How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[amigo de christo]

The bible says "Friendship with the world is enmity with God." This doesn't mean to be unloving, unkind and ungenerous to people of the world (as some will accuse) - of course not, we are to love even our enemies. But it means we are to be separate from the world and not unequally yoked (at one) with it:

2Co 6:14-18

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.



Being separate from the world is a necessary part of holiness. Separated out from the world unto God. (And notice that this scripture calls unbelievers unrighteous, not righteous.)

Exactly sister .

 

[Episkopos]

again you assume wrong . I have long remined folks what the cross means .
I am just doubling down on all reminders to believe in HIM , cause the false social gospel is at work .
THE CROSS has no effect , the power of CHRIST is not in one , WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN HE ALONE FOR SALVATION .
THAT is the part YOU MESS UP big time . but as i said i know the inclusive mindset .
I did actually read a book on it . AND if i had not been in the library when i read that book
I would have burned it . BUT you cant burn private property of the library .

Always test a warm bottle on your arm before putting it to your lips. Lips are very sensitive.

 

[rockytopva]

Father Superior explains how to become dead to self @27:00 in the video below…

 

[Lizbeth]

You are conflating my maturity with a claim to be perfect. You can't take away from my experience and what I learned and what that has produced in me. I have not claimed to be perfect...your slander comes from defending the AM walk by your religious outer man who thrives in unbelief and rebellion against God and His ways...and His servants.

I went to the trouble of explaining what I'm seeing to help you go to God and pray for HIS confirmation. If you want to go around in circles for your remaining years...go ahead. Not many are going to walk with God. And you will have decided that that is not for you..as most will.

But I'm saying to you...you are misrepresenting the gospel. The lower walk is at an OT standard of growing and growing and studying and studying line upon line and precept upon precept...but without coming to the knowledge of the truth.

Always learning....

Not slandering anyone, Episkopos, just bringing the word of God. Which we need to bring our thoughts captive to, not going beyond what is written.

I've said many times that I agree with the necessity of growing and maturing and going on to perfection, and heeding the warnings of scripture. We are not to rest on our laurels at whatever stage of growth we happen to be at. Paul didn't, and in that scripture was exhorting others not to. So I would counsel us all to keep growing and learning, and being open to God's correction and tweeking. Having spiritual experiences and walking in the spirit is a separate thing from understanding and having our doctrine all correct.

 

[Lizbeth]

So Paul wrote the word of God while not in the spirit?

Wow. Just wow

That is unfortunately just Epi wresting the word of God to try and make it fit his doctrine.

 

[Episkopos]

Not slandering anyone, Episkopos, just bringing the word of God. Which we need to bring our thoughts captive to, not going beyond what is written.

Call me Epi for short. Amen...not beyond what is written...but also not LIMITING what is written and filtering that through a carnally religious mind. Wouldn't you agree? If we are afraid to go beyond the limits of sinful flesh....then we will never arrive at abiding in Christ. Wouldn't you agree...if relunctantly???

I've said many times that I agree with the necessity of growing and maturing and going on to perfection, and heeding the warnings of scripture.

Like being poor, naked, wretched, and blind? OK

We are not to rest on our laurels at whatever stage of growth we happen to be at.

I fully agree. We are never so established that we can think we have arrived at where God wants us...

Paul didn't, and in that scripture was exhorting others not to. So I would counsel us all to keep growing and learning, and being open to God's correction and tweeking.

Sure Although I think you missed the level that Paul was speaking at.

Having spiritual experiences and walking in the spirit is a separate thing from understanding and having our doctrine all correct.

Yes. Doctrine becomes important when trying to teach others...and discernment to know which doctrine applies to which situation.

 

[Lizbeth]

I'll use your above comments as an example. It says Paul was not perfect and that he had not attained....but he also says as many who are INDEED perfect...IOW greater than Paul...at least at that time. So you are missing Paul distinguishing between his own lack of perfection with the perfection of others. And you miss that fully and completely. Some HAD indeed attained

Nay brother, I'm afraid you are wresting this to make it fit what you believe. Paul was telling those who WERE PERFECT to be of the SAME MIND as he, ie, not to consider that they had attained. Therefore he could not have been saying he hadn't attained only because he wasn't "perfect" at the time he wrote it.

 

[Episkopos]

That is unfortunately just Epi wresting the word of God to try and make it fit his doctrine.

Moses, are you right? Are you not doing that very thing by diminishing Paul on the one hand with me...then raising him up as an idol to support someone who thinks Paul was always perfect?

Do you see how your own logical fallacies show a motive in you that uses lies and obfuscations to prop up the ego?

I can see your religious outer man at work...self-justifying...but you can't see yourself at all. You assume you are MUCH further ahead than you are.

Go to the cross. repent from iniquity. Buy the eye salve from the Lord that will make you actually see.

Do it....while there is still time. Seek the Lord while He may be found.

 

[Episkopos]

Nay brother, I'm afraid you are wresting this to make it fit what you believe. Paul was telling those who WERE PERFECT to be of the SAME MIND as he, ie, not to consider that they had attained. Therefore he could not have been saying he hadn't attained only because he wasn't "perfect" at the time he wrote it.

A logical fallacy. The perfect are called that because they have attained. Why do you twist around the bible to fit your doctrine?

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Don't confuse the perfection of abiding in Christ with a human maturity.

 

[Lizbeth]

Moses, are you right? Are you not doing that very thing by diminishing Paul on the one hand with me...then raising him up as an idol to support someone who thinks Paul was always perfect?

Do you see how your own logical fallacies show a motive in you that uses lies and obfuscations to prop up the ego?

I can see your religious outer man at work...self-justifying...but you can't see yourself at all. You assume you are MUCH further ahead than you are.

Go to the cross. repent from iniquity. Buy the eye salve from the Lord that will make you actually see.

Do it....while there is still time. Seek the Lord while He may be found.

You have a tremendous great need to defend and protect yourself, brother. That needs to go to the cross and be healed. We all have areas of our heart, or maybe it's really what is at the roots of our life, as I think of it, that needs to open up to God and experience His love and salvation. I think most of us have let Him in "thus far and no further" in a way. Truly I bear you no ill will. Praying for you. With God all things are possible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Poor you. So naive. Paul himself says sometimes...not the Spirit ...but I say.

Because you only have a religious grasp of things ...that's like a child who hears for the first time their parents are just as human as they are as in ...what...my parents also get tummy aches????

all scripture is inspired By God

Paul did not write anythign while not in the spirit. Period.

Please stop with your sarcasm.. Its time to stick with the word

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A logical fallacy. The perfect are called that because they have attained. Why do you twist around the bible to fit your doctrine?

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Don't confuse the perfection of abiding in Christ with a human maturity.

The perfect are perfect because God made them perfect based on the cross.

Not because they have obtained.. No one but Christ obtained that..

 

[amigo de christo]

Always test a warm bottle on your arm before putting it to your lips. Lips are very sensitive.

Yeah and as far as lips are concerned the lips of pope francis are very dangerous .
Hot foods and liquids can sure burn the lips on that we do agree
but if one believes the doctrine of francis and the social gospel it preaches
a whole lot more than just the lips will burn at the end . Thank you for that reminder my friend . you
can rest peaceful that i will for sure test the temp of any bottle before i put it to my mouth
BE SURE and DO THE SAME . FOR if a man eats of or drinks of the trough pope francis and the all inclusive
religion do preach , as i said earlier , THEY gonna burn more than lips or tongue my friend .
And man i wont want that end for anyone .

 

[amigo de christo]

But what do i know , to the socially progressive ever learning generation
i am but a dim wit that can at best struggle through books like see spot run .
Rather odd though . The one thing i can for sure
say about this progressive ever learning social all inclusive generation is
NOT that they dont know many things , but rather what they know will never lead them to the actual truth .
Ever learning , but never able to come to the truth . Rather odd indeed .
I can see many in that camp which always can use words like gas lighting or etc
Yet know not they are the ones guilty of what they accuse the other of doing .
As i said they sure know a lot of words and a lot about many things
But so much of what they know just aint right at all . talk about an over educated generation .
For it knows much , but it sure cannot see nor understand the simple truth .

 

[amigo de christo]

Not slandering anyone, Episkopos, just bringing the word of God. Which we need to bring our thoughts captive to, not going beyond what is written.

I've said many times that I agree with the necessity of growing and maturing and going on to perfection, and heeding the warnings of scripture. We are not to rest on our laurels at whatever stage of growth we happen to be at. Paul didn't, and in that scripture was exhorting others not to. So I would counsel us all to keep growing and learning, and being open to God's correction and tweeking. Having spiritual experiences and walking in the spirit is a separate thing from understanding and having our doctrine all correct.

He accuses us all of slander . no worries dear sister . I know you dont slander any . YOu just desire what is good for him as do I .
PREACH JESUS TILL THE END .

 

[amigo de christo]

The perfect are perfect because God made them perfect based on the cross.

Not because they have obtained.. No one but Christ brained that..

SING THAT SONG TO THE END my friend . WE POINT to CHRIST for righteousness
and heed not the social gospel which points us to obtaining righteousness by our own merits .
YOU SING the SONG OF CHRIST and HIS GLORIOUS GOSPEL till there simply is no breath left in your lungs .
AND THEN WE SHALL SING IT TOGETHER FOREVER IN THE CITY OF OUR GOD . TILL the last breath POINT TO CHRIST .

 

[amigo de christo]

You have a tremendous great need to defend and protect yourself, brother. That needs to go to the cross and be healed. We all have areas of our heart, or maybe it's really what is at the roots of our life, as I think of it, that needs to open up to God and experience His love and salvation. I think most of us have let Him in "thus far and no further" in a way. Truly I bear you no ill will. Praying for you. With God all things are possible.

Who then can be SAVED . GOD HAS MADE THE WAY TO BE SAVED . WITH HIM this is possible . ITS IN CHRIST JESUS .
THE answer , BELIEVE YE IN HIM and you will be saved .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is unfortunately just Epi wresting the word of God to try and make it fit his doctrine.

Sad but true dear sister . sad for him . POINT TO CHRIST TILL THE LAST BREATH .

 

[Lizbeth]

A logical fallacy. The perfect are called that because they have attained. Why do you twist around the bible to fit your doctrine?

You are barking up the wrong tree.

Don't confuse the perfection of abiding in Christ with a human maturity.

The spiritually mature are not to consider that they have attained brother. That is very clear and very simply said in that scripture. And if anyone is truly mature (perfect) that is the mind they will have, since that is the mind that would be indicative of their maturity.

 

[APAK]

You have a tremendous great need to defend and protect yourself, brother. That needs to go to the cross and be healed. We all have areas of our heart, or maybe it's really what is at the roots of our life, as I think of it, that needs to open up to God and experience His love and salvation. I think most of us have let Him in "thus far and no further" in a way. Truly I bear you no ill will. Praying for you. With God all things are possible.

I too do not wish any ill-will towards you Epi. And @Episkopos ....I actually agree with Lizbeth in main, concerning the area of the 'calling' of Paul. And I believe I'm not taking any sides here. It is what I read and believe. Let me go on my simple commentary of that area that may turn into a rant...

First, the English translation from the Greek into 'High calling' is in err. It is really the 'Upward calling.' And this is meant to mean for a believer that we have been resurrected out of death as Christ died and we can be resurrected as him. And now we need to demonstrate it and not just claim it as you said from scripture. We much show it in our lives. And Paul is describing his spiritual not human experience/knowledge with his mature or ever maturing walk in Christ in the process. He claims it all through living it!

I think this is what Paul is describing about this 'calling' 'the race' and the 'prize'...all symbols and metaphors he uses to truly gain and experience the mature life or walk in Christ and to 'win' or amaze Christ with his/our naked genuine faith of having God within us through the Son, the Father being the righteousness for Christ (I'm being a Unitarian here) and let him know that we know our righteousness is IN him, our Savior, and he then 'sees' clearly our own loss of life through our heart, mind and actions in life. We are now living the 'from death (loss of self and life with open heart) to the glorious resurrection life as in completing a marathon race. And I incidentally believe that is the type of race Paul intended here. And why you may ask....

It's like when we are first reborn, we begin the race, we become accustomed to the running track or path, the environment, the other racers, our physical condition as we run, where the winds are coming from, how moist or dry it is, and the condition of the track or path underfoot. Many believers do not want to go too far and they prematurely stop and rest, some too long, some rationalize that they are in this race for life and they think they will not show or place so why rush....they do not have the mind and heart set for God's race, they hide in scripture and claim all the legal benefits they now have as you have spoken of and it's true with a lot of new believers....some believers will want to stay at a 'comfortable' pace all their lives and with expectations of barely making the finish line. They are spiritually out of shape, fat, out of breath and not dedicated, not realizing their lives are not their own anymore, and they do not own it. They miss the reason why God accepted them in Christ... in the 'first' place.

Now for Paul and even me and it seems like you Epi and many other dedicated for God, we believers want to gain and use all the spiritual knowledge and the advise and gather it all like a sponge from God (you call it the full measure of grace' I do not at all as this can really confuse the intended use of the term grace) and really tear up the tracks and place with a prize.

Paul is speaking of this special calling for maturing believers who are becoming seasoned runners of marathons. This is their life now 'marathons/marathoners for life in Christ.' Keep the slogan...it can be catchy. When they or me or you, every time we 'hit the wall' at around the 16 mile mark with 7 miles to go, we know that focus, concentration of the things of God is everything. We lose our lives again, become small and insignificant, and all we see is the glory of God and the Spirit of Christ we embed within ourselves, to be raised in glory once we get past 'the wall' into the home stretch.

This dedication and willingness to lose everything in life, as death to the flesh, and things of the world and even more dearer things for Christ with the righteousness of the Father (Being a Unitarian again) is their/our walk until death. We have no choice. It is not a lower or higher walk. It is a more rigorous technical and mature walk that some growing believers sooner or later embark upon. They keep 'winning' Christ every time.

Although they can never perfect this kind of walk (race) ...yet.....

I hope you got the gist of all this..Epi and Lizbeth

It was done seriously impromptu

(Php 3:12) Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
(Php 3:13) Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
(Php 3:14) I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
(Php 3:15) Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
(Php 3:16) Only let us hold true to what we have attained. (ESV)


Blessings to you both and all that love our life in Christ and for Christ as we bear fruit for him in our walk. And the Father is very pleased indeed (being a Unitarian once again)