How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Keturah]

Say what.... Some here need not post but spend the time on the Internet on their knees in prayer. Ask of God for it is HE WE ARE TO OBEY, RATHER THAN MAN. Jesus has all the answers to ignorance by lack of knowledge therefore be careful that you don't perish !

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Good or bad

The good works are Gold silver precious stone

the bad works are wood hay and straw

Paul is saying whoever stands in front of Christ on hat day, If all he left shown for all his works done after he was saved is ashes. He will still be saved, even as through fire..

Good deeds will not be rewarded as wood hey and straw

How is that not what Paul is saying in “I suffered the loss of all things” to win Christ, to be found in found His image and not my own?

What is dung if it isn’t the hay and stubble? Which He referred to as all things glorying in the flesh …giving examples of what he could boast of. Read it again
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

 

[Lizbeth]

“If ANY man shall be burned, he will suffer loss: but he himself will be saved; yet so by fire.”

We suggest this is the filth of the earth at the end who “suffer loss” —not our being in that verse “as those who suffer loss” but others(which is the doctrine that squabbles loss in the first place)—when the end comes and they go into the fire and see what is burnt up unto ashes (while shouting “He gives us beauty for ashes!!) … (maybe not you have said this but that is what I’ve heard). This going through the fire which burns up and they will stand …way in the future …them sinners rejectors not us…no not us…and weep for all that loss. Explain then being saved by fire?

To me Paul is a perfect example given of that one verse. “If any man will be burned, (I also burn which we turn into something sexual like a burning with passion to have sex) …he will suffer loss) BUT he himself will be saved; yet so by fire. Philippians 3:4-8 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [5] Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [6] Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss (burnt) of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
^^he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (He shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved (the Lord delivered me out of every persecution, and delivered me out of the lions mouth walking around seeking whom he might devour) he himself will be save “plucked out of the teeth of the lion” all parts out of the lions mouth will Christ take, yet as by Christ ( I baptize you with fire).

Need to be careful of always assuming that the same or similar words and phrases are referring to the same thing. "If any man's work be burned..." is talking about believers. We know that because of the context....of building on the foundation of Christ....except if the work be burned up they were building with wood, hay and stubble, not with fire-proof precious stones etc that were forged in fire. The same fire that tested the work I believe is the fire that they are going through when their works are being burned up ("yet so as by fire"). They are saved because they are believers..... even though their works for the Lord did not meet His standards (being of the flesh, not spirit, not based on sound doctrine, etc.)

Where Paul wrote about he experiencing the loss of all things, he was not talking about his labours/works for the Lord after becoming a believer and apostle, he is talking about what he possessed in the natural man before knowing Christ. He has lost all the position and standing, reputation, and I assume the living he made from those things, that he had before knowing the Lord.

Similar phrases but we're seeing two entirely different ideas being brought across.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Say what.... Some here need not post but spend the time on the Internet on their knees in pray. Ask of God for it is HE WE ARE TO OBEY, RATHER THAN MAN. Jesus has all the answers to ignorance by lack of knowledge therefore be careful that you don't perish !
View attachment 31421

I get it. Everyone that doesn’t fall into order …anyone that doesn’t fall in line…is way beneath. Yet it is “a free gift” that I have chosen and you haven’t. Praise God!?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Need to be careful of always assuming that the same or similar words and phrases are referring to the same thing. "If any man's work be burned..." is talking about believers. We know that because of the context....of building on the foundation of Christ....except if the work be burned up they were building with wood, hay and stubble, not with fire-proof precious stones etc that were forged in fire. The same fire that tested the work I believe is the fire that they are going through when their works are being burned up ("yet so as by fire"). They are saved because they are believers..... even though their works for the Lord did not meet His standards (being of the flesh, not spirit, not based on sound doctrine, etc.)

Where Paul wrote about he experiencing the loss of all things, he was not talking about his labours/works for the Lord after becoming a believer and apostle, he is talking about what he possessed in the natural man before knowing Christ. He has lost all the position and standing, reputation, and I assume the living he made from those things, that he had before knowing the Lord.

Similar phrases but we're seeing two entirely different ideas being brought across.

I’m not the ones squalling over any loss.

What concerns me the most is it being said there is none.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

that were forged in fire

. “Forged in the fire”

“I suffered the loss of all things” to win Christ.

“He will suffer loss; but he himself saved by fire”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Need to be careful of always assuming that the same or similar words and phrases are referring to the same thing. "If any man's work be burned..." is talking about believers. We know that because of the context....of building on the foundation of Christ....except if the work be burned up they were building with wood, hay and stubble, not with fire-proof precious stones etc that were forged in fire. The same fire that tested the work I believe is the fire that they are going through when their works are being burned up ("yet so as by fire"). They are saved because they are believers..... even though their works for the Lord did not meet His standards (being of the flesh, not spirit, not based on sound doctrine, etc.)

This I agree with.

Where Paul wrote about he experiencing the loss of all things, he was not talking about his labours/works for the Lord after becoming a believer and apostle, he is talking about what he possessed in the natural man before knowing Christ. He has lost all the position and standing, reputation, and I assume the living he made from those things, that he had before knowing the Lord.

Similar phrases but we're seeing two entirely different ideas being brought across.

This too what you said about Paul. But how are they not connected to the one who suffers loss but saved by fire…his referring to the loss of all things—-which you named some saying before as a natural man —-is this not the same as the hay, wood, and stubble and what is burned? Is it wrong to suggest or read what Paul spoke of to suffer the loss as exactly what that passages speaks of also?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This I agree with.

This too what you said about Paul. But how are they not connected to the one who suffers loss but saved by fire…his referring to the loss of all things—-which you named some saying before as a natural man —-is this not the same as the hay, wood, and stubble and what is burned? Is it wrong to suggest or read what Paul spoke of to suffer the loss as exactly what that passages speaks of also?

That is what I’m trying to say. I don’t get why it is wrong to relate Paul’s words of having suffered the loss of all things to the 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If you can clarify why I would appreciate it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

what did they suffer the loss of all things?
you mean the suffered loss not having all things in Him.

The suffered loss of eternal reward. This is at the end, on judgment day. after the ressurection.

Gods wants to reward us for work done here. Gold silver and precious stone.

But if our work does not endure. it will suffer loss and that reward will be left in ashes.

So by fire they are saved but never matured to bear fruit or to gain all things in Him?

They gained all things.. They lost eternal reward for bearing fruit..

I see what you mean they have been baptized by the fire,

The only people who will be baptized in fire are those who are found guilty at the great white throne judgment, when God baptised them into the eternal life. that shall never be quenched.

baptized with the baptism of Christ.

That's how we are saved

Yet brought no fruit to maturity in Him.

correct

see, you say it isn't based off their works but His. Yet, they loss having never fully matured (doing what exactly) never possessed all things in Him.

Salvation was not based off their works. the rewards for good work is based of their works..

They are two different things

if someone is not born again, they will not recieve gold silver precious stone or wood hay and straw. they will reciever outer darkness, because they failed to repent and come to Christ

The problem with many we see is they mix up positional sanctification (in Christ) with conditional sanctification (spiritual maturity) and try to say that one depends on the other. that is not true..

ps. epi does not believe in progressive conditional sanctification. so it makes sense that you are doing the same thing he does.

what happened to God does it? What happened to it is God who gives the increase? Then why does the child (Babe) of God lack?

Faith. Faith that grows him

there is faith in the gospel which saved

then their is faith in my daily life as I learn to grow in him

Paul said the corinthian church had to be fed milk, because they were babes.. So this is not an unknown category of believers whi have not grown much

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The suffered loss of eternal reward. This is at the end, on judgment day. after the ressurection.

Gods wants to reward us for work done here. Gold silver and precious stone.

But if our work does not endure. it will suffer loss and that reward will be left in ashes.

They gained all things.. They lost eternal reward for bearing fruit..

The only people who will be baptized in fire are those who are found guilty at the great white throne judgment, when God baptised them into the eternal life. that shall never be quenched.

That's how we are saved


correct

Salvation was not based off their works. the rewards for good work is based of their works..

They are two different things

if someone is not born again, they will not recieve gold silver precious stone or wood hay and straw. they will reciever outer darkness, because they failed to repent and come to Christ

The problem with many we see is they mix up positional sanctification (in Christ) with conditional sanctification (spiritual maturity) and try to say that one depends on the other. that is not true..

ps. epi does not believe in progressive conditional sanctification. so it makes sense that you are doing the same thing he does.



Faith. Faith that grows him

there is faith in the gospel which saved

then their is faith in my daily life as I learn to grow in him

Paul said the corinthian church had to be fed milk, because they were babes.. So this is not an unknown category of believers whi have not grown much

Ok

 

[Keturah]

I get it. Everyone that doesn’t fall into order …anyone that doesn’t fall in line…is way beneath. Yet it is “a free gift” that I have chosen and you haven’t. Praise God!?

A muddle of mass confusion is what I read. A double-minded one tossed on the waves overcome by one more well versed in twitchery.

I am blood bought, I have repented & confessed @ the cross my sins, I Am a Jesus trusting born again by the Spirit child of God ! I follow Christ Jesus & his Father's words.

I do not see the study in the Spirit with his guidance to light the way but trust in what others say & ones own head knowledge. Instead of recognizing TRUTH!

A mass of confusion when God is NOT the author of that confusion, man is !

Take your life, heart, & mind to Christ.....HE IS THE ANSWER FOR THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

"Yet it is “a free gift” that I have chosen and you haven’t. Praise God!?" What "free gift" have you chosen? The gift of letting another dictate your soul destination by falsehood? The gift of BLINDNESS by choice & rejecting things of the Spirit? The gift of flesh comfort & ones own desire to block the TRUTH.

You are right...whatever " free gift" you've received I don't have & don't want. Jesus paid the penalty of sin @ the cross for ALL WHO WILL BELIEVE, accept him, live by his words & walk in his Spirit....that is God's " free gift" to mankind !

SALVATION; from the bondage of sins, from the power of sins & paid in FULL for the wages of all's sins!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As much as you are concerned for me, I’m also concerned for you. So you do see it is the child of God in 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

What are you concerned with? Think of a man who is in his house. and his house catches fire. and he escapes with nothing but the clothes on his back. all his possessions are lost. yet he himself is saved.

This is the picture paul is trying to convey.

you just disagree with what is loss is dung?

What is lost is eternal. not here on this earth.. Paul had not had his work tried by fire yet. no one has.

Instead potential fruit?
Do i understand you correctly?

No, I am sorry, it does not appear you do.. I see your trying to put this in context of here on earth. This is speaking of an future judgment where our works are tried by fire.. and what we did here on earth in this lifetime is judged by that fire. It is not a fire here on earth or losing things here on earth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is what I’m trying to say. I don’t get why it is wrong to relate Paul’s words of having suffered the loss of all things to the 1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If you can clarify why I would appreciate it.

because 1 cor 3: 15 is talking about a future judgment

Paul is talking about suffering the loss of things here on earth. for the cause of God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How is that not what Paul is saying in “I suffered the loss of all things” to win Christ, to be found in found His image and not my own?

That has nothing to do with 1 cor 3: 15.. It has to do with us after we are born again, Setting aside our needs, desires, our wants, Our status, suffering loss. to be conformed to the image of God while walking this earth.

1 cor 3: 15 is about a judgment day held after those who are born again are ressurected.

What is dung if it isn’t the hay and stubble? Which He referred to as all things glorying in the flesh …giving examples of what he could boast of. Read it again
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

lol.. I am sorry. I do nto see what is so hard to see. If you try to make them the same. then you are totally taking 1 cor out of context...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Yet it is “a free gift” that I have chosen and you haven’t. Praise God!?" What "free gift" have you chosen?

That was not my proclamation that I have chose the gift and you haven’t. That was my repeating what is promoted here. “I have chosen to take the free gift” and “you haven’t”

I truly don’t care if your opinion is you see nothing but a muddled mess. Or that you see me as one tossed about; double minded. I would rather be a muddled mess than bloated up and attributing it to the free gifting of the Holy Spirit.

 

[marks]

How is that not what Paul is saying in “I suffered the loss of all things” to win Christ, to be found in found His image and not my own?

What is dung if it isn’t the hay and stubble? Which He referred to as all things glorying in the flesh …giving examples of what he could boast of. Read it again
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Hi VIJ,

If you look at the context in Philippians, this is what Paul, then Saul, would have thought, what anyone in that day thought, that meant Saul would be righteous. Born of the tribes of Israel, even a Pharisee, blameless under the Law, all the right stuff. But all that stuff was dung compared to God's righteousness. What we do for our own righteousness is dung in light of God's righteousness. So we want to have His righteousness, which is by faith, not who we are, or what we do.

In 1 Corinthians 3, this is speaking about what we do as members in the body of Christ, or more specifically, His living temple. This speaks of those who are His, members of His temple, building on His foundation. If we build with the right things, we will have reward. If we build with the wrong things, we have no reward, the loss is loss of our reward.

All these posts that I read that tear others down are an example of someone building with wood, and hay and stubble. In them there will be no reward.

When I think about these rewards, something really stands out to me. Paul used the words, "even you are my crown of rejoicing at His coming", something like that. Building each other up draws us closer together as we draw closer into Jesus. I hope that my words will help you to know Christ better, and to walk better in His ways, and that your words to me will help me to know Christ better, and to walk in His ways. And what rejoicing we will have in each other, and in Christ, when we see the good things done for each other as we see to fulfill these good works.

Putting our own works aside, so therefore no tearing down, no secret agendas, just honest and loving sharing with each other.

And I remember that Paul spoke of those carnal, those who were building with the wrong things, these were they who were dividing the body, the temple of God.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

The truth always provokes the religious to respond according to their nature. Let's call that...fleshy. I've seen it over and over.

The strategy is...the truth shall set you free. Unless, of course, you hate the truth.

Those who troll on Internet forum never answer questions , have intelligent and respectful dialogues , use ad hominems habitually and are unteachable

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hi VIJ,

If you look at the context in Philippians, this is what Paul, then Saul, would have thought, what anyone in that day thought, that meant Saul would be righteous. Born of the tribes of Israel, even a Pharisee, blameless under the Law, all the right stuff. But all that stuff was dung compared to God's righteousness. What we do for our own righteousness is dung in light of God's righteousness. So we want to have His righteousness, which is by faith, not who we are, or what we do.

In 1 Corinthians 3, this is speaking about what we do as members in the body of Christ, or more specifically, His living temple. This speaks of those who are His, members of His temple, building on His foundation. If we build with the right things, we will have reward. If we build with the wrong things, we have no reward, the loss is loss of our reward.

All these posts that I read that tear others down are an example of someone building with wood, and hay and stubble. In them there will be no reward.

When I think about these rewards, something really stands out to me. Paul used the words, "even you are my crown of rejoicing at His coming", something like that. Building each other up draws us closer together as we draw closer into Jesus. I hope that my words will help you to know Christ better, and to walk better in His ways, and that your words to me will help me to know Christ better, and to walk in His ways. And what rejoicing we will have in each other, and in Christ, when we see the good things done for each other as we see to fulfill these good works.

Putting our own works aside, so therefore no tearing down, no secret agendas, just honest and loving sharing with each other.

And I remember that Paul spoke of those carnal, those who were building with the wrong things, these were they who were dividing the body, the temple of God.

Much love!

Still see it as connecting. Considering they have already had their reward. Still see Paul suffering the loss of all things was giving up the reward (he counted as dung) in all the doctrines, and study’s and degrees and prestige of being the best stock and a Pharisee. Another is Moses
Hebrews 11:24-27 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; [25] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; [26] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures(dung) in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. [27] By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

So I truly do not see how Paul suffered the loss of all things …has nothing to do with “he will suffer loss; but he himself save by fire” unless I’m mistaken the only reason it is said paul doesn’t fit their in “he will will suffer loss” “yet be saved by fire”… is because what is being lost is eternal rewards and NOT the rewards Moses forsook of Egypt “esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the dung”

Unless I misunderstood Paul’s loosing all things can’t be connected because then…it isn’t no skimping by based off our good works that we will receive rewards for but instead a “loss of all things” where the reward in Christ is the same for everyone receiving it. Not a merit system.

 

[Keturah]

Thanks @marks 4 the reminder. I deleted my emoji.

@VictoryinJesus plz forgive my remarks.

 

[marks]

Still see it as connecting. Considering they have already had their reward. Still see Paul suffering the loss of all things was giving up the reward (he counted as dung) in all the doctrines, and study’s and degrees and prestige of being the best stock and a Pharisee. Another is Moses
Hebrews 11:24-27 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; [25] Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; [26] Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures(dung) in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. [27] By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

So I truly do not see how Paul suffered the loss of all things …has nothing to do with “he will suffer loss; but he himself save by fire” unless I’m mistaken the only reason it is said paul doesn’t fit their in “he will will suffer loss” “yet be saved by fire”… is because what is being lost is eternal rewards and NOT the rewards Moses forsook of Egypt “esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the dung”

Unless I misunderstood Paul’s loosing all things can’t be connected because then…it isn’t no skimping by based off our good works that we will receive rewards for but instead a “loss of all things” where the reward in Christ is the same for everyone receiving it. Not a merit system.

I think a lot depends on how you see those rewards. If they are the richness of our relationships with each other, and the joy of participation - koinonia - then this, here on earth, we are building those things.

Much love!