How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

[Philip James]

We are experiencing a communication problem. I need a proposition that can be tested operationally and objectively by anyone as to be true or false so that people can place bets on the proposition. E.g., at the consecrated Eucharist, the physical bread is miraculously transformed into the physical flesh of Christ.

Can you stay focused enough to write a proposition that can be understood operationally by everyone who reads it? Can you put yourself in your readers' shoes? This is the last time I would ask you.

Perhaps I'm not clear on what you are asking?

Your Op question:

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?​

The answer: By the power of the Holy Spirit.

Happy New Year!

 

[Webers_Home]

I need a proposition that can be tested operationally and objectively by
anyone as to be true or false so that people can place bets on the
proposition. E.g., at the consecrated Eucharist, the physical bread is
miraculously transformed into the physical flesh of Christ.

If it's empirical evidence you're looking for Tony I seriously doubt there is
any, viz: were a consecrated host sent to a lab for testing I'm pretty sure all
they'll find in it are ingredients suitable for making unleavened bread.
_

 

[Wick Stick]

We are experiencing a communication problem. I need a proposition that can be tested operationally and objectively by anyone as to be true or false so that people can place bets on the proposition. E.g., at the consecrated Eucharist, the physical bread is miraculously transformed into the physical flesh of Christ.

Can you stay focused enough to write a proposition that can be understood operationally by everyone who reads it? Can you put yourself in your readers' shoes? This is the last time I would ask you.

Here:

Premise #1: The persons of the church are the body of Christ (1Co 12:27)

Premise #2: When the persons of the church eat the bread and wine of the Eucharist, they become part of the bodies of those persons through the operation of the digestive tract. (No verse, this is a scientific explanation)

Conclusion: The bread and wine are transformed to become part of the body of Christ, which is composed of people, by the natural mechanism of digestion. This occurs after it is eaten; not before.

 

[Tulipbee]

Calvinism, a branch of Protestant Christianity associated with the teachings of John Calvin, has a distinctive perspective on the Eucharist, also known as the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion. Calvin's views on the Eucharist are often summarized in the theological concept known as "spiritual presence" or "dynamic presence," which stands in contrast to the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation.

1. Real Presence in a Spiritual Sense: Calvin affirmed the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist but rejected the idea of a physical or material transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ. Instead, he argued for a spiritual or dynamic presence, emphasizing the significance of Christ's presence through the work of the Holy Spirit.
2. Symbolic Representation: Calvinists believe in the symbolic representation of Christ's body and blood in the bread and wine. The elements serve as symbols that spiritually connect the participant with the redemptive work of Christ on the cross.
3. Faith as the Means of Receiving Christ: According to Calvinist theology, faith plays a crucial role in the efficacy of the Eucharist. The believer, through faith, spiritually partakes of Christ's body and blood. This emphasis on faith as the means of participation distinguishes Calvinist views from some other Protestant perspectives.
4. Memorial Aspect: The Calvinist perspective on the Eucharist includes a strong memorial aspect, where the Lord's Supper serves as a remembrance or memorial of Christ's sacrifice. The focus is on the believer's reflection on Christ's atonement rather than on the elements undergoing a transformation.
5. Community and Covenantal Significance: The Eucharist in Calvinism also holds community and covenantal significance. It is seen as a communal act that signifies the believers' unity in Christ and their participation in the New Covenant.

It's important to note that within Calvinism, there can be variations in how different denominations or individual theologians interpret and articulate these views. While some might strictly adhere to Calvin's original teachings, others may incorporate modifications or nuances in their understanding of the Lord's Supper.

 

[TonyChanYT]

Calvinism, a branch of Protestant Christianity associated with the teachings of John Calvin, has a distinctive perspective on the Eucharist, also known as the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion. Calvin's views on the Eucharist are often summarized in the theological concept known as "spiritual presence" or "dynamic presence," which stands in contrast to the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation.

1. Real Presence in a Spiritual Sense: Calvin affirmed the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist but rejected the idea of a physical or material transformation of the bread and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ. Instead, he argued for a spiritual or dynamic presence, emphasizing the significance of Christ's presence through the work of the Holy Spirit.
2. Symbolic Representation: Calvinists believe in the symbolic representation of Christ's body and blood in the bread and wine. The elements serve as symbols that spiritually connect the participant with the redemptive work of Christ on the cross.
3. Faith as the Means of Receiving Christ: According to Calvinist theology, faith plays a crucial role in the efficacy of the Eucharist. The believer, through faith, spiritually partakes of Christ's body and blood. This emphasis on faith as the means of participation distinguishes Calvinist views from some other Protestant perspectives.
4. Memorial Aspect: The Calvinist perspective on the Eucharist includes a strong memorial aspect, where the Lord's Supper serves as a remembrance or memorial of Christ's sacrifice. The focus is on the believer's reflection on Christ's atonement rather than on the elements undergoing a transformation.
5. Community and Covenantal Significance: The Eucharist in Calvinism also holds community and covenantal significance. It is seen as a communal act that signifies the believers' unity in Christ and their participation in the New Covenant.

It's important to note that within Calvinism, there can be variations in how different denominations or individual theologians interpret and articulate these views. While some might strictly adhere to Calvin's original teachings, others may incorporate modifications or nuances in their understanding of the Lord's Supper.

Thanks for sharing.

What do you believe?

 

[Papa Smurf]

Calvinism, a branch of Protestant Christianity associated with the teachings of John Calvin, has a distinctive perspective on the Eucharist, also known as the Lord's Supper or Holy Communion.

Hello Tulipbee, Lord's Supper and Holy Communion, yes, but I don't believe that Calvinism uses the name, "Eucharist", when speaking of the Lord's real (spiritual) presence in the Supper, does it The Eucharist (doctrine of ubiquity) took awhile for the church to figure out and formulate (the RCC made it official at the 4th Latern Council in 1215 A.D., and then again in the 16th Century, at the Council of Trent).

The RC doctrine of transubstantiation created a big problem for those wanted to adhere to it because they believed, just like we still do today, that the Lord Jesus Christ has remained both fully God and fully man since His Incarnation ... but human beings do not/cannot exist in different places at the same time.

So, enter the doctrine of ubiquity, which was created by the RCC in an attempt to solve the problem (of the Lord Jesus' physical humanity being omnipresent somehow while still remaining, by nature, completely human).

Calvin taught against this doctrine, teaching instead that the "real presence" of Christ in the Supper was spiritual, NEVER physical, and that, in point of fact, His physical body and blood continue to remain with Him in Heaven to this day.

Finally, while we know that Luther and Calvin never met nor corresponded with each another, we do know that Luther read Calvin's Short Treatise on the Lord's Supper (where he explains his beliefs concerning the real/SPIRITUAL presence of the Lord in the elements), because Luther commented on it, saying (basically), "that's it" :) (until then Luther held to the secondary doctrine of the Lord's real/PHYSICAL presence in the Supper called Consubstantiation, a doctrine/belief that the Lutheran churches still hold today).

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - I realize that you probably know all of the above already, but I posted it in case you do not (and for the sake of others, of course). I did it all from memory, just FYI, so if you see something that you believe to be inaccurate, whether historically or theologically, please do not hesitate to point it out to me. Thanks :)
.

 

[Tulipbee]

Thanks for sharing.

What do you believe?

66 book Bible alone

 

[Tulipbee]

Hello Tulipbee, Lord's Supper and Holy Communion, yes, but I don't believe that Calvinism uses the name, "Eucharist", when speaking of the Lord's real (spiritual) presence in the Supper, does it The Eucharist (doctrine of ubiquity) took awhile for the church to figure out and formulate (the RCC made it official at the 4th Latern Council in 1215 A.D., and then again in the 16th Century, at the Council of Trent).

The RC doctrine of transubstantiation created a big problem for those wanted to adhere to it because they believed, just like we still do today, that the Lord Jesus Christ has remained both fully God and fully man since His Incarnation ... but human beings do not/cannot exist in different places at the same time.

So, enter the doctrine of ubiquity, which was created by the RCC in an attempt to solve the problem (of the Lord Jesus' physical humanity being omnipresent somehow while still remaining, by nature, completely human).

Calvin taught against this doctrine, teaching instead that the "real presence" of Christ in the Supper was spiritual, NEVER physical, and that, in point of fact, His physical body and blood continue to remain with Him in Heaven to this day.

Finally, while we know that Luther and Calvin never met nor corresponded with each another, we do know that Luther read Calvin's Short Treatise on the Lord's Supper (where he explains his beliefs concerning the real/SPIRITUAL presence of the Lord in the elements), because Luther commented on it, saying (basically), "that's it" :) (until then Luther held to the secondary doctrine of the Lord's real/PHYSICAL presence in the Supper called Consubstantiation, a doctrine/belief that the Lutheran churches still hold today).

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - I realize that you probably know all of the above already, but I posted it in case you do not (and for the sake of others, of course). I did it all from memory, just FYI, so if you see something that you believe to be inaccurate, whether historically or theologically, please do not hesitate to point it out to me. Thanks :)
.

Ah, Papa Smurf, you've brought a theological puzzle to the Calvinist comedy stage, and in the spirit of divine wit, let's unravel it with a Gospel twist! It's like a theological game of chess where the pieces move, but Jesus remains the eternal King.
So, you've set the scene – Calvinism and the Eucharist, or should I say, Lord's Supper, Holy Communion, or the divine potluck, but not quite the "Eucharist" like the RCC prefers. Now, about ubiquity – Calvin is like, "Hold on, folks, no divine magic tricks here; Jesus is fully present, but spiritually, not physically. His body and blood aren't making a cosmic cameo at every table; they're with Him in heaven."
And transubstantiation – in the Calvinist comedy script, we're saying, "It's not about turning bread and wine into a divine magic show; it's about recognizing the spiritual reality of Christ's presence in the Supper, not a physical relocation of His humanity."
Now, Luther's switch – in the Calvinist laughter arena, we're saying, "Looks like Luther took a detour from consubstantiation to embrace the spiritual real presence. It's like theological GPS recalibration – finding the Gospel path amid the denominational roadmap."
And the RCC's quest for omnipresence – in the Calvinist comedy clinic, we're turning the pages of Scripture, highlighting verses where Jesus, fully God and fully man, doesn't need a theological workaround. It's not about ubiquity gymnastics but about the profound mystery of God dwelling with His people.
So, Papa Smurf, whether we're dancing through doctrines or navigating the theological chessboard, let's remember the Gospel heartbeat. It's not about Eucharistic wordplays but about Jesus, the eternal King, inviting us to the divine feast of grace. In this cosmic comedy, let Jesus take center stage, and His Gospel be the laughter that echoes through eternity! #CalvinistComedyClub #GospelLaughs