Hell Center of the Earth?

[Joseph77]

God hates this myth.

I believe that Jesus taught Reincarnation and that it is Biblical.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Bottomless can also mean Two Dimensional, or a 'Lower Dimension' than our 3D existence.

A Two Dimensional Plane has no up or down direction. Think of a Shadow. Does a Shadow have an up or down?

Note that the 2D Shadow is where Death leads...

Job 10:21
"Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death"

I believe that the Underworld/Pit/Abyss etc. truly has no up or down...

Hey I got a question for you but I need to create a thread for it....it's about the blood.

 

[Base12]

Hey I got a question for you but I need to create a thread for it....it's about the blood.

Awesome. :cool:

 

[Base12]

God hates this myth.

I believe someone is projecting. ;)

 

[Heart2Soul]

I believe someone is projecting. ;)

Ok thread is started....when you can check it out.

 

[Mayflower]

Bottomless can also mean Two Dimensional, or a 'Lower Dimension' than our 3D existence.

A Two Dimensional Plane has no up or down direction. Think of a Shadow. Does a Shadow have an up or down?

Note that the 2D Shadow is where Death leads...

Job 10:21
"Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death"

I believe that the Underworld/Pit/Abyss etc. truly has no up or down...

Very fun video. I think it is a bit "above" me. :) I love the Christian life. God is absolutely amazing and I think we will be learning for eternity.

 

[Mayflower]

Mayflower,

Hades/Hell is described as a place of unquenchable flames (Matt 9:43-48 NIV), yet it is also a place of darkness (Matt 8:12 NIV).

How is it possible to experience unquenchable flames in a place of darkness?

Oz

I believe the hottest in this world is violet in color. I'm sure black fire can exist. Especially in the absense of God.

 

[Timtofly]

Right on. I'm not the debating type either. I'm just happy I can share my opinions with others.

This thread is moving fast. Lots of comments already!

First of all I consider myself a Fundamental Christian with one main difference than most others. That is, I believe that Jesus taught Reincarnation and that it is Biblical. This is a belief that has caused me a lot of grief because many Christians hate that idea, yet after years of trying, they haven't been able to debunk it.

Most Churches, Pastors etc. try and cite this verse as proof Reincarnation is not Biblical...

Hebrews 9:27
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

However, when scrutinized, their interpretation falls apart rather quickly as there are many who have died more than once in the Bible. In addition, Revelation speaks of a Second Death. The verse in fact is saying that for every death, there is a judgement. Nothing more.

Having said that, if you are comfortable exploring Reincarnation as something that Jesus in fact promoted, then I can add some more info to this thread.

I'll just post a few more things about our previous conversation...

The reason why Hell is compared to the Womb is because I believe that Hell is a metaphor for the process of Reincarnation. God shows it as a bad and evil thing because God doesn't want us to come back. God wants us in Heaven.

In addition, I believe that Earth is an extension of Hell in that we are here to 'reap what we have sown' from a previous life. Some people have it worse than others because their lives were more wicked. It's the only way to explain why life is so unfair to some and not others. The Church has never been able to explain that.

Everyone knows that a Loving God would not 'torment people forever' or 'annihilate them'. Everyone except most Christians... lol. This contradiction is so inexcusable that many have walked away from the faith just for that reason alone. Others don't even bother becoming a Christian.

Anyhow, there are many verses in the Bible that clearly teach Reincarnation, however we are told that "We can't take those verses literally".

For example, here is Jesus stating plainly that John the Baptist was the Reincarnation of Elijah...

Matthew 11:14
"And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come"

Again, we aren't allowed to interpret that verse literally. See the problem?

If this is what you want to preach, starting a new thread, would be better than spamming one already started.

 

[Base12]

If this is what you want to preach, starting a new thread, would be better than spamming one already started.

...and here we go with the rude comments and false accusations.



Here's a thought...

How about you contribute something useful to the thread instead of acting like a child?

You really think it brings anyone joy to have to read your useless garbage?

Post your hate somewhere else please.

BTW... Your Avatar suits you.

 

[Timtofly]

...and here we go with the rude comments and false accusations.



Here's a thought...

How about you contribute something useful to the thread instead of acting like a child?

You really think it brings anyone joy to have to read your useless garbage?

Post your hate somewhere else please.

I was agreeing with you. You hate your own ideas?

 

[Base12]

I was agreeing with you. You hate your own ideas?

You are calling my posts 'Spam'. Whatever.

 

[Timtofly]

That is the definition of huge boxes of text placed in the middle of a thread on a different topic, but we digress.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jesus says that unless you come as a child, you cannot come, for as such is the kingdom of heaven. Those sealed by the Holy Spirit make up this kingdom.

But there is also false humility. Like false every thing else which is taken to be burned. The word distinguishes coming as a child in “malice” (which gets ignored often) but be you men in knowledge of (2 Peter 1:8 growing up In Him in all things(putting away childish things, and become a man)Ephesians 4:13-14 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: [14] That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

The seal of salvation starts in the womb like a plant seed. How our life developes is the different types of soil, bringing forth that plant.

A seed planted in the womb? Which womb? Paul was separated from his mother’s womb. Don’t agree all the soils the seeds are sown in bring forth life. Only one ground. But instead all the soils where the seed is sown (except this one ground) are consumed by fowls, scorched by the heat, lay on a stony heart that has no depth or root and are offended ...all grounds but one the former conversation ALL have had in the flesh and the lust of it. (Galatians 1:13-15) There is only one ground there which brings forth fruit. “One must be born of the Spirit” ...of a different conversation
(Philippians 3:20), 2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

Psalm 50:21-23These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes. [22] Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver. [23] Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright (by the grace of God) will I shew the salvation of God.

This world is what blinds us to God.

Agree. “Built” of the world, vessels of destruction built to destroy. Ecclesiastes 9:18 Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.

Yet, the beauty and Mercy that God goes after that one which is lost, that sinner which destroys much good. As Paul also confessed to have destroyed and persecuted His body. Luke 15:4-7 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? [5] And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. [6] And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. [7] I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Then one day we turn away from the world, and look into the eyes of the Holy Spirit and say Yes. We accept The Atonement of Jesus. Can we still turn back to this world and turn our backs on God? Yes we can.

Not if Christ is within. Since Greater is He and nothing can take a garment which waxes not old nor is consumed. None stronger can take the Armour Of God but instead His Armour remains in His peace(not as the world gives), as He said “put on the whole Armour Of God”.
Which Acts 5:38-39 Is pretty clear on: “And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: [39] But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.”

If you be found even to fight against God...Who has the Victory?

 

[theophilus]

The church I like to visit, not my home church, mentioned on Easter that Hell was in the center of the earth. I started skimming online and see where that comes from, and I believe Hell is a literal place. It is weird for me to think the center of the earth is Hell though. No offense to any who believe this way. I just never heard of it before. Anyone believe this way? What are your main arguments for this/against this? I never heard of anything like that. If I did, I dismissed the idea without thinking about it.

In order to discuss the need to clarify what you mean by Hell. The name has been applied both to the lake of fire where the condemned go after the final judgment and to Hades, where the damned are now waiting for the final judgment. In the Old Testament this place is called Sheol and before Jesus was crucified all the dead, both good and bad, went there. In the account of Lazarus and the rich man, found in chapter 16 of Luke, the rich man is clearly said to be in Hades, and yet he was able to see and talk to Lazarus and Abraham. This shows that all three were in Hades, just in different parts. Jesus told the repentant criminal that he would be with him in Paradise, showing that his death would make a change in the state of the righteous.

Samuel came out of Sheol to talk to Saul. Here is what the medium said to him. "The king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What do you see?” And the woman said to Saul, “I see a god coming up out of the earth.” This shows that Sheol must be under the earth. So that is where those destined for the lake of fire are now. The saved who have died are not in Paradise, which is in the third Heaven.

 

[amadeus]

Thread sort of taking a detour, but as the Lord leads. This is an important topic too. I believe unbelievers blaspheme the Holy Spirit all the time. Most do this out of ignorance besides demons. It is Christians who are not ignorant of what they are doing...using salvation as a "get out of jail free card" that is true blasphemy. These are Christians who do not truly have a repentant heart. But unbelievers can't even repent without coming to Christ.

Yes, the unforgivable sin cannot be committed by an unbeliever.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, the unforgivable sin cannot be committed by an unbeliever.

The old man is blasphemous and cannot enter it. The old man unforgiven in this life (age)and the next: condemned and perishing without. Saul was blasphemous but did it in unbelief yes...it was Paul who entered in by grace. To say whatsoever born of God is capable of being blasphemous, is to say God is and is capable of being blasphemous when God does not lie. Man lies. That born of the Spirit does not lie, That born after the flesh lies, deceives, kills, and destroys. 1 John 3:9 KJV
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin(does not blasphemy); for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,(blasphemy) because he is born of God. (And God is not blasphemous).

Paul remained no more in unbelief being blasphemous and persecuting the Lord but instead (only through grace) is blasphemy be forgiven. His seed is not blasphemous, but instead
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Doesn’t mean(IMO) the incorruptible seed is the only seed which can be blasphemous ...but instead (through grace) is the only seed forgive of “the former things of the flesh and the list of it”.

Amadeus, if God is within us, He who is greater than he who is in the word...is He who is greater blasphemous?

 

[amadeus]

Torn here. You lost me a couple of post back. we (you and I) have talked before about differences so trying not to derail the thread. Romans 1:20-21 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: [21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

But torn at the vail (or veil not sure which) remains and 1 Timothy 4:1-2 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [2] Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Don't make it too complicated. God can handle complicated, but can we? We can only see clearly things that make a difference to God as He has given us the ability to do so. A person receives today such 'vision', such 'hearing' via the Holy Spirit... but perfect vision of everything does not come to you when you first encounter or receive the Holy Spirit.

As with the baby of flesh, at the start we know very little and are very dependent on others for the essentials simply to remain physically alive. There are what we might call survival instincts in that baby of flesh so that when he is hungry or cold or uncomfortable or in pain, he cries... not really understanding in his own mind even what it is that he needs. He needs something and the loving mother is able to handle that by feeding, putting a blanket over him, changing his diaper, checking for opened diaper pins, or just hold him in a certain way.

Such a baby cannot sin... in the beginning, but as he learns and matures and starts to think, he also learns to use his crying for things not needed, but simply wanted. Somewhere in here changes move the baby from true survival instincts to selfish motives causing him to do what he does.

A good natural parent will teach the growing child to not be so selfish and to love. Selfishness in a very small child is tolerable and even may appear as 'cute' but the older the child gets, physically, the less people will tolerate at too much selfishness. A very selfish physical adult will probably have few or 'no' real friends at all. 'Sin' on the part of such a selfish person would be expected.

Find the parallels or similarities between that fleshly human person and that of the new man of each of us when we are 'born again' as Jesus explains it as per John 3:3ff. What I see is the opportunity for each of us, born anew, to do correctly what Adam and Eve in their beginning did incorrectly. Before Jesus opened up the closed Door and before the Holy Spirit was poured out on 'whosoever will', we were all dead without real hope beyond this temporal life. That's been changed, but like Adam and Eve we can make the wrong choices... in spite of Jesus and in spite of the Holy Spirit.

Similar to the human child growing up we can focus on the rewards God has mentioned or promised, instead of focusing on Him. Focusing on what we can do for others is effectively focusing on what we can do for God, is it not? This is our test. What kind of grade will we receive at the end of our course: passing or failing? How selfish are we still? Are we at times still so selfish that we will deliberately go against what God tells us is against Him? Probably the severity of the penalty is directly dependent on where and what we are in God? The selfish baby is still cute. The selfish teenager is difficult. The selfish adult is impossible.

God judgement is described by Jesus here:

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

Given what God has given, when have we purposed stepped past the point of needing chastisement and arrived at the point where God will no longer forgive us? Think about the children of Israel in the wilderness. They murmured and complained, but then they were allowed to repent, but for most of them it was not a real or lasting repentance. God was merciful but they finally reached the limit of the mercy which He was going to allow them regarding entrance into the Promised Land. The scripture speaks of 10 times for them [Num 14:22-23] for them. How many times will He be merciful and one more time allow us to repent... or to express our intention to repent?

Peter asked Jesus how many times he should forgive and offending brother and suggested 7 times. Jesus upped the limit to seven times seventy. But that is only 490 times. I know that in my own case God has allowed me to return to Him after my foolish rebellions over the years more than 490 times. I believe that answer lies in when we have made a habit and sinning and repenting repeatedly always expecting God to forgive us one more time. God is an unlimited God, but He expects from each of us a sincere desire to be like Him putting all that we have into accomplishing that. He knows what He has given each of us and judges us as per that verse in Luke 12 cited above. The limit is according what is really in our heart and how really sincere we are about loving Him always first and becoming always more like Him. The flesh is weak and unable to do these things alone, so we have been given special help via the written scriptures and via the Holy Spirit. For many people who have tasted of these things, it seems to me that for them it is still not enough. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[amadeus]

I do not agree with how blasphemy is part of the picture. Blasphemy is being profane or disparaging Who God is.

Ephesians 4:30 says: "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

It is only the person of the Holy Spirit which draws us to God. We are in darkness until the Holy Spirit shows us the light to see. Until one knows the truth, the conviction of the Holy Spirit can cause one to blaspheme God because that is all that individuals spirit can do. One cannot be blind to the Holy Spirit until they have rejected the conviction to a point it no longer bothers them, and living in sin is so natural they can never see it any other way.

To deny that the Holy Spirit cannot be known to all of humanity is part of the deception of limited Atonement, that not all can be saved.

You are perhaps correct that many people, including believers say evil things against God, but even if we name that as blasphemy it is not an unforgivable sin. The unforgivable sin is not the evil any unbelievers do from day to day. The unbeliever does not do the unforgivable no matter how evil he is... because he does not know God. He does know or even accept the existence of a Holy Spirit. He still has time to repent and become a believer while he still has time. He is among those to whom Jesus was sent for whom the Holy Spirit is available. The unforgiveable sin may only occur after a person has really come to know Jesus and the Holy Spirit as I understand it.

I know that some who believe in a predetermined elect and a predetermined damned cannot accept what I believe as possibly correct. People who believe in OSAS [Once saved always saved] will also find it difficult, if not impossible, to accept what I believe as possibly correct. So there it is!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God can handle complicated, but can we?

God can handle a blasphemer, but can we? The unforgivable sin is to remain in unbelief still of the natural man. Who cannot receive the things of God for they are foolishness to him (hidden from him). Only that born after the Spirit can receive the things of God. I am sorry, Still do not see how you can say that which is born of God, born of His Spirit, is the only one who CAN commit the unforgivable sin when the word seems to say the opposite
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

A good natural parent will teach the growing child to not be so selfish and to love.

There is no such thing as a good “natural” parent, for the natural parent drives its children into the world not delivers them out and from it.

 

[amadeus]

I'm surprised to hear you say this Amadeus. I think it more common than is realised particularly in religious circles. 'Religion' is the great placebo where people deceive themselves into thinking all is well.

You may be correct, but I don't know the hearts of all those individuals involved in such things. The Apostle Paul was ignorantly involved the work of the devil... but he thought he was OK, until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. How many serving ridiculous gods or even serving God in ridiculous ways will eventually come to true repentance and come to the Lord's side before their end? Paul did it and others may. Many will not, but it is not for me to say who won't or even that they have already committed unforgiveable sins. Unless God were to give me a personal revelation on this, which He has not, I will hold back... and leave final judgement where it belongs.