles," which I believe we are so near, the Good Lord will return, and He will destroy the little horn (papacy).


Personally, I never became overly concerned with the symbolism of the two legs of the 4th kingdom. However, if I were to consider the symbolism within my interpretations, I believe it would not conflict at all. Pagan Rome will come to have its capital in Constantinople when Christianity was made an "accepted" religion. Within 50 years it would become the official religion of pagan Rome, and not very long after, we would see the demise of pagan Rome (7:11) to be replaced by the very powerful Christian church headed by the little horn. So, perhaps one leg is Constantinople while the other is Rome when the bishop of Rome would "win out" as the top bishop of the Christian religion over the bishops of Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem and Constantinople. He would soon give himself the title of the Vicar of Christ and the pope.

Therefore, a "two staged" 4th kingdom would be pagan Rome to be succeeded by papal Rome. The 10 toes / horns / kings are NOT an end time set of kingdoms. They existed in Chapter 2 - before verse 2:34 when the Messiah would strike the feet of the image, and they would be seen after the cross but would now be identified as 10 horns (powers). And then again, a little later in Chapter 7 they will be identified as 10 kings. So, they were in existence throughout the 4th beast kingdom, both before and after the cross and they will also continue until the end of times.