How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

[Bruce-Leiter]

That's very true.
And when this truth that God Draws us all to Himself.... becomes..>>"no, He only draws the pre-destined, pre-chosen", then the Devil's lie has arrived to try to deny the Cross.

Here is The Cross........

JESUS SAID... "If i be lifted up (on The Cross), then, I will DRAW (HolySpirit)= ALL (men) (everyone) to MYSELF"..

There is Satanic THEOLOGY that denies that TRUTH, as it teaches that Jesus does not DRAW "ALL" but that He only calls the "predestine, pre-chosen" before they were born.

That is a SATANIC Lie, a "doctrine of Devils"/

Why are you so angry at people like me who believe and interpret Scripture a little differently from you so much that you put your condemnation in bold, large font, Behold? Why? Can't you just engage in a good, loving, rational discussion without throwing such accusations at us? A principle of the Bible is for us to speak the truth in love. Your responses are not that, respectfully.

 

[Behold]

Why are you so angry at people like me who believe and interpret Scripture a little differently from you

Im not angry with you.
Im adamantly and purposely against doctrine that denies the Cross, and tries to deceive real Believers, INTO that deceived mind.

Listen, im here well over 3 Yrs.
Im on every Christian forum, or have been......for a long time, and my posts my Threads, teach Pauling Theology,, as their #1 reason to exist, and the 2nd is to highlight and expose "doctrines of devils" so that people who are not yet mentally infected with these theologies, might be kept from them.., and kept from the people who teach these "doctrines of devils".

See, when i talk to you, and RonaldNolette and RitaJanice, and Arthur81, and Brightframe, and the several others... on my "Anti- TULIP" Threads.. im not really working to get you delivered, as that is nearly impossible when TULIP owns a mind..
However by talking with people like you.. Disciples of Calvin, .... these Threads and Posts, are read by people who are not yet fallen into the spiritual darkness that is demonic TULIP..."the 5 points" and so, its for THEM... .its to protect THEM.. is what im doing.. is the work im doing here.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

However by talking with people like you.. Disciples of Calvin, .... these Threads and Posts, are read by people who are not yet fallen into the spiritual darkness that is demonic TULIP..."the 5 points" and so, its for THEM... .its to protect THEM.. is what im doing.. is the work im doing here.

People certainly need teaching that exposes the false doctrines of calvin's people... as well as Luther's people... and let's not forget people need to be taught that catholik doctrines is false doctrine too.

 

[Behold]

People certainly need teaching that exposes the false doctrines of calvin's people... as well as Luther's people... and let's not forget people need to be taught that catholik doctrines is false doctrine too.

Im not a Catholic, but i love many Catholics.
I have been very blessed by reading some of the Bios, of many "Catholic Saints", and have found that by sitting aside their "Mary Obsession" and their "water baptism obsession".. If i just peered deeply into these "old Saints" relationship with God, then ive often found a real inner connection with/to some of them......
However, Some of the core "cult of mary" doctrine is offensive to the Cross.

Im not a disciple of M. Luther... and so, sometimes His "catholicism" is offensive to the NT...but his "Justification by faith", theology, is based on Paul.. so, thats PERFECT>

Hyper Calvinism, is the most offense "pretend christian theology" because it insults God's Mercy, and it denies the Cross., which makes it the enemy of the Cross.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

Im not angry with you.
Im adamantly and purposely against doctrine that denies the Cross, and tries to deceive real Believers, INTO that deceived mind.

Listen, im here well over 3 Yrs.
Im on every Christian forum, or have been......for a long time, and my posts my Threads, teach Pauling Theology,, as their #1 reason to exist, and the 2nd is to highlight and expose "doctrines of devils" so that people who are not yet mentally infected with these theologies, might be kept from them.., and kept from the people who teach these "doctrines of devils".

See, when i talk to you, and RonaldNolette and RitaJanice, and Arthur81, and Brightframe, and the several others... on my "Anti- TULIP" Threads.. im not really working to get you delivered, as that is nearly impossible when TULIP owns a mind..
However by talking with people like you.. Disciples of Calvin, .... these Threads and Posts, are read by people who are not yet fallen into the spiritual darkness that is demonic TULIP..."the 5 points" and so, its for THEM... .its to protect THEM.. is what im doing.. is the work im doing here.

What I've been trying to tell you, Behold, is that we do not deny the cross; we uphold the salvation that Jesus brought us through both his death and his resurrection. Why do you think Calvinists "deny the cross"?

I categorically deny that Calvinists have "doctrines of devils." Your charge is false; prove it specifically.

I'm afraid that you are fighting a false battle, when you could be fighting against the devil himself, for our enemies are not people but the devil and the demons (Ephesians 6:10-20), and our weapon is primarily the Word of God and prayer, as Paul says in that passage.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

People certainly need teaching that exposes the false doctrines of calvin's people... as well as Luther's people... and let's not forget people need to be taught that catholik doctrines is false doctrine too.

So we need to be the Bible's people, but the closest doctrines that I've found to the Bible's truths are in the Reformed or Calvinistic theology.

 

[Behold]

What I've been trying to tell you, Behold, is that we do not deny the cross;

If you are the only Calvinist, on ChristianityBoard.... who does not teach that "only the predestined" can Believe in Jesus, are Chosen to Believe.... then that would be excellent.
As the other Calvinist's ive named, do not state that they are Hyper-Calvinists, and they all argue till they are tired from their yelling that God chooses only the ELECT, to be able to trust in Christ and become a Christian.

Im not aware @Bruce-Leiter .... that you believe differently, but if you do, then you are in disagreement with all these other Calvinists on the Forum, that ive named.

 

[marks]

You are correct in all that you say, but it's human self-centeredness (sin) that prevents people from accepting the genuine offer.

Specifically, men choose to keep their sin:

John 3:19-21 KJV
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

God could give everyone the new birth, which is his free gift, but he doesn't. We can't give it to ourselves, since we are born dead to God and slaves of Satan (see Ephesians 2:1-3). It's God who resurrects us to new life through faith by grace (Ephesians 2:4-9), not us. The result is good works which God has prepared for us to do (Ephesians 2:10).

Echoeing your words, what you say here is true, however, the invitation is able to be accepted by all, exactly as it is proferred in the Bible.

Those who believe, receiving Jesus, these are the ones to whom the Father gives rebirth. God's purpose is that Jesus have many brothers (Romans 8), and that we love as Jesus loves us, that we love God from our hearts. God is gathering a family of those who from their own heart choose to love Him. And His invitation is give to all, and His desire is that all be in His family, but only those who are willing.

Yes, we accept his gift, but he draws us to himself (John_6:44--"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."), so we have nothing at all to brag about.

"And if I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to Myself." The cross changed things.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

So we need to be the Bible's people, but the closest doctrines that I've found to the Bible's truths are in the Reformed or Calvinistic theology.

Why dont you stop being a follower of man made doctrines, and instead do this..

Paul Said.. "be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ"..
And that is not a suggestion, and its not a mistranslation.

See, Paul's Doctrine was given to Him by JESUS..
Its came to Paul from Jesus.. PERSONALLY Delivered.
Paul's Doctrine is not man made......its God delivered.

And when someone says....well, "Calvinism" or "insert your man made doctrine _______________/////

Then that is Man MADE and you can name the man that Made it.

 

[Bruce-Leiter]

If you are the only Calvinist, on ChristianityBoard.... who does not teach that "only the predestined" can Believe in Jesus, are Chosen to Believe.... then that would be excellent.
As the other Calvinist's ive named, do not state that they are Hyper-Calvinists, and they all argue till they are tired from their yelling that God chooses only the ELECT, to be able to trust in Christ and become a Christian.

Im not aware @Bruce-Leiter .... that you believe differently, but if you do, then you are in disagreement with all these other Calvinists on the Forum, that ive named.

Of course, I believe what Paul says clearly that only the predestined can believe in Jesus.

Specifically, men choose to keep their sin:

John 3:19-21 KJV
19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Echoeing your words, what you say here is true, however, the invitation is able to be accepted by all, exactly as it is proferred in the Bible.

Those who believe, receiving Jesus, these are the ones to whom the Father gives rebirth. God's purpose is that Jesus have many brothers (Romans 8), and that we love as Jesus loves us, that we love God from our hearts. God is gathering a family of those who from their own heart choose to love Him. And His invitation is give to all, and His desire is that all be in His family, but only those who are willing.


"And if I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men to Myself." The cross changed things.

Much love!

So, are you saying that believers can brag about their choice to believe in Jesus, because they were able to do it? Read Ephesians 2:1-10. We can't brag about our faith because God enables us to come alive and trust in Jesus through faith by grace.

 

[marks]

So, are you saying that believers can brag about their choice to believe in Jesus, because they were able to do it?

No, and putting words into my mouth, or misrepresenting my words, will prove to be one of the quick ways to shut down conversation.

Much love!

 

[GodsGrace]

This one we are addressing, is very confused.
And He is completely dedicated to his theological confusion.

Most of the time, what he posts, .. similar to Episkops.........sounds like Greek talking Chinese.

Its just.>>"what are talking about" ?!!??!!.. and if you ask them....>>>"who taught you that". ."what is your ?Church"..

You get "crickets".. Silence....>NO ANSWER as they dont want you to know.

I remember when Epi was telling me over and over..>>>>"The CROSS is not about Forgiveness"....

So, christian forums are so inundated with anything and everything except simple NT Truth.

Oh yeeaaah.
What IS the cross about??
IF NOT forgiveness.
It's good to read Exodus 12 every now and then...

 

[marks]

Read Ephesians 2:1-10. We can't brag about our faith because God enables us to come alive and trust in Jesus through faith by grace.

Yes, let's do that. Here's the germain portion:

Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Not that we boast of our faith, that's foolishness, just the same, the boasting referenced in this passage is over the supposed works we would do to earn our salvation.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Of course, I believe what Paul says clearly that only the predestined can believe in Jesus.

Calvin teaches, that Paul teaches that........... However, Paul does not teach that.

Paul and John teach that "whosoever" will believe.. "ALL" may believe. Just as Jesus said.

That is John 3:16

Calvin denies John 3:16, and predestines what God does not predestine, as that is one of Lies of Calvinism

You are selling Calvin's theology, and claiming its Pauls.

All Calvinists do this...

 

[GodsGrace]

You are correct in all that you say, but it's human self-centeredness (sin) that prevents people from accepting the genuine offer.

Which offer would that be Bruce?
I don't see any offers in Calvin's Institutes or in any of the Confessions.

Maybe you could expound.

God could give everyone the new birth, which is his free gift, but he doesn't. We can't give it to ourselves, since we are born dead to God and slaves of Satan (see Ephesians 2:1-3). It's God who resurrects us to new life through faith by grace (Ephesians 2:4-9), not us. The result is good works which God has prepared for us to do (Ephesians 2:10).

Oh. I do think you've hit a nail on the head.
I'm just a little worried you might really mean something different.
Just to confirm:
You stated we are SAVED BY FAITH.
By God's grace.

But what does NOT US mean??

Do WE have to come to have faith in God or not?
Ephesians, the very scripture you posted, DOES state that we are saved by faith.
John says that we will be saved if we believe.
Paul says we are saved if we call Jesus' name.

Is this what you meant?

Yes, we accept his gift, but he draws us to himself (John_6:44--"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day."), so we have nothing at all to brag about.

So true.
And it's so loving of God to draw ALL MEN to Himself.
John 12:32
32“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”

It's so loving of Him to want ALL MEN to be saved...
1 Timothy 2:4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Behold]

So, are you saying that believers can brag about their choice to believe in Jesus,

Its "By Grace you are saved, not of works, lest any person will boast".. "Its the gift of of God'. = THE GRACE

So, its the Calvinist who is the pride filled boaster, who likes to boast that """"im one of the elect.. im special..""""

But you're not special.......you were this.>>>"All have sinned, there is none righteous, no not one"..

And that is everyone.......all the same...

And Jesus said..>>"ALL who believe in Me.....i give unto you... Eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell, (Perish).


Calvin said...>"No Jesus, you are wrong.. as only the elect can believe.. so, dont Lie to people...Jesus, and tell them that your salvation is a Free Gift to ALL who will believe".. As Paul Teaches.

Calvinism teaches that Jesus is a Liar, and that God is a Tyrant Psychopath who wont allow some to believe, which chooses them to go to Hell.

 

[Behold]

Oh yeeaaah.
What IS the cross about??
IF NOT forgiveness.
It's good to read Exodus 12 every now and then...

Yes.

God can't give spiritual birth, unless our sin is forgiven, first..... as God JOINS Himself Spiritually to us, .. but not until our SIN is forgiven.

God does not join Himself to SIN... so, if the Cross does not deal with our SIN, when we place OUR FAITH IN CHRIST.. then what does?

So, Jesus is our Sin Bearer, and we are the "made righteous", "NEW Creation, in Christ".. ."Behold, all things have become NEW.. .and Old things are passed away"..

Like our "old man of sin, that is crucified with Christ", and the LAW that can no longer define use as a SINNER>

"All things have become NEW" for the "New CREATION>. IN Christ".

SEE, its NEW RULES, in the KOG. and we are born again there.......its all NEW,....

And to "work out your Salvation".. is to learn everything you are become, as a "new Creation" "in Christ".

When you have learned it, You are this Paul said..>>>"As many as be Perfect" and that is how you "work out your Salvation"..

Calvinism is designed to deceive you out of the TRUTH, that is to understand, NT Doctrine.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course, I believe what Paul says clearly that only the predestined can believe in Jesus.

Could you please use scripture when making a statement.
Where in the NT does it state that only the predestinated can believe in Jesus?

John, who spent over 3 years with Jesus says this:
John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

WHOEVER believes in Jesus can be saved.

And HOW is one saved: Paul has the answer....
Acts 16:31
29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before Paul and Silas,
30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved,

BELIEVE
Believe happens to be an action word.
WE must BELIEVE,,,take that action....in order to be saved.

NOWHERE in the NT does it state that we're to do NOTHING because God will do it all
and we just sit and wait for this to happen.

If you know of a verse, please post it.

So, are you saying that believers can brag about their choice to believe in Jesus, because they were able to do it? Read Ephesians 2:1-10. We can't brag about our faith because God enables us to come alive and trust in Jesus through faith by grace.

Yes Bruce....
I have the ability to say YES to God.
He does not believe in forcing persons to love Him.
I doubt YOU would like someone to be forced to love you....
all the more GOD, who is love itself.
Love must be given freely or it is NOT LOVE at all.

We are told to seek God so that He may be found.

Matthew 6:33
33But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Hebrews 11:6
And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.


Would you be able to explain the above 2 verses using your theology?
Thanks.

(or are you just going to throw 2 verses back at me because you cannot?)

 

[GodsGrace]

YOU titled the OP "How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism"? Well I do not know most of Calvins teachings, but teh five points are believed because they are firmly entrenched in the bible.

If you are afraid of the boogey man of being a former RCC. YOu have to toss most of the reformers out the door.

RCC rejects the five points of Calvinism. that should be a clue.

Concerning the five points, they are the only alternative to the five points of Jacob Armenios, which the members of the Calvinist church responded to at the Council of Dort!

If you care to look you will see that the RCC is far more closer to Arminianism that to the five points of Calvin as these five biblical points have been dubbed!

Since you brought up the CC, let me say this....
The CC NEVER taught predestination.
Augustine, loved by John Calvin and mentioned thousands of times in his sermons....
is the one person that taught predestination AND WHICH EVEN THE CC DENIES to this day.
Augustine was born in the 5th century. That would be 400 years AFTER Jesus.
So, if you want to agree with Augustine,,,,a manachaen gnostic believer that converted to Christianity and took his gnostic beliefs with him...you are certainly entitled.

But the CC is CORRECT in not believing in predestination.

As also does no other denomination exept for the reformed....this is because GOD IS NOT PROPERLY REPRESENTED IN CALVINISM.
It teaches not only a different gospel because THERE IS NO GOSPEL in calvinism....but it teaches a DIFFERENT GOD since the God of Calvinism is NOT the God of the bible.

The CC is far closer to Arminianism because CALVINISM IS FALSE and even the CC cannot accept what it teaches.

 

[Behold]

GOD IS NOT PROPERLY REPRESENTED IN CALVINISM.
It teaches not only a different gospel because THERE IS NO GOSPEL in calvinism....but it teaches a DIFFERENT GOD since the God of Calvinism is NOT the God of the bible.

Amen.