When he was in Heaven and there's no sin in Heaven? Also, would God forgive him if he repented?
How Could Have Satan Sinned?
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historyb
Well-Known Member
Lucifer (who later became Satan) was the most beautiful being that God had created and Lucifer started thinking he was better than God his creator, pride was Lucifer's down fall. Instead of being thankful Lucifer was not.
There are some things that can never be forgiven and I believe what Lucifer did is that which can never be forgiven.
There are some things that can never be forgiven and I believe what Lucifer did is that which can never be forgiven.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Excellent observation sister. :)
We just take it for granted when Lucifer lost the war he led with 1/3rd of the angels and was cast out of heaven to earth, that was that. I've not seen the subject broached from a sin perspective before. Well done.
What's curious in the aftermath of that fall to earth is when we find Lucifer/Satan, or ha Satan, cannot do anything without God's permission. (Job 1)
Another curious thing in the post war era is, why did God let Lucifer and those angels who obeyed him to live after they lost the war?
Only to let them vex humans on earth.
Thank you but that didn't answer my question though. :/
So does that mean that he blasphemed the Holy Spirit?
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I’m sure this has all been covered before. The book of Revelation tells us exactly what God will do to that ancient serpent called the Devil and Satan. He and the other angels that rebelled with him will be cast into the lake of fire forever. So...there is NO repentance for the devil, but this is not because he committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit like humans can.
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historyb
Well-Known Member
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Check out Chapter 29, page 419...The Origin of Evil. It'll give you some food for thought.
The Great Controversy by E.G. White..pdf
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Free will?
After the war God sealed the good angels that fought Lucifer and his army so that they would remain in obedience to God.
1 Timothy 5:21
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The reason he sinned was free will. At the end, only those who willfully are overcomers and righteous and holy will be there. And that is the way they will remain. There will be no one there who could sin again.
Satan doesn't have the capacity to repent. That is given by God.
WaterSong
Well-Known Member
Answers and then come new questions. Good thread so far. :)
We read of Satan visiting God in heaven on occasion. He even conferred with God prior to testing Job's faith. Satan couldn't do anything to Job without God's permission. Why would God, having that relationship still with him after the fall from heaven after the war, not allow Satan to repent?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Not wanting to derail A_R's thread but to answer this question I must ask, who was the witness or the reporter in heaven that recorded this conversation with God?
I must also ask, does Satan need to ask God for permission before he carries out his evil plans on Earth?....and, do God and Satan really have this sort of ongoing relationship? ....is God complicate to the evil perpetrated on Earth?
Hmmm, ok.....this is not funny if these things are true.....which I don't think they are.
The Hebrews loved a good story; they were story tellers and told stories to convey lessons. They never asked, 'is this a true story?' in the sense of, is it factual as we might mean/ask. If you ask a Jew this question they will say, 'of course it's a true story' in the same sense we would understand let's say the story of 'The boy who cried, 'wolf'. The factual aspect is irrelevant, it's not even in the picture....what is important is the lesson it conveys. In that sense it is true even if the details were just a fabrication. Jesus did this when he told the story of the rich man and Lazarus to make a point.....the point being, 'if they don't believe the scriptures they won't believe even if a miracle is done'. He was not giving us a lesson on the state of the dead.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Hi QT,
I think God does have a reign on Satan, otherwise Satan would have killed off mankind.
One verse I love is 1 John 5:18. We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.
Cristo Rei
Well-Known Member
There was no sin until Lucifer, that's why God had to cast him out along with his demons...
Pride... That is Satan's favourite sin.
Now that is a tough question... The more i think about it the more i think God would forgive him if he truly repented from the heart...
How about hate, its a sin, right... Then is it a sin to hate Satan???
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand this concern for a being that has caused untold misery. The devil is purely evil. He kills, steals and destroys. He is a liar and the father of lies. He is THE enemy! (It really isn’t the Democrats.)
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. Am I the only person posting in this thread who is glad that he will be cast into the lake of fire forever??
BTW, to answer the title question, how could Satan have sinned, sin is rebellion against God. The devil “sinned” when he rebelled. I’m not sure if this answers the question, and I’m not sure why this question, or similar ones, keep being asked. What’s the point?
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels. Am I the only person posting in this thread who is glad that he will be cast into the lake of fire forever??
BTW, to answer the title question, how could Satan have sinned, sin is rebellion against God. The devil “sinned” when he rebelled. I’m not sure if this answers the question, and I’m not sure why this question, or similar ones, keep being asked. What’s the point?
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How could Satan have sinned?
But also you need to define what sin is. A sin is anything which a person does that causes upset, hurt, loss, distress, pain, or unhappiness to anyone else. It's effectively the opposite of love. For example, to steal is a sin because it causes someone to be upset, and maybe distressed, and very likely unhappy. But the opposite of stealing is to give someone a free gift that will make that person happy, and feel loved. Love is the opposite of sin, and sin is the opposite of love. "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16).
So has Satan done something that has caused upset, distress, loss, pain or unhappiness to anyone? You bet! The apostle John said, "the devil sinneth from the beginning" (1 John 3:8) and Jesus said that Satan "was a murderer from the beginning, ... he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44). Satan lied to Eve (on the earth), and look where that has led us!
I'd say that he didn't sin in heaven; he sinned when he was on the earth.
But also you need to define what sin is. A sin is anything which a person does that causes upset, hurt, loss, distress, pain, or unhappiness to anyone else. It's effectively the opposite of love. For example, to steal is a sin because it causes someone to be upset, and maybe distressed, and very likely unhappy. But the opposite of stealing is to give someone a free gift that will make that person happy, and feel loved. Love is the opposite of sin, and sin is the opposite of love. "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16).
So has Satan done something that has caused upset, distress, loss, pain or unhappiness to anyone? You bet! The apostle John said, "the devil sinneth from the beginning" (1 John 3:8) and Jesus said that Satan "was a murderer from the beginning, ... he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44). Satan lied to Eve (on the earth), and look where that has led us!
Hi Prayer Warrior,
In another post you asked if it was okay to hate Satan, as hate is a sin. This is something I have asked myself several times. God already has His plan laid out and nothing will change it so...Satan and his minions who have caused nothing BUT turmoil for so many will not be saved IMHO. And no, you are not the only one who will be glad to see all that evil cast into the lake of fire! The Word say's we are not to take pleasure in another's downfall yet, Satan's fate is already been spoken by God and I for one, will be so joyous when he is taken out as, there is nothing good in him and, he has killed, stole and destroyed so many and, still does!
As far as Satan sinning? Angels seem to have free will to choose also?
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Hi, I don’t believe I asked if it’s okay to hate Satan. I really don’t think about it. I despise everything rotten he stands for, and I fight him everyday as I intercede for myself, my family, other Christians, the lost, and my country....
Of course He does. Otherwise, explain why he always eventually has to flee at the mention of the name Jesus Christ?
These seem to be the best answers so far and aren't we all called to hate what is evil?
You're not alone in your feelings but how can I (or anybody else on this forum) learn if we never ask questions. That's what this forum is about.
Never mind, I already answered this above.
Is hate a sin? Note Malachi 1:2,3 - “Wasn’t Esau Jacob’s brother?” says Yahweh, “Yet I loved Jacob; but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness”. So has God sinned? (See the quote from Romans 9 below for the apostle Paul's answer.) Just hating someone is not a sin, although actions performed out of hatred for somebody might well be.
From Romans 9 (WEB):
13) Even as it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14) What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? May it never be!
15) For he said to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16) So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy.
17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I caused you to be raised up, that I might show in you my power, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
18) So then, he has mercy on whom he desires, and he hardens whom he desires.
19) You will say then to me, “Why does he still find fault? For who withstands his will?”
20) But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed ask him who formed it, “Why did you make me like this?”
21) Or hasn’t the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel for honor, and another for dishonor?
22) What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23) and that he might make known the riches of his glory on vessels of mercy, which he prepared beforehand for glory,
24) us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?
So perhaps our attitude towards Satan should be like God's. We should endure with patience, knowing that God has destruction prepared for Satan.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
This may answer your question:
Here is a difference in Bible translations:
King James Version:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.
New American Standard Bible:
22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be answerable to the court.
I, among others, have noticed that modern versions leave out crucial information.
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