How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Lizbeth]

The veil represented what seperated us from God.

Amen! And I believe the veil being torn is speaking of a two-way accomplishment of the cross, since we are also His temple. The veil over our hearts has been torn asunder, circumcising our hearts, which allowed Christ access to the throne and inner sanctum of our hearts, so to speak, and also the veil of the Law that kept worshipers out of the holy of holies has been torn, ie, the curse of the Law no longer stands in our way of entering and approaching the throne of grace, the mercy seat. Christ is in us and we are in Him.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! And I believe the veil being torn is speaking of a two-way accomplishment, since we are also His temple. The veil over our hearts has been torn asunder, circumcising our hearts, which allowed Christ access to the throne and inner sanctum of our hearts, so to speak, and also the veil of the Law that kept worshipers out of the holy of holies has been torn, ie, the curse of the Law no longer stands in our way of entering and approaching the throne of grace, the mercy seat. Christ is in us and we are in Him.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Romans 8:15
For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Lizbeth]

Being dead to sin goes beyond just not doing as the world does. According to the Lord, the religious person can become more sinful even than the world based on pride, judgmentalism, and taking on a mocking spirit. We can take on a false covering. We all have an inner man...and some of us even have been regenerated in the Spirit. But evangelicalism, and the doctrines associated with it, can make it very easy to become puffed up in the outer man. When the outer man gets edified along with the inner man...the result is worse than before.

Whatever is mixed with truth becomes that at the expense of the truth. We can only defend the truth by practicing the truth. There is no mixture permissible in holiness.

Whatever is mixed with the outer man, as pure as that might be, only puffs him up the more. That's why the power of the cross is essential for growth in Christ.

Speaking of false covering...that is the veil that the cross tore in half. We all followed the same pattern as Adam and Eve in the Garden when we first sinned and fell.....we put on a false covering of pride (aprons of fig leaves, kind of a false persona) to cover the shame and fear that came when we first believed/obeyed the voice of the serpent and sinned. That is the unfruitful parts of us the Lord is pruning away...like dead branches of our old man nature which get in the way of the fruitful branches trying to come forth. But Jesus overcame and has pierced through and torn that false covering and took up residence on the throne of our hearts, even though the work of pruning is still ongoing because either the devil being deceived doesn't yet know he's defeated....or maybe rather it's because he is UNABLE to repent, or both.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus to follow up..What do these mean to you, saved from Gods wrath, or no longer as you said fearfully looking for Judgment and fiery indignation..

To me it means no more looking for a fiery adversary of judgment and indignation that will devour all that destroys the way but hoping and looking for, loving His appearance. No more looking for thief coming to take our goods.

Paul spoke of losing all things to win Christ.
To me if there has been a loss of all things to be consumed and destroyed being told it perishes …why fear the fire upon that which is corruptible? Having this Hope in that which is incorruptible? To me that is what makes another the riches and wealth hidden in secret places of the heart, God after the hidden man of the heart. We say God is after the hidden man of our heart? To me God in us is after the inner man in another heart, which IS the hidden man of our heart (His Spirit which is of a great price and precious to God) made manifest; because everyone added unto God is the pearl(His Spirit, His fruit) in building up (edifying) His Kingdom. Not building our own kingdom but His. Adding unto Him. Still to me, God hid the treasure in the one place flesh refuses to go, even spiting at it and persecuting that way… flesh unwilling to go to the one he persecuted. The flesh is weak, but the Spirit is willing.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To me it means no more looking for a fiery adversary of judgment and indignation that will devour all that destroys the way but hoping and looking for, loving His appearance. No more looking for thief coming to take our goods.

Paul spoke of losing all things to win Christ.
To me if there has been a loss of all things to be consumed and destroyed being told it perishes …why fear the fire upon that which is corruptible? Having this Hope in that which is incorruptible? To me that is what makes another the riches and wealth hidden in secret places of the heart, God after the hidden man of the heart. We say God is after the hidden man of our heart? To me God in us is after the inner man in another heart, which IS the hidden man of our heart (His Spirit which is of a great price and precious to God) made manifest; because everyone added unto God is the pearl(His Spirit, His fruit) in building up (edifying) His Kingdom. Not building our own kingdom but His. Adding unto Him. Still to me, God hid the treasure in the one place flesh refuses to go, even spiting at it and persecuting that way… flesh unwilling to go to the one he persecuted. The flesh is weak, but the Spirit is willing.

Say it over and over Paul stood before those persecuting him. Knowing this that God does raise the dead. Paul knew this because he had persecuted the way and stoned Stephen, not only Stephen but also He saw Christ asking “saul, saul, why are you persecuting me?”
“who are you, Lord?”
Paul knew God raised the dead, because he had “experience”.
You want to take about a veil being removed, or taken out of the way; a veil that separates us from God. “Who are you, Lord?” So Paul was familiar when he stood before them calling him a reprobate. But the Spirit of God in Him was willing…knowing God raises the dead. Paul had already been raised experiencing the Life of Christ in him…now I walk by faith and live and breathe and have my being in Him. The dead, the veil removed. Taken out of the way. It was their veil that separated them from God, that withheld fellowship of to love one another. To me Paul knew the power of God within to raise the dead …it was them who He prayed be lifted up.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To me it means no more looking for a fiery adversary of judgment and indignation that will devour all that destroys the way but hoping and looking for, loving His appearance. No more looking for thief coming to take our goods.

Paul spoke of losing all things to win Christ.
To me if there has been a loss of all things to be consumed and destroyed being told it perishes …why fear the fire upon that which is corruptible? Having this Hope in that which is incorruptible? To me that is what makes another the riches and wealth hidden in secret places of the heart, God after the hidden man of the heart. We say God is after the hidden man of our heart? To me God in us is after the inner man in another heart, which IS the hidden man of our heart (His Spirit which is of a great price and precious to God) made manifest; because everyone added unto God is the pearl(His Spirit, His fruit) in building up (edifying) His Kingdom. Not building our own kingdom but His. Adding unto Him. Still to me, God hid the treasure in the one place flesh refuses to go, even spiting at it and persecuting that way… flesh unwilling to go to the one he persecuted. The flesh is weak, but the Spirit is willing.

I am trying to understand this, Are you saying that in order to saved from fire we have to lose all things? I am still confused on that part.

And what is the treasure you speak of that is hidden?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Say it over and over Paul stood before those persecuting him. Knowing this that God does raise the dead. Paul knew this because he had persecuted the way and stoned Stephen, not only Stephen but also He saw Christ asking “saul, saul, why are you persecuting me?”
“who are you, Lord?”
Paul knew God raised the dead, because he had “experience”.
You want to take about a veil being removed, or taken out of the way; a veil that separates us from God. “Who are you, Lord?” So Paul was familiar when he stood before them calling him a reprobate. But the Spirit of God in Him was willing…knowing God raises the dead. Paul had already been raised experiencing the Life of Christ in him…now I walk by faith and live and breathe and have my being in Him. The dead, the veil removed. Taken out of the way. It was their veil that separated them from God, that withheld fellowship of to love one another. To me Paul knew the power of God within to raise the dead …it was them who He prayed be lifted up.

The veil was removed when Christ died. Christ removed the barrier that stood between the father and all mankind. With his death.

The barrier was sin, And through becoming sin for us removed that barrier once and for all.. The only barrier left is unbelief.

He who does not believe is condemned already.. they are dead, and must be born again.

We are born again by looking to the cross in faith. and at that point we are justified. It is through this that the veil is removed..

They called Paul a reprobate because he rejected their religion. and repented that they needed saved also.. Paul could do all things through Christ, and see everything as a momentary light affliction based on the hope that was Given him through the cross,,

The hope of eternal life
The hope through justification
The hope of being reconciled to God.
The hope that he will not suffer Gods wrath.

All these things are what paul based his faith on.. and what he is telling us to base our faith in. this is what gives us peace with God

 

[CadyandZoe]

We can indeed ALWAYS triumph over the flesh..but that takes the power of the cross and walking in the Spirit.

I was with you up and until the sentence I highlighted above. If we can do as you say, there would be NO reason to Reckon ourselves dead to sin. We would always triumph over the flesh because we would indeed be free of sin. I see no Biblical promise that one can ALWAYS triumph over the flesh. If you mean to say that freedom of the will is always available to us, I agree. But I believe Paul's position is that we are constitutionally incapable of ALWAYS triumphing over the flesh.

 

[ChristisGod]

Speaking of false covering...that is the veil that the cross tore in half. We all followed the same pattern as Adam and Eve in the Garden when we first sinned and fell.....we put on a false covering of pride (aprons of fig leaves, kind of a false persona) to cover the shame and fear that came when we first believed/obeyed the voice of the serpent and sinned. That is the unfruitful parts of us the Lord is pruning away...like dead branches of our old man nature which get in the way of the fruitful branches trying to come forth. But Jesus overcame and has pierced through and torn that false covering and took up residence on the throne of our hearts, even though the work of pruning is still ongoing because either the devil being deceived doesn't yet know he's defeated....or maybe rather it's because he is UNABLE to repent, or both.

Amen

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The veil was removed when Christ died. Christ removed the barrier that stood between the father and all mankind. With his death.

The barrier was sin, And through becoming sin for us removed that barrier once and for all.. The only barrier left is unbelief.

He who does not believe is condemned already.. they are dead, and must be born again.

We are born again by looking to the cross in faith. and at that point we are justified. It is through this that the veil is removed..

They called Paul a reprobate because he rejected their religion. and repented that they needed saved also.. Paul could do all things through Christ, and see everything as a momentary light affliction based on the hope that was Given him through the cross,,

The hope of eternal life
The hope through justification
The hope of being reconciled to God.
The hope that he will not suffer Gods wrath.

All these things are what paul based his faith on.. and what he is telling us to base our faith in. this is what gives us peace with God

Since there is no more veil upon hearts. No more blindness “whom the god of this world has blinded” then ….don’t you think there would be more fruit of the Spirit of God?


God is not the author of confusion?

 

[Episkopos]

We can indeed ALWAYS triumph over the flesh..but that takes the power of the cross and walking in the Spirit.

I was with you up and until the sentence I highlighted above. If we can do as you say, there would be NO reason to Reckon ourselves dead to sin. We would always triumph over the flesh because we would indeed be free of sin. I see no Biblical promise that one can ALWAYS triumph over the flesh. If you mean to say that freedom of the will is always available to us, I agree. But I believe Paul's position is that we are constitutionally incapable of ALWAYS triumphing over the flesh.

2 Cor. 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causes us to triumph in Christ, and makes manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since there is no more veil upon hearts. No more blindness “whom the god of this world has blinded” then ….don’t you think there would be more fruit of the Spirit of God?


God is not the author of confusion?

I am not sure where you get this blindness from, this confuses me also.

The veil was the curtain between the most holy place. where the presence of God was. and the Holy Place. where only the priests were. No one could have access to God except once a year when the high priest on the day of atonement would go through the veil and make atonement for the sin of the people.

in other words. Only one person (the high priest) had acces to God. and that person could only have access after he made sacrifice for his sins..

When Jesus died. that barrrier was removed.. No longer did only the high priest have access to God. Everyone one of us can boldly go to the throne room of Grace because the barrier was removed. As paul said in Rom 5 Because we have been justified (the penalty of sin was removed) we now have access to the grace of God. and can approach him..

The veil is removed..

The veil spoken of here is not blindness.

Fruit of the spirit comes from those who are trusting in Christ after they have been born again and are denying their own needs, while serving others..

if one is not born again, their is no fruit of the spirit.. Because they do not have the spirit

 

[ChristisGod]

2 Cor. 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causes us to triumph in Christ, and makes manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

Great verse so whats your point or do you have one ?

Quoting the bible without understanding it are entirely two different things.

Care to explain ?

We who are in the lower realm want to know what those like you in the higher realm (higher walk ) mean.

Please share with all of the crows/ravens/vultures/scavengers/dogs/pigs what you as a soaring eagle are saying ?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

2 Cor. 2:14 Now thanks be unto God, which always causes us to triumph in Christ, and makes manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

he always leads. it does not mean we always follow

if we always followed. we would be sinless

But this is not the case. if we claim we have no sin we are deceived..

 

[ChristisGod]

he always leads. it does not mean we always follow

if we always followed. we would be sinless

But this is not the case. if we claim we have no sin we are deceived..

Jesus is the Great Shepard of the sheep.I reckon a certain Someone(soaring in a higher walk/dimension) thinks they are the Great Shepherd of the sheep lol.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am trying to understand this, Are you saying that in order to saved from fire we have to lose all things? I am still confused on that part.

No. I’m not suggesting to be saved is going to dump all your possessions off at goodwill. “Saved” to me means saved from a mind set
Of terrified to death of losing. Delivered from the destruction or loss of a thief because of God giving that which is incorruptible and sufficient. I mean if you truly see what is perishing and passing away. Best way I can describe it, which might not be the best way is…finding out you only have only a few months to live. How would your perspective change on what is important or valuable? There is a loss there…the taking away or removal of what “isn’t even worth mentioning” ? No? Although we hearing the news of only a few months may send us into a tail-spin of impending dread that causes us to grab all we can before those few months are up.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And what is the treasure you speak of that is hidden?

It is what Stephen saw. Right before being stoned for saying God doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands. Calling it out over and over.

Stephen calling upon God. Stephen didn’t see a mirage. He saw the Glory of God, he saw heaven open, he saw that hidden pearl created after the likeness of God, within the Kingdom of God

Acts 7:55-56 KBut he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, [56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Where was the treasure?
In Saul would be transformed, translated to Paul.
I get you may say no. But that was what Stephen was calling out, before Stephen saw Heaven open, and Christ ruling in the Kingdom of God. He saw what Christ would do, as “standing as King” in the Kingdom of God. Not in temples made with hands. Did what Stephen saw come to be?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No. I’m not suggesting to be saved is going to dump all your possessions off at goodwill. “Saved” to me means saved from a mind set
Of terrified to death of losing. Delivered from the destruction or loss of a thief because of God giving that which is incorruptible and sufficient. I mean if you truly see what is perishing and passing away. Best way I can describe it, which might not be the best way is…finding out you only have only a few months to live. How would your perspective change on what is important or valuable? There is a loss there…the taking away or removal of what “isn’t even worth mentioning” ? No? Although we hearing the news of only a few months may send us into a tail-spin of impending dread that causes us to grab all we can before those few months are up.

So saved is a mind set? Do you mean if I think I am saved I am saved?

I understand not being afraid of death. But is this really what we are saved from? or there more to this?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So saved is a mind set? Do you mean if I think I am saved I am saved?

I understand not being afraid of death. But is this really what we are saved from? or there more to this?

No you are twisting it to prove your point. (Imo) that is what I meant by deflection. I could tell you a long story. I’ve seen loss. And I don’t mean going in a casket. what things I have cared about the most has brought great pain and suffering of what just happened? Not that what I cared about caused the pain and loss but sin. All I can tell you is through it, I have this Hope. I’m not saying I’m unique or the only one who has ever suffered loss, but if we are still nick-picking at do you mean giving up your money, do you mean going in a casket? Do you mean that loss? Are you trying to promote working or trying to earn salvation by being good enough? Then I can’t explain it to you (what I mean) because you already have a formed opinion of what you think I mean.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is what Stephen saw. Right before being stoned for saying God doesn’t dwell in temples made with hands. Calling it out over and over.

Stephen calling upon God. Stephen didn’t see a mirage. He saw the Glory of God, he saw heaven open, he saw that hidden pearl the Kingdom of God

Acts 7:55-56 KBut he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, [56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Where was the treasure
Saul would be transformed, translated to Paul.
I get you may say no. But that was what Stephen was calling out, before Stephen saw Heaven open, and Christ ruling in the Kingdom of God. He saw what Christ would do, as “standing as King” in the Kingdom of God. Not in temples made with hands. Did what he saw come to be?

to me, the knowledge that to be absent from the body is to be present with the lord is the treasure

Having the promise I will never perish, but I will live forever is the treasure

Being adopted as Gods child is the treasure

Being spared from Gods wrath is the treasure

Knowing I will be resurrected By Christ, and not delivered to him for judgment is the treasure.

Having every spiritual blessing, and an inheritance from above that is incorruptible and will never fade away is my treasure.

there are so many things we recieve at the moment of salvation. All of them are treasures immeasurable from the God above