Heresy within Christianity

[Yehren]

As you said, Darwin did believe in the Creator and he gave a theory about how He might have done it. I think that Christians who believe in evolution plus Bible are closer in a sense to Darwin than they are to modern atheistic evolutionists who will not consider any kind of creation by a Creator.

Here's a modern evolutionist:

Francis Collins, physician, geneticist, former director of the Human Genome Project, currently the director of the National Institutes of Health. A confirmed evolutionist. And an evangelical Christian.

Can I test you with a question?
Why did Jesus came and die on the cross?

Disobedience to God's commands. The first two humans God granted immortal souls disobeyed him, becoming like Him in knowing good and evil, but unable to be truly good. That required a Redeemer, who would take on the consequences of our sins, and through Him, give us a path to salvation and fellowship with God.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Jesus Died Crucified

 

[Yehren]

You have to get off the Darwin thing....it is nothing to your credit. You are facing modern science now.
Darwin is to modern evolutionary science as Giovanni Fontana is to modern motorcycles.

It is true that Darwinism, as Darwin proposed it, had some flaws, mainly in his understanding of heredity. But his four basic points of evolutionary theory remain as solid now as when they were first written.

 

[Yehren]

As you said, Darwin did believe in the Creator and he gave a theory about how He might have done it. I think that Christians who believe in evolution plus Bible are closer in a sense to Darwin than they are to modern atheistic evolutionists who will not consider any kind of creation by a Creator.

I'm thinking of Richard Dawkins, who seems actively hostile to religion, (while admitting that a creator is possible). He seems to have, like some creationists, confused his hostility with rational thinking.

Compare to Stephen Gould, who while a professed agnostic, once speculated that maybe we exist because someone wanted others to share it all with.

 

[Grailhunter]

It is true that Darwinism, as Darwin proposed it, had some flaws, mainly in his understanding of heredity. But his four basic points of evolutionary theory remain as solid now as when they were first written.

Think what you want of Darwin but modern science has it nailed down without a doubt.

 

[Paul Christensen]

You have to get off the Darwin thing....it is nothing to your credit. You are facing modern science now.
Darwin is to modern evolutionary science as Giovanni Fontana is to modern motorcycles.

Modern evolutionary science is atheistic, and Christians who believe in it are denying the Bible and the God who wrote it. It will just suck to be them in the Judgment when God will ask them, "Why did you not believe Me when I told you the truth?"

There was one lady listening to a liberal theology preacher talk about Genesis 1-11 as just myths. After hearing the sermon, she went and asked the preacher, "At what point does God start speaking the truth?"

 

[Paul Christensen]

Here's a modern evolutionist:

Francis Collins, physician, geneticist, former director of the Human Genome Project, currently the director of the National Institutes of Health. A confirmed evolutionist. And an evangelical Christian.



Disobedience to God's commands. The first two humans God granted immortal souls disobeyed him, becoming like Him in knowing good and evil, but unable to be truly good. That required a Redeemer, who would take on the consequences of our sins, and through Him, give us a path to salvation and fellowship with God.
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Jesus Died Crucified

Not all evangelical Christians believe the Bible as literal fact. It is true that many evangelicals are embracing the Pope and Islam as worshiping the same God as "our brothers in the faith". How do we know that this fellow is not one of them?

 

[Paul Christensen]

I'm thinking of Richard Dawkins, who seems actively hostile to religion, (while admitting that a creator is possible). He seems to have, like some creationists, confused his hostility with rational thinking.

Compare to Stephen Gould, who while a professed agnostic, once speculated that maybe we exist because someone wanted others to share it all with.

Both of them refuse to include a Creator who brought the universe into being and set up the world and anything in it.
So I don't care how qualified and intelligent they are, they can add nothing to my foundation, because they are on an atheistic foundation in their world view.

 

[Yehren]

Both of them refuse to include a Creator who brought the universe into being and set up the world and anything in it.

Well, Gould's position was "maybe so." So is Dawkins', really, but he's so hostile to belief that he has hard time admitting it.

 

[Grailhunter]

Modern evolutionary science is atheistic, and Christians who believe in it are denying the Bible and the God who wrote it. It will just suck to be them in the Judgment when God will ask them, "Why did you not believe Me when I told you the truth?"

There was one lady listening to a liberal theology preacher talk about Genesis 1-11 as just myths. After hearing the sermon, she went and asked the preacher, "At what point does God start speaking the truth?"

I don't know, it maybe a sin to be stupid. I am a firm believer that stupid kills...I think I can come up with historical examples of that and Christ's parable of talents may indicate that being stupid is a sin.

You are pulling your information from the oldest part of the Jewish Bible and at that it existed as oral tradition for centuries. So much so that they put both stories of creation there. They have been debating that and trying to harmonize those two stories for centuries and some scholars see the Jewish creation story as being borrowed from older cultures.

It is all irrelevant because Christ warned about trying to mingle Judaism and Christianity. If you want to be a Jew...just do it.

 

[Yehren]

Not all evangelical Christians believe the Bible as literal fact. It is true that many evangelicals are embracing the Pope and Islam as worshiping the same God as "our brothers in the faith". How do we know that this fellow is not one of them?

There is that; Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the God of Abraham. But Jews and Muslims don't recognize the Trinity or Jesus as Lord.

But then, Jesus told his followers to emulate a Samaritan rather than a Levite, because the Samaritan loved his fellow man. Do you know who the Samaritans are, and their history? They were despised by Jews.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I don't know, it maybe a sin to be stupid. I am a firm believer that stupid kills...I think I can come up with historical examples of that and Christ's parable of talents may indicate that being stupid is a sin.

You are pulling your information from the oldest part of the Jewish Bible and at that it existed as oral tradition for centuries. So much so that they put both stories of creation there. They have been debating that and trying to harmonize those two stories for centuries and some scholars see the Jewish creation story as being borrowed from older cultures.

It is all irrelevant because Christ warned about trying to mingle Judaism and Christianity. If you want to be a Jew...just do it.

Does this mean that you are a religious humanist?
Why did Christ come and die on the cross?

 

[Paul Christensen]

There is that; Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship the God of Abraham. But Jews and Muslims don't recognize the Trinity or Jesus as Lord.

But then, Jesus told his followers to emulate a Samaritan rather than a Levite, because the Samaritan loved his fellow man. Do you know who the Samaritans are, and their history? They were despised by Jews.

So you are saying that the God of Christians, present day Jews, and Muslims as the same God?

The problem is the Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God, or that He died on the cross for the sins of the world.

So, in the light of that, tell me how they can worship the same God?

 

[Grailhunter]

Does this mean that you are a religious humanist?
Why did Christ come and die on the cross?

Why did Christ come and die on the cross? You do not know?
Does this mean that you are a religious humanist? No. Just smarter than your average bear.
Are you a Jew want to be?

 

[Brakelite]

The issue here is not whether evolution or creationism can be proved out not. It isn't about argument and evidence for one side or the other. The real issue... The real question... Is... Do I believe scripture? Period. If you look at scripture through the eyes of science then science is your final authority on the matter. If you however look at science through the lens of God's word, then your authority is upon the Rock. Jesus affirmed Genesis when He said,
In the beginning God created male and female....
You deny this and you leave yourself completely open to every theory and nutty speculation from every quarter. You now have no defense against transgenderism or homosexuality. You have no defense against anyone claiming that you ought to submit to their authority over your spiritual life now that you reject God's authority.

 

[Yehren]

So you are saying that the God of Christians, present day Jews, and Muslims as the same God?

Yep.

The problem is the Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God, or that He died on the cross for the sins of the world.

Yep. They got that wrong.

So, in the light of that, tell me how they can worship the same God?

Because they worship the God Who spoke to Abraham. They just don't understand some things about him.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Why did Christ come and die on the cross? You do not know?
Does this mean that you are a religious humanist? No. Just smarter than your average bear.
Are you a Jew want to be?

I know why Jesus died on the cross, but I wanted to get your answer, but it seems that you want to avoid answering. Why are you reluctant to commit yourself to a definite personal answer?

 

[Yehren]

The issue here is not whether evolution or creationism can be proved out not. It isn't about argument and evidence for one side or the other. The real issue... The real question... Is... Do I believe scripture? Period.

Rather, it's "Do I believe the creationist Christian interpretation, or the traditional Christian interpretation?"

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yep.



Yep. They got that wrong.



Because they worship the God Who spoke to Abraham. They just don't understand some things about him.

But it was the pre-incarnate Jesus who spoke to Abraham, because the Father is an invisible Spirit not seen by any man. In fact, every appearance and involvement of God in the Old Testament is the pre-incarnate Jesus. Didn't you know that?

The same I AM who spoke to Moses, was the same I AM who said "Before Abraham, I AM", and when Jesus said, "I AM" to the mob who came to arrest Him they all fell backwards under the power of God. So it is clear that Jesus is the I AM of the Old Testament.

This means that present day Jews and Muslims worship of god of their own imagination and not the God of the Bible who was revealed as Jesus Christ who died on the cross of Calvary.

 

[Grailhunter]

I know why Jesus died on the cross, but I wanted to get your answer, but it seems that you want to avoid answering. Why are you reluctant to commit yourself to a definite personal answer?

I am avoiding it. You give me no reason to think you know. So I will give you no opportunity to judge my belief.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I am avoiding it. You give me no reason to think you know. So I will give you no opportunity to judge my belief.

I wasn't going to judge your belief at all! I was just going to follow it up with another question. :-) I'm a nice guy, children and dogs trust me!