Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away

[Ronald David Bruno]

The old and the new, that is what it is all about!

When someone is given scriptural evidence that proves them wrong, they either learn the truth, or stubbornly ignore it or distort its meaning and then give a shallow, short response like the one you just gave. Just go back and study, test and maybe change your Preterist views and church if you must. Someone has taught you bad theology and led you astray (well meaning as they may be) but just wrong about eschatology. It doesn't mean all end time scenarios are correct, there are many and much uncertainty. But most of us realize that the world is not just going to keep progressing towards a better world unless God intervenes. To think that Christianity will eventually transform the entire world and everyone will eventually get on board our path is naive. Judgment is imminent. You must suspect a diabolical movement going on RIGHT NOW, don't you?

 

[101G]

The law was made for sinners; including those who proclaim these days that "I am a sinner saved by grace."

Such people are under the law; for the law was made for them; because they are sinners.

GINOLJC, to all.
thanks for the reply, second, well if the law was made for sinners, then, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" well that got you too..... YIKES!.


Romans 3:8 "And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just."
Romans 3:9 "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;"
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
Romans 3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
Romans 3:12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
Romans 3:13 "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:"
Romans 3:14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:"
Romans 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood:"
Romans 3:16 "Destruction and misery are in their ways:"
Romans 3:17 "And the way of peace have they not known:"
Romans 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Romans 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

now as for those, as you, and them that say, "I am a sinner saved by grace.",
Romans 2:3 "And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?" (you better read that verse again...... ).

Romans 2:4 "Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?"

Romans 2:5 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;"

Romans 2:6 "Who will render to every man according to his deeds:" (you might want to read that one again too)

Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" (say WHAT?)

Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," (NO, they must obey the Law... (smile), lol, lol) Oh my goodness.

Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

Romans 2:10 "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."

Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" (say what? without LAW? ........ YIKES!)

Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." BINGO.

Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" BINGO.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

thanks for the reply, second, well if the law was made for sinners, then, Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" well that got you too..... YIKES!.

We all have sinned; but this does not necessarily mean that we will sin in the present or in the future...

The words "come short" in Romans 3:23 are in the present passive indicative...which indicates that you only come short when you are passive and not actively seeking the Lord and His holiness.

Romans 3:9 "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;"
Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
Romans 3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God."
Romans 3:12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
Romans 3:13 "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:"
Romans 3:14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:"
Romans 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood:"
Romans 3:16 "Destruction and misery are in their ways:"
Romans 3:17 "And the way of peace have they not known:"
Romans 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Romans 3:19 "Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God."

Now, notice what I have highlighted above in larger letters and in purple...

Romans 3:10-18 is what the law says about those who are under it.

Now look at Romans 6:14...

Rom 6:14, For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

If you are in Christ, then you are not under the law but under grace...and therefore Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to you...sin shall not have dominion over you.

Notice also verse 9...it says that Jew and Gentile alike are all under sin.

However, if you compare 1 Corinthians 10:32, there is a third group...the church of God....who are not under the law and therefore are not under sin (Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to them).

 

[101G]

We all have sinned; but this does not necessarily mean that we will sin in the present or in the future...

well you just lied there, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." well you just said it..... see how easy it is to reprove a false statement.... better known as a lie.

The words "come short" in Romans 3:23 are in the present passive indicative...which indicates that you only come short when you are passive and not actively seeking the Lord and His holiness.

well the word "have" took care of that.... lol.

If you are in Christ, then you are not under the law but under grace...and therefore Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to you...sin shall not have dominion over you.

well I been said that, didn't I, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,"

but let me ask you this, is not everyone under GRACE, both in and OUTSIDE of christ... yes or No?

Notice also verse 9...it says that Jew and Gentile alike are all under sin.

see above,

However, if you compare 1 Corinthians 10:32, there is a third group...the church of God....who are not under the law and therefore are not under sin (Romans 3:10-18 does not apply to them).

my God... there is no third group.... lol, lol, the church of God? lolo, lol, lol, are you kidding...... see your argument from IGNORANCE. understand there are both jews and gentiles that are in the chuch and out, ther is no third group....... if this is your teaching.... God help us all.

see jbf you need to use the First principle of God... read Hebrews 5:12 through 14.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

well you just lied there, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." well you just said it..... see how easy it is to reprove a false statement.... better known as a lie.

It is no lie.

1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.

There is a difference between practically sinning and indwelling sin.

A person can have indwelling sin and yet not practically sin.

For indwelling sin can be rendered dead within a man (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over the man's behaviour (Romans 6:14)

but let me ask you this, is not everyone under GRACE, both in and OUTSIDE of christ... yes or No?

Not everyone has saving grace (as we find in Ephesians 2:8-9).

my God... there is no third group.... lol, lol, the church of God? lolo, lol, lol, are you kidding..

Evidently you did not look up the verse that I referenced.

1Co 10:32, Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

It may very well be that the church is composed of both Jew and Gentile; but that it is also a separate group is evident in the scripture that I have quoted above.

 

[101G]

1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.

are you sinning right now? you said that you didn't have words to explain what you believe of the Godhead...... that right there is a lie. for God never sent his teaches uninformed. why? 1 Peter 3:15 "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" you have no answer, because you said it yourself, "I don't have words to explain".

well.......... so John 1:8 is correct.... YIKES!. see jbf, one can spot a lie a mile off.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

are you sinning right now?

If I were sinning right now, I think that the Holy Spirit would be convicting me of sin in this moment because I walk in the light as Jesus is in the light (1 John 1:7).

 

[justbyfaith]

you said that you didn't have words to explain what you believe of the Godhead...... that right there is a lie.

You're right...because I have explained what I believe of the Godhead in posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.

But at the moment that you asked me, I did not have the words to explain my view...because the words that I was using, about "shifting from eternity into time" were not adequate to explain to you perfectly what I was talking about.

I could not think of any other words to describe my position and the words that I was using weren't adequate...so I told you that I didn't have the words to explain my pov...

Even though I had already explained it adequately in the thread in question.

Again,

True Trinity. (posts #1-#6)

 

[justbyfaith]

edited post #26 (Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away).

It is no lie.

1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.

 

[101G]

If I were sinning right now, I think that the Holy Spirit would be convicting me of sin in this moment because I walk in the light as Jesus is in the light (1 John 1:7).

Many have walked in the Light and sinned, as was with Paul and barnabas split.

but that was not my question, "are you sinning right now?", THAT YOU KNOW OF?........

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Many have walked in the Light and sinned, as was with Paul and barnabas split.

but that was not my question, "are you sinning right now?", THAT YOU KNOW OF?........

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

No, not that I know of.

And I think that because I am walking in the light, I would know if I were sinning.

 

[101G]

No, not that I know of.

And I think that because I am walking in the light, I would know if I were sinning.

well let see, OT first, Leviticus 4:23 "Or if his sin, wherein he hath sinned, come to his knowledge; he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a male without blemish:"

now this, at the turn to the NT, let see what God command of ignorant sin, notice, ignorant sin without knowledge as in Leviticus 4:23.
Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

Now NT, lets get straight to us, as teachers. 1 Timothy 6:3 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;"

1 Timothy 6:4 "He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,"
1 Timothy 6:5 "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself."

it's a sin to teach a doctrine that is not of God. well that put a many in the hot seat, with all these doctrines out there today.

so you so wifully teach something that you cannot explain, or as you states, cannot put in words. and what you do know, or believe, is not adding up to the scriptures of truth...... YIKES! ........... well?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Rocky Wiley]

ERROR. only what they practice, their religion. and two, the Jews nor the temple is center of God's acceptance, for the world is to worship God in Spirit and in truth. so no temple in Jerusalem, or anywhere else will do.

and as for this physical created earth, and heaven. scripture, 2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
2 Peter 3:11 "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,"
2 Peter 3:12 "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"

so do that mean the earth and the heavens are physically destroyed? no, but re-newed ........ completely from scratch. for this is our home and the center of his KINGDOM will be here on earth. and no, we're not dwelling in heaven, nope but right here on earth. Revelation 5:10 "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth." well God is going to be here on earth, and he said, John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."

so if the Lord Jesus after his "RETURN IN APPERANCE" is setting up his throne here on earth, so why are you in heaven?........ did he not say, "that where I am, there ye may be also." .... well why are ripping a roaring on your why to heaven when the Lord said plainly, "that where I am, there ye may be also." ..... Duh?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Heaven and earth shall pass away. The age of law would pass away and the temple and sacrifices represented that.

 

[101G]

Heaven and earth shall pass away. The age of law would pass away and the temple and sacrifices represented that.

first thanks for the reply, second, nope, the Law was never abolish, as a matter of fact the Law is establish without those sacarfice, but by Faith. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." well the question is "HOW BY FAITH?". in sacrifice of, A. words, and B. in deeds. supportive scripture, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

DEED of sacrifice,
Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

WORD of sacrifice,
Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."

the Law without Christ is for the disobedient, Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

the Law in Christ Jesus, Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"


Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;"

a good reading of Romans chapter #2 & #3 will give understanding.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Earburner]

Heaven and earth shall pass away. The age of law would pass away and the temple and sacrifices represented that.

Try to be completely focussed, and then follow through with
2 Peter 3 10-13

 

[Rocky Wiley]

first thanks for the reply, second, nope, the Law was never abolish, as a matter of fact the Law is establish without those sacarfice, but by Faith. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." well the question is "HOW BY FAITH?". in sacrifice of, A. words, and B. in deeds. supportive scripture, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

DEED of sacrifice,

Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."​

WORD of sacrifice,
Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."​

the Law without Christ is for the disobedient, Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"​

the Law in Christ Jesus, Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"​

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;"​

a good reading of Romans chapter #2 & #3 will give understanding.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"​

I don't live in the age of law, but in the age of grace.​

 

[justbyfaith]

so you so wifully teach something that you cannot explain, or as you states, cannot put in words. and what you do know, or believe, is not adding up to the scriptures of truth...... YIKES! ........... well?

See post #29 (Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away).

 

[101G]

See post #29 (Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away).

never mind.... I read that and it was flawed.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

never mind.... I read that and it was flawed.

That is merely your opinion.

And also, post #29 (Heaven and Earth Shall Pass Away) itself, says that there are statements made by me that do explain my pov accurately; but that in the moment I did not have any words for you that I felt could adequately explain my pov.

So, it is not that I truly didn't have the words to explain my pov; but that in the midst of that conversation I was dumbfounded as to what to say to you in order to be able to explain to you my pov...that the Holy Spirit was going to have to take you the rest of the way.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

first thanks for the reply, second, nope, the Law was never abolish, as a matter of fact the Law is establish without those sacarfice, but by Faith. Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." well the question is "HOW BY FAITH?". in sacrifice of, A. words, and B. in deeds. supportive scripture, Colossians 3:17 "And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

DEED of sacrifice,
Romans 12:1 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service."

WORD of sacrifice,
Hebrews 13:15 "By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name."

the Law without Christ is for the disobedient, Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

the Law in Christ Jesus, Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."
Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;"

a good reading of Romans chapter #2 & #3 will give understanding.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

There are two ages in the bible, the old and the new. Jesus came to take away the old and set up the new. That is why who so ever will can come to God. In this age we, the believers, can come to Jesus once and live for Him forever.