Harmful Doctrines Part 2

[Ritajanice]

1Co 4:7

For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

You posted scripture, you need more than scripture.

How would you or I know that we are in the righteousness of Christ?

Do you honestly believe just by posting scripture,that your in the righteousness of Christ?

We need that vital living ingredient Lizbeth..a Living testimony ..once again all Spirit questions evaded..

You should know Lizbeth that no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Living Holy Spirit..

 

[Lizbeth]

Which doesn’t say , we are in Gods righteousness.....

When our spirit is reborn we are in the righteousness of Christ , clothed in the righteousness of Christ...which is of God...we are joint heirs with Christ..Born Again Saints..,chosen and predestined to become children of God...Spirit children.,not Bible reading children.

God is a Living Spirit, who communicates with his spirit children via his Holy Spirit...the Bible is confirmation of Gods truth,,,the bible was written under the influence of men..therefore understood in our spirit.,,we are under the New Covenant...not the old Covenant...were alive in our spirit...our faith is also Alive and Active...we have supernatural faith.

Rom 3:21-22

But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD without the Law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the prophets.
Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE.

 

[Ritajanice]

Rom 3:21-22

But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD without the Law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the prophets.
Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Once again all you do is post scripture...your spirit must be reborn Lizbeth to be in the righteousness of Christ.,,it’s a Living spirit birth, that’s the part you don’t understand.

Scripture you post confirms Gods truth..it must be understood in our spirit..not in our human intellect.

Gods Living testimony is his Living seed the Holy Spirit?

@Episkopos has a Living testimony , I don’t see yours in any of your posts.

 

[Lizbeth]

You posted scripture, you need more than scripture.

How would you or I know that we are in the righteousness of Christ?

Do you honestly believe just by posting scripture,that your in the righteousness of Christ?

We need that vital living ingredient Lizbeth..a Living testimony ..once again all Spirit questions evaded..

You should know Lizbeth that no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Living Holy Spirit..

I'm sorry for you sister. You are very easily confused and the only remedy for it is the light of God's word to enlighten your mind. But you rebuke and reject and refuse to read what you badly need to be reading and asking God to help you understand. I understand the scriptures that I post, but you don't. So it is the Lord you need to seek and ask for understanding, not blaming me or the scriptures for your lack.

 

[Ritajanice]

I'm sorry for you sister. You are very easily confused and the only remedy for it is the light of God's word to enlighten your mind. But you rebuke and reject refuse to read what you badly need to be reading and asking God to help you understand. I understand the scriptures that I post, but you don't. So it is the Lord you need to seek and ask for understanding, not blaming me or the scriptures for your lack.

Sorry Lizbeth, you are the one who is confused..you think the Bible is God..it’s not..

We must be Born Of The Spirit ..not enlightened..you lack spirit knowledge, it’s true what @Episkopos says about you.,you only have head knowledge ../ religion.

You can’t even answer my easy spirit questions.

 

[Episkopos]

Rom 3:21-22

But now the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD without the Law is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the prophets.
Even the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD WHICH IS BY FAITH of Jesus Christ UNTO ALL AND UPON ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE.

Your rationalistic bent has caused you to assume yourself into the text....but you are not understanding the depth of the verse. You are reading it logically according to your own understanding and experience.

This verse is not a name it claim it verse for human beliefs. One needs the faith OF Christ to be clothed with God's righteousness. One who has that covering walks as Jesus walked...seek first the kingdom. At that level the "BELIEVE" is a gift...the gift of faith...from faith to faith. From a human faith to a divine faith..a Christ-faith.
How do we know we have Christ-faith? Because we walk in a supernatural way above sin. To walk as Jesus walked. NO rationalistic speculator will understand this...it is spiritually discerned AFTER one has experienced resurrection life. All things are then compared to what is eternal and of the truth.

But you are looking for a religious rationale to claim you have God's righteousness. And that is your prime objective...rather than trying to know the truth experientially.

Trying to know things in your head is not the same as knowing God.

 

[Ritajanice]

Your rationalistic bent has caused you to assume yourself into the text....but you are not understanding the depth of the verse. You are reading it logically according to your own understanding and experience

Amen Epi...I’m leaving this thread , as I know I will end up arguing with her..I don’t want to spoil your thread..putting her back on ignore, she does my head in.

 

[Lizbeth]

Scripture you post confirms Gods truth..it must be understood in our spirit..not in our human intellect.

Yes indeed......so you need to be asking the LORD for understanding, not seeking it from men.

 

[Lizbeth]

Your rationalistic bent has caused you to assume yourself into the text....but you are not understanding the depth of the verse. You are reading it logically according to your own understanding and experience.

This verse is not a name it claim it verse for human beliefs. One needs the faith OF Christ to be clothed with God's righteousness. One who has that covering walks as Jesus walked...seek first the kingdom. At that level the "BELIEVE" is a gift...the gift of faith...from faith to faith. From a human faith to a divine faith..a Christ-faith.
How do we know we have Christ-faith? Because we walk in a supernatural way above sin. To walk as Jesus walked. NO rationalistic speculator will understand this...it is spiritually discerned AFTER one has experienced resurrection life. All things are then compared to what is eternal and of the truth.

But you are looking for a religious rationale to claim you have God's righteousness. And that is your prime objective...rather than trying to know the truth experientially.

Trying to know things in your head is not the same as knowing God.

The simple truth is hid from you apparently.

 

[Episkopos]

The simple truth is hid from you apparently.

The simplistic truth is transcended by grasping the truth by the Spirit. Otherwise a religion is created based on word patterns that has no power. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

 

[Lizbeth]

The simplistic truth is transcended by grasping the truth by the Spirit. Otherwise a religion is created based on word patterns that has no power. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

God calleth those things which be not as though they are. That is spiritual truth....for those who have spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear it.....spiritual understanding.

 

[Episkopos]

God calleth those things which be not as though they are. That is spiritual truth....for those who have spiritual eyes and ears to see and hear it.....spiritual understanding.

LOL. Lizbeth calleth things as though they were. Those who have any natural discernment can see that. ;)

 

[David in NJ]

Simple reading skills is all that is required. We must become as little children......remember? Truth is revealed to little children but hid from those who are a little too wise in their own eyes. Digging too deep results in ending up in a foreign country. Too much splicing and dicing ends up in losing the plot....like a picasso painting that bears little resemblance to reality. We can miss the mark by coming short of it as well as by going too far and landing beyond the mark.

Very few understand this Lizbeth.

Very few will humble themselves to be like a child before the Lord.

Human intellect is the 'latest & greatest' idol amongst christians today.

 

[David in NJ]

I'm sorry for you sister. You are very easily confused and the only remedy for it is the light of God's word to enlighten your mind. But you rebuke and reject and refuse to read what you badly need to be reading and asking God to help you understand. I understand the scriptures that I post, but you don't. So it is the Lord you need to seek and ask for understanding, not blaming me or the scriptures for your lack.

Amen

 

[marks]

The righteousness of God is imputed to believers forensically or judicially, not inherently.

Yes, I fully agree. I would restate, "forensically and judicially".

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

I checked and the 2 Cor. 5:9 is both stated and displayed at 37:47.

Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 2 Cor. 5:9

2 Cor 5:9 - So whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to please him. [ESV]
2 Cor 5:9 - Wherefore also we are ambitious, whether at home or away from home, to be well pleasing to him, [YLT]
2 Cor 5:9 - Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [KJV]

These are quite some different translations.

What strength of glasses do you use? ;)

A non glasses issue after all

I go to God for answers. As such, holiness can never be a process. No one becomes holier with time. Holiness is about God's presence and empowering to walk IN Christ by grace through faith. The burning bush didn't become increasingly holy over time. No, it was holy ground ONLY as God's presence was present.

There is no partial holiness. Anything mixed with holiness is NOT holy. The idea of a process of holiness was invented to try reconciling the lack of power that the carnal man has when reading the bible and somehow realizing that one's behavior is NOT lining up with the biblical narrative. So people tend to die in their sins without seeking God and His visitation, presence and empowering. Such are "comforted" in their lack of progress by saying that over time doing nothing will improve their condition. It never happens....at least not on a scale that God notices so that He can say...well done.

All religious theories fall short of the truth. A person is free to adopt one of the many theories that abound...OR,,, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.

1 Cor 6:11- But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

This states the moment we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit, we are washed, we are sanctified, we are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. That's how God sees us through Christ. It's our starting point in the new life as born again Christian and we have a lot to learn as a new born baby, a (life during) process as the following passages show us -

2 Cor 7:1 - Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.

2Petr 1:3 - His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
2Petr 1:4 - by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire.
2Petr 1:5 - For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge,
2Petr 1:6 - and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
2Petr 1:7 - and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love.
2Petr 1:8 - For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Petr 1:9 - For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.
2Petr 1:10 - Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

1Joh 1:7 - But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1Joh 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Joh 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Joh 1:10 - If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Obviously sanctification is a process, to confirm your calling and election.

I remember my conversion and what happened to me as if were yesterday although it's 50 years ago, the moment I received the indwelling Holy Spirit my dead conscience started to speak, I had to make some hard choices as the new life was at war with the old man, and the new man overcame. It's not so hard at all as John testifies -

1Joh 5:3 - For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.

You know yourself, the new man wants to please the Lord and does not want to sin any longer, it's all automatic, the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ProDeo]

Going too far the other way could be attributed (imputed) to the Eastern Orthodox belief system where people become gods...or "deified".

The truth is neither in undervaluing the power of God to make us sinless in Christ (Evangelicalism) or overvaluing our place in His kingdom by making us gods (by deification in the Eastern tradition).

I think that one day we should have a good discussion about holiness and what it means.

We are not gods and never will become gods, do you have Scripture to offer for your statements?

We are not into Mormonism, are we ?

 

[Johann]

Obviously sanctification is a process, to confirm your calling and election.

Praise the Lord for this statement!

J.

 

[Behold]

But you are looking for a religious rationale to claim you have God's righteousness.

Unless a sinner has received "The Gift of Righteousness" from God... then they remain unforgiven, and are not born again.

Only God can elevate a sinner, so that they are eternally forgiven all their sin, and then given by God "the Gift of Righteousness"... which is the only means that a sinner, a human being can become "The Righteousness of God" "in Christ".

And without this God given.. "imputed righteousness of Christ".. the person is not become a Christian.

They are in fact.....Religious but lost... Still in their sin...

 

[Johann]

Unless a sinner has received "The Gift of Righteousness" from God... then they remain unforgiven, and are not born again.

Only God can elevate a sinner, so that they are eternally forgiven all their sin, and then given by God "the Gift of Righteousness"... which is the only means that a sinner, a human being can become "The Righteousness of God" "in Christ".

And without this God given.. "imputed righteousness of Christ".. the person is not become a Christian.

They are in fact.....Religious but lost.

He has changed the Scriptures-it is now imputation by faith-not the righteousness of God in Christ.

J.