Hidden Mysteries of the Bible

[Ritajanice]

I can prove you wrong with other scripture from the bible if you want. but would you listen? you obviously follow paul, what about Christ do you follow his words?

It’s not about you proving me wrong.
I have just posted the word of God, which states exactly what he says...we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again...that is the word of God.

Human faith is just that, human faith....without supernatural faith/ becoming Born Of The Spirit.....you can’t know God in one’s heart...a Born Again knows God in their heart....because we were chosen and predestined to become saints, before the foundation of the world.
A Born Again can never be taught by a fake believer...they can only be taught by the Holy Spirit.
Mind blowing!!

My sheep know my voice and we do.

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

And those who come to Jesus are the ones the Father gave to Jesus- John 6
The ones who do not believe are the ones who are not drawn by the Father.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day

Jesus also said you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.
And no, I wouldn’t listen to you,I only listen to the Holy Spirit.
Have a nice day.

Sorry Epi, off topic,I will say no more, I’ve made the point clear.God Bless.

 

[LoveYeshua]

It’s not about you proving me wrong.
I have just posted the word of God, which states exactly what he says...we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again...that is the word of God.

Human faith is just that, human faith....without supernatural faith/ becoming Born Of The Spirit.....you can’t know God in one’s heart...a Born Again knows God in their heart....because we were chosen and predestined to become saints, before the foundation of the world.
A Born Again can never be taught by a fake believer...they can only be taught by the Holy Spirit.
Mind blowing!!

My sheep know my voice and we do.

In the same way that repentance is granted by God (Acts 11:18; 2 Tim. 2:25), faith is also a supernatural gift of God. Ephesians 2:8–9 affirms this: “By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

Jesus also said you must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.
And no, I wouldn’t listen to you,I only listen to the Holy Spirit.
Have a nice day.

Sorry Epi, off topic,I will say no more, I’ve made the point clear.God Bless.

here are some verses that say we have a choice to make;

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (NIV): "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him."
Joshua 24:15 (NIV): "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
Proverbs 1:29-31 (NIV): "Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke. They will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes."

I have made my point also from scripture, now choose well what to believe.

Please do not apologize to EPI, he started this thread but it belongs to everyone who participated. you owe him nothing.

Blessings.

 

[Episkopos]

here are some verses that say we have a choice to make;

Deuteronomy 30:19-20 (NIV): "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him."
Joshua 24:15 (NIV): "But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."
Proverbs 1:29-31 (NIV): "Since they hated knowledge and did not choose to fear the LORD, they would not accept my advice and spurned my rebuke. They will eat the fruit of their ways and be filled with the fruit of their schemes."

I have made my point also from scripture, now choose well what to believe.

Please do not apologize to EPI, he started this thread but it belongs to everyone who participated. you owe him nothing.

Blessings.

Part of the mystery that is in Christ is that seemingly contrary things are held together IN Him. Most cannot fathom it. Things like eternal life and temporal life...brought into oneness in Christ. So we walk in BOTH kinds of life at the same time IN Christ. Jesus brings both realms, spiritual and material into one walk in Him.

As for predestination or free will? It is both.

We are to work out for ourselves our own salvation AND it is God who works in us to fulfill His will. Both. Who is doing the work? Both. It is a synergy...a divine dance, relationship, intimacy.

Notice the dialectical nature of the truth...

Phil. 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Both God and man working together to reach the goal of God in Christ.

What I defend is the spiritual nature of the calling that is in Christ. One cannot seek for a future kingdom. One can only seek for a spiritual realm that is concurrent with our temporal world. The things that are seen are temporal, the things that are unseen are eternal. Both at the same time. The bible doesn't say, the things that are unseen are not yet in existence. And no one can seek for a kingdom that has not yet come into being or has not been made available.

 

[amigo de christo]

I can prove you wrong with other scripture from the bible if you want. but would you listen? you obviously follow paul, what about Christ do you follow his words?

Actually paul followed Christ . Every word them apostels left us in the bible
is meat for our soul . Everything they left us is meat for our soul . James did not contradict paul , paul did not contradict james
or peter or john or the author of hebrews Nor did any preach a different gospel .
The thing is men who lacked understanding pitted paul against james
or came up with one gospel to the jews and another to the gentiles . Men did that .
men invented doctrines and saw in the scrips , which they twisted , their own hearts desire . and you can bet
that hearts desire was not FOR GOD but rather for self . Many love sin my friend .
And while they might warn against other sins , THEY WILL BUILD A WALL , a false foundation
and use doctrine to justify THEIR OWN SIN .

 

[LoveYeshua]

Actually paul followed Christ . Every word them apostels left us in the bible
is meat for our soul . Everything they left us is meat for our soul . James did not contradict paul , paul did not contradict james
or peter or john or the author of hebrews Nor did any preach a different gospel .
The thing is men who lacked understanding pitted paul against james
or came up with one gospel to the jews and another to the gentiles . Men did that .
men invented doctrines and saw in the scrips , which they twisted , their own hearts desire . and you can bet
that hearts desire was not FOR GOD but rather for self . Many love sin my friend .
And while they might warn against other sins , THEY WILL BUILD A WALL , a false foundation
and use doctrine to justify THEIR OWN SIN .

maybe I understand things that you do not.

 

[Lizbeth]

The real ever present danger is reading the bible and thinking a person has the power to understand it theologically. What is meant to be spiritually understood is then hijacked by carnal people who change the meaning of the text and use it to both justify themselves and bash other people with...including condemning the righteous. What carnal religious people do is read themselves into the text that actually condemns them. Many will say Lord Lord...

Many will name and claim all kinds of preposterous things based on a superficial reading of the bible. But judgment is coming. God is giving so many enough rope to hang themselves with it. And these will not listen to reason, sense or truth. Once a person gets the idea into their head where they see themselves as the subject of every good sounding text....the condemnation doesn't tarry too long.

Until then, I expose the lies and reprove all the vain babblings, the assumptions and presumptions... by reasoning and explaining things in a way that any lover of truth would understand. I do this as a servant of God by commandment...doing for others what I would want to be done to me if I was the ungrateful and pig-headed one. :)

Your assumption and presumption is that everyone who disagrees with you on anything is because they must be guilty of those things.

You don't teach in the same vein as the apostles............unfortunately you have a theology that is not founded on, and found in, their teachings.

 

[Lizbeth]

Sorry..it’s biblical,

​

◄ Ephesians 1 ►

​

Berean Standard Bible Par ▾ Paul’s Greeting to the Ephesians (Acts 19:8–12; Revelation 2:1–7) 1Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints in Ephesus,a the faithful in Christ Jesus: 2Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Spiritual Blessings (Romans 8:28–34) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8that He lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory. Spiritual Wisdom (1 Corinthians 2:6–16) 15For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in your knowledge of Him. 18I ask that the eyes of your heartb may be enlightened, so that you may know the hope of His calling, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, 19and the surpassing greatness of His power to us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of His mighty strength, 20which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms, 21far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, 23which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

I believe he may be particularly talking about the early church in Romans there, especially the first Jewish believers.....alluding to them being God's "chosen" people who were called/chosen out of the world. As firstfruits who would then take the gospel to the rest of the world...Gentiles/nations. But we are all chosen/elect "according to the foreknowledge of God" the bible says (1Peter 1:2). It's hard to imagine what it would be like knowing how everything and everyone would be before it happens, but it seems to be according to His foreknowledge of us, knowing ahead of time whether we would respond to the gospel or harden our hearts against it.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe he may be particularly talking about the early church in Romans there, especially the first Jewish believers.....alluding to them being God's "chosen" people who were called/chosen out of the world. As firstfruits who would then take the gospel to the rest of the world...Gentiles/nations. But we are all chosen/elect "according to the foreknowledge of God" the bible says (1Peter 1:2). It's hard to imagine what it would be like knowing how everything and everyone would be before it happens, but it seems to be according to His foreknowledge of us, knowing ahead of time whether we would respond to the gospel or harden our hearts against it.

Thanks for voicing your opinion / belief @Lizbeth .

I disagree, as you can see of said scripture , that I posted further up...I too voiced my opinion.i can’t go against what I believe I received by divine heart revelation.

I did not choose to become Born Again.,the Lord chose me, having never read a Bible...

You believe in freewill, no problem , I don’t understand any of that..my will was imo, was under the will of God, he chose me/ others, to Glorify Jesus, to be made into his image..,to be a representative for Jesus, that is my belief 100%....chosen / predestined before the foundation of the world.
.
A Born Again should Glorify the Father...not bring dishonour to his Name, imo.

The Lord’s Approved Workman

14Remind the believers of these things, charging them before Goda to avoid quarreling over words, which succeeds only in leading the listeners to ruin.

15Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, an unashamed workman who accurately handles the word of truth.

16But avoid irreverent, empty chatter, which will only lead to more ungodliness,17and the talk of such men will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have deviated from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already occurred, and they undermine the faith of some.

19Nevertheless, God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,”b and, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord must turn away from iniquity.”

20A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use. 21So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit,c he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work.

22Flee from youthful passions and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, together with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23But reject foolish and ignorant speculation, for you know that it breeds quarreling. 24And a servant of the Lord must not be quarrelsome, but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, and forbearing. 25He must gently reprove those who oppose him, in the hope that God may grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth. 26Then they will come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, who has taken them captive to his will.

 

[Lizbeth]

I like you more and more at every post.

Oh no credit to me...if I'm doing well and on a roll, it is all thanks to God, believe me. And if I lay an egg now and then, that is all on me. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Your assumption and presumption is that everyone who disagrees with you on anything is because they must be guilty of those things.

I have no assumptions or presumptions. You are trying to figure me out with a limited carnal mind. It is in trying to avoid the truth that you turn to your mind for answers...trying to find bible verses to fit your objection to the truth. You will NEVER admit to anything that takes down your outer man religious presumptions. I know your ego will not allow any admission on your part to having been bested by a better understanding. I realize that any progress anyone will make will be in private....away from any admission of foolhardiness...until much later. And that's fine. I only want to see the truth triumph over the lies that are indoctrinated into those who are still operating in the futility of their own minds, as theologically sound as that might appear to be. A lie must be agreed to to have any power over the individual...or church group.

You don't teach in the same vein as the apostles............unfortunately you have a theology that is not founded on, and found in, their teachings.

I teach from the very same Spirit. But you would have to have the testimony of Christ to know that.

You have settled for a head-faith. You rail against my heart-faith. Your outer religious man is yet uncrucified...so you want to confront my inner man teachings,

I used to be carnal as well...so I know where you are coming from. The more you rail against the truth, the more embedded you become in your religious certainties. Better to turn from all futility right now....than be exposed as having taken refuge in something other than Christ in Spirit and truth. Concepts fail when tested.

 

[Ritajanice]

I teach from the very same Spirit. But you would have to have the testimony of Christ to know that.

You have settled for a head-faith. You rail against my heart-faith. Your outer religious man is yet uncrucified...so you want to confront my inner man teachings,

I agree with this..but, I’m not referring to Lizbeth.

I now ,know 100% heart faith imo, it’s supernatural , only God can open the heart and mind, to understand heart faith...imo.

Head faith is the old man thinking...only God can set us free from head faith, which is pointless , unedifying / carnal, imo..it needs to be crucified, die it’s death...

Let God reign in our hearts, it’s the only way.

 

[Lizbeth]

Thanks for voicing your opinion / belief @Lizbeth .

I disagree, as you can see of said scripture , that I posted further up...I too voiced my opinion.i can’t go against what I believe I received by divine heart revelation.

I did not choose to become Born Again.,the Lord chose me, having never read a Bible...

You believe in freewill, no problem , I don’t understand any of that..my will was imo, was under the will of God, he chose me/ others, to Glorify Jesus, to be made into his image..,to be a representative for Jesus, that is my belief 100%....chosen / predestined before the foundation of the world.
.
A Born Again should Glorify the Father...not bring dishonour to his Name, imo.

I don't disagree, Jesus said you did not choose me, I chose you.......but then what do we do with election being according to His foreknowledge? I feel like this is one of those things are "hard to be understood" and maybe it's a "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of thing...? Who can fathom the Lord? He is so much higher than we are...who can fathom what it's like to know all things before they come into being? I can't.

 

[Lizbeth]

It is in trying to avoid the truth that you turn to your mind for answers...trying to find bible verses to fit your objection to the truth.

No, that is not how I approach the word of God. That seems to be more your style. I just read it for what it says and look to the Lord to illuminate. That's why I couldn't help but notice your teaching isn't in the same vein as those scrips.

 

[Lizbeth]

Actually paul followed Christ . Every word them apostels left us in the bible
is meat for our soul . Everything they left us is meat for our soul . James did not contradict paul , paul did not contradict james
or peter or john or the author of hebrews Nor did any preach a different gospel .
The thing is men who lacked understanding pitted paul against james
or came up with one gospel to the jews and another to the gentiles . Men did that .
men invented doctrines and saw in the scrips , which they twisted , their own hearts desire . and you can bet
that hearts desire was not FOR GOD but rather for self . Many love sin my friend .
And while they might warn against other sins , THEY WILL BUILD A WALL , a false foundation
and use doctrine to justify THEIR OWN SIN .

Oh my yes. Haven't seen any contradictions with any of their teachings. Paul comes under attack a lot these days.

 

[Lizbeth]

Part of the mystery that is in Christ is that seemingly contrary things are held together IN Him. Most cannot fathom it. Things like eternal life and temporal life...brought into oneness in Christ. So we walk in BOTH kinds of life at the same time IN Christ. Jesus brings both realms, spiritual and material into one walk in Him.

As for predestination or free will? It is both.

We are to work out for ourselves our own salvation AND it is God who works in us to fulfill His will. Both. Who is doing the work? Both. It is a synergy...a divine dance, relationship, intimacy.

Notice the dialectical nature of the truth...

Phil. 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Both God and man working together to reach the goal of God in Christ.

What I defend is the spiritual nature of the calling that is in Christ. One cannot seek for a future kingdom. One can only seek for a spiritual realm that is concurrent with our temporal world. The things that are seen are temporal, the things that are unseen are eternal. Both at the same time. The bible doesn't say, the things that are unseen are not yet in existence. And no one can seek for a kingdom that has not yet come into being or has not been made available.

I agree with this post up to part of the last paragraph......we are seeking for what is both present as well as future (from our temporal point of view - because does what is eternal really have a past, present and future?) "Who hopes for what he already has."......and we are "reaching for what lies ahead".

 

[Laurina]

You don't teach in the same vein as the apostles............unfortunately you have a theology that is not founded on, and found in, their teachings.

This is a groundless accusation without any scriptural support. Care to share any scriptural support??
From what spirit does this accusation come from??

 

[Laurina]

I agree with this post up to part of the last paragraph......we are seeking for what is both present as well as future

It is impossible to seek for the future. That is a recipe for inactivity and disobedience. Do you think that "seek first the kingdom" means seek later, (or no need to seek now)?
Do you hate the idea of having to seek God, as Epi says?? Is that your motivation? Will you deny it?

When is it time to seek the Lord?? Past, present, or future??

 

[Lizbeth]

Part of the mystery that is in Christ is that seemingly contrary things are held together IN Him. Most cannot fathom it. Things like eternal life and temporal life...brought into oneness in Christ. So we walk in BOTH kinds of life at the same time IN Christ. Jesus brings both realms, spiritual and material into one walk in Him.

As for predestination or free will? It is both.

We are to work out for ourselves our own salvation AND it is God who works in us to fulfill His will. Both. Who is doing the work? Both. It is a synergy...a divine dance, relationship, intimacy.

Notice the dialectical nature of the truth...

Phil. 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Both God and man working together to reach the goal of God in Christ.

What I defend is the spiritual nature of the calling that is in Christ. One cannot seek for a future kingdom. One can only seek for a spiritual realm that is concurrent with our temporal world. The things that are seen are temporal, the things that are unseen are eternal. Both at the same time. The bible doesn't say, the things that are unseen are not yet in existence. And no one can seek for a kingdom that has not yet come into being or has not been made available.

You know it occurred to me.....maybe it will help.........if you can see paradox as mentioned in your post here, why can't you see the paradox in how even though we have already been made righteous and holy through the cross, that we also need to seek righteousness and holiness? And even though we have been translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of God we are to also seek it? And how like the Israelites, even though the land of promise and rest has already been given into our hands.....we also need to conquer and possess it? It's the same principle.

 

[Lizbeth]

This is a groundless accusation without any scriptural support. Care to share any scriptural support??
From what spirit does this accusation come from??

The apostles taught in this vein: from what we have already received.....that we are to seek as it were, what we have already received through Christ, that is, to seek to walk in what we have received. For example, "how can we who have died to sin walk in it any longer". We have died to sin, our old man has been crucified, yet we are on a journey of dying to these things. Paradox.

 

[Lizbeth]

Do you think that "seek first the kingdom" means seek later, (or no need to seek now)?

No that is not what I think.

Do you hate the idea of having to seek God, as Epi says?? Is that your motivation? Will you deny it?

Yes I do deny hating the idea of seeking God.

When is it time to seek the Lord?? Past, present, or future??

We are to seek Him now.........reaching for what lies ahead. And seeking for immortality...do we have it yet? I suppose yes and no....paradox.