This episode is a follow-up to "Harmful Doctrines Part 1" whereby we continue to examine certain words that are being presently misunderstood by many, as well as other doctrines that are based on an incomplete understanding of God's ways.
Harmful Doctrines Part 2
- Thread starter Episkopos
- Start date
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Old Testament righteousness: Either by works or by faith. Examples are of both Phinehas and Abraham respectively. (Please do not respond unless a study of both is done...otherwise one is just opining in ignorance of the scriptures). God can impute righteousness to a person for either faith or works. But that righteousness is a human righteousness...we can be done in the power of the flesh. (inspired by God). Old Testament holiness is a temple holiness unless by visitation from God.
New Testament holiness: By grace alone and by faith alone. Not by works of righteousness. There is also a higher righteousness revealed in Christ that one comes under by entering into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. The righteousness of God. God's righteousness can NEVER be imputed to a person. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags by comparison.
New Testament holiness: By grace alone and by faith alone. Not by works of righteousness. There is also a higher righteousness revealed in Christ that one comes under by entering into the kingdom realm of the Spirit. The righteousness of God. God's righteousness can NEVER be imputed to a person. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags by comparison.
Imputation in Greek Syntax: Core Term Analysis
The term λογίζομαι (logizomai) often used for "impute" or "reckon," is critical for understanding imputation.
Logizomai is in the passive voice in critical texts such as Romans 4:3 and Romans 4:6. This highlights that the action is performed by God upon the believer.
Romans 4:3: ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην ("it was reckoned to him as righteousness").
ἐλογίσθη is aorist passive, indicating a completed action done by God, not something Abraham accomplished himself.
εἰς δικαιοσύνην shows the direction of the reckoning-Abraham was credited with righteousness, not made inherently righteous.
This reckoning is a legal or forensic declaration, not an ontological transformation, showing that believers are credited with Christ’s righteousness rather than possessing it inherently.
2. Greek Syntax in 2 Corinthians 5:21
"Τὸν μὴ γνόντα ἁμαρτίαν, ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γενώμεθα δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ."
Translation: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Key Syntax Analysis:
ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν (hyper hēmōn): The preposition hyper signifies substitution-Christ took on sin on our behalf.
ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν (hamartian epoiēsen): The verb ἐποίησεν (He made) is active, emphasizing God’s decisive action in imputing sin to Christ.
The abstract noun ἁμαρτία (sin) indicates He was treated as sin-bearing, not as a sinner Himself.
ἵνα γενώμεθα (hina genōmetha): The subjunctive verb γενώμεθα (we might become) indicates purpose, showing that believers are brought into a righteous standing before God.
However, γενώμεθα does not imply inherent transformation into righteousness, as the locus of righteousness remains "in Him" (ἐν αὐτῷ).
The syntax δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ ("righteousness of God in Him") demonstrates that this righteousness originates from God, is mediated by Christ, and is not an intrinsic quality of the believer.
3. Philippians 3:9 – Christ’s Righteousness as External
"...καὶ εὑρεθῶ ἐν αὐτῷ, μὴ ἔχων ἐμὴν δικαιοσύνην τὴν ἐκ νόμου, ἀλλὰ τὴν διὰ πίστεως Χριστοῦ, τὴν ἐκ θεοῦ δικαιοσύνην ἐπὶ τῇ πίστει."
Translation: "...and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith."
Key Syntax Analysis:
μὴ ἔχων ἐμὴν δικαιοσύνην (mē echōn emēn dikaiosynēn): Paul explicitly denies possessing any inherent righteousness.
τὴν διὰ πίστεως Χριστοῦ (tēn dia pisteōs Christou): The genitive Χριστοῦ (of Christ) shows the source of righteousness. The preposition διὰ (through) indicates that righteousness is mediated by faith, not generated by the believer.
τὴν ἐκ θεοῦ δικαιοσύνην (tēn ek theou dikaiosynēn): The prepositional phrase ἐκ θεοῦ emphasizes that righteousness originates from God and is granted to the believer. This righteousness remains external to the believer, highlighting the forensic nature of justification.
4. Romans 5:19 – Christ’s Obedience and Righteousness
"ὥσπερ γὰρ διὰ τῆς παρακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ἁμαρτωλοὶ κατεστάθησαν οἱ πολλοί, οὕτως καὶ διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται οἱ πολλοί."
Translation: "For as by the disobedience of one man the many were made sinners, so also by the obedience of one the many will be made righteous."
Key Syntax Analysis:
διὰ τῆς ὑπακοῆς τοῦ ἑνὸς (dia tēs hypakoēs tou henos): The preposition διὰ again indicates mediation—righteousness comes through the obedience of Christ, not the believer’s own merit.
δίκαιοι κατασταθήσονται (dikaioi katastathēsontai): The future passive verb κατασταθήσονται ("will be made righteous") shows that this is a status granted by God, not an intrinsic transformation.
The obedience of Christ (His active righteousness in perfectly fulfilling God’s law) is the basis for the imputed righteousness believers receive. However, they remain distinct from Christ in their nature and do not possess His divine righteousness inherently.
Right?
J.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
I agree, we are clothed in the righteousness of Christ...no one can have Christ’s righteousness.
Plus we as Born Again are partakers Of the divine nature,,we couldn’t possibly have the fullness of God divine nature.
2 Peter 1:3-4
King James Version
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
I have laid out in detail how religious people twist the meaning of words to arrive at a place where self-justification seems reasonable. But imputation is really very simple. God imputes to people what is real not imagined. If God sees something worthy of being called righteous, He imputes righteousness to that person. The same goes for iniquity. Never does God impute His own righteousness to anyone. That is a fable..and a damnable heresy. It is an ever deepening error...to not only claim to be righteous, but also to be as righteous as God.
False. The only action of God on a believer in imputation is one of observation. Declaring something as it is in truth.
Yes, God saw that Abraham was righteous and upright in his heart and He confirmed that.
False. We can only be seen as righteous according to our own actions. Doing what is right (righteous or just) given the choices in the circumstance. This has nothing to do with empowering a person to walk as Jesus walked in HIS righteousness. One must be TRANSLATED into God's level of holiness and righteousness...not falsely imputed into thinking one is something that he/she is not. Notice the fables that Paul speaks of.
He was seen thus (as a sinner) by people, not God. Again with a false declaration where God is blinded to the truth rather than the people who invent silly doctrines in a bid for self-justification.
that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor. 5:19
God did not condemn Himself in a self-condemnation. And God imputed the evil to the devil. Did God impute His own evil onto the devil? Of course not., God NEVER imputes anything of Himself onto others....whether it is righteousness, iniquity or evil.
Anyone with any reading skills will see this. Not so, the indoctrinated ones.
New Covenant faith into New Covenant holiness and justification. The higher walk. To walk as Jesus walked.
False. The works of Jesus are never attributed to people. They are the works of Jesus. We, on the other hand will be judged each according to OUR WORKS done in the flesh.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Cor. 5
The one with a "false doctrine" is you @Episkopos.
The claim that logizomai in Romans 4:3 and Romans 4:6 is in the passive voice in the critical texts is correct.
However, YOUR assertion that imputation merely involves "observation" by God rather than an action He performs upon the believer misunderstands the theological and grammatical implications of the term logizomai (λογίζομαι) in its context.
1. Greek Voice and Usage of Logizomai
In Romans 4:3, logizomai appears in the passive voice: ἐλογίσθη (elogisthē). This is an aorist passive indicative, which means the subject (Abraham) receives the action.
The text reads:
"Ἐπίστευσεν δὲ Ἀβραὰμ τῷ Θεῷ, καὶ ἐλογίσθη αὐτῷ εἰς δικαιοσύνην."
Translation: "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
The passive form indicates that the action of imputing righteousness is performed upon Abraham, and God is the implied agent of the action.
Similarly, in Romans 4:6, logizomai appears in the present passive participle form: λογίζεται (logizetai).
The text reads:
"Καθάπερ καὶ Δαυὶδ λέγει τὸν μακαρισμὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ᾧ ὁ Θεὸς λογίζεται δικαιοσύνην χωρὶς ἔργων."
Translation: "Just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works."
Again, the passive form indicates that the subject (the believer) is the recipient of the action, and the agent performing the action is explicitly stated to be God.
2. What Logizomai Means in Context
Logizomai means “to reckon, count, credit, or impute.” In the context of Romans 4, it describes a judicial or forensic act by which God declares or imputes righteousness to the believer. This involves more than mere observation of reality; it is an act of divine accounting.
Romans 4:5: "To the one who does not work but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited (λογίζεται) as righteousness."
God justifying the ungodly involves an active declaration, not a passive acknowledgment of existing righteousness.
Passive Voice Emphasizes God’s Initiative:
The use of the passive voice (ἐλογίσθη) highlights that the believer does not actively "create" righteousness but receives it as an external gift from God. Righteousness is reckoned to the believer by God's sovereign act, not by human merit or works (Romans 4:4–5).
YOUR suggestion that imputation is merely God's observation of an existing truth conflicts with the explicit teaching of Romans 4.
If righteousness were something inherent in the believer, Paul’s argument against justification by works would collapse (cf. Romans 4:2–5). Instead, Paul emphasizes that righteousness is imputed apart from works, based solely on faith.
The forensic nature of justification means that God declares the believer righteous, imputing (crediting) Christ’s righteousness to their account.
This is not simply a recognition of inherent righteousness but the assignment of righteousness that originates in Christ (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:21).
4. Supporting Texts Highlighting God’s Active Role
Romans 5:19: "For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous."
This highlights the active imputation of Christ's obedience to the believer. It is not observational but judicial and declarative.
2 Corinthians 5:21: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Christ is actively "made" to be sin, and believers are "made" righteous-a divine action, not a passive recognition.
The grammatical structure of logizomai in Romans 4 demonstrates that righteousness is imputed to the believer as an action performed by God.
Your claim that it merely reflects God's observation of an inherent reality is inconsistent with the theological context of justification in Paul’s writings, which emphasize the external, declarative act of God imputing righteousness to the undeserving.
Go to your nearest church and learn the A,B,C' of the gospel and epistles.
J.
Simple reading skills is all that is required. We must become as little children......remember? Truth is revealed to little children but hid from those who are a little too wise in their own eyes. Digging too deep results in ending up in a foreign country. Too much splicing and dicing ends up in losing the plot....like a picasso painting that bears little resemblance to reality. We can miss the mark by coming short of it as well as by going too far and landing beyond the mark.
I agree with this. Protestantism is based on Western rationalistic relativism which means that nothing truly spiritual and miraculous can be accepted. Everything is just seen as moralistic, hyperbole, figurative, or abstract. This causes a person to miss the mark by undervaluing the mystery and naming and claiming what has not been understood and can then be never experienced (God resists the proud). No power is available from God in that kind of imaginative religious posturing.
Going too far the other way could be attributed (imputed) to the Eastern Orthodox belief system where people become gods...or "deified".
The truth is neither in undervaluing the power of God to make us sinless in Christ (Evangelicalism) or overvaluing our place in His kingdom by making us gods (by deification in the Eastern tradition).
The truth will never dawn on people without the experience of what is being testified of in the bible witness.
Behold
Well-Known Member
What you just stated is not only a Cross denying deception, but a total contradiction of the fact that Salvation is 3 Gifts, to every born again believer.
1.) "The Gift of Salvation"
2.) "The Gift of Eternal Life"
3.) "The Gift of Righteousness".
In Fact..
According to the NT, as Paul teaches it...
Every born again person, has become..
"The Righteousness of God.......in Christ"
So, as you dont have this, by your own admission, then you have a problem that The Cross has not solved for you yet, @Episkopos
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KJ21
For He hath made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might be MADE : The righteousness of God in Him
ASV
Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him
AMP
He made Christ who knew no sin to [judicially] be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we would become the righteousness of GOD
BRG
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we Might be made the righteousness of GOD in Him
CSB
He made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
CEB
God caused the one who didn’t know sin to be sin for our sake so that through him we could become the righteousness of God.
CJB
God made this sinless man be a sin offering on our behalf, so that in union with him we might fully share in the righteousness of GOD”
CEV
Christ never sinned! But God treated him as a sinner, so Christ could make us acceptable to God.
DARBY
Him who knew not sin he has made sin for us, that *we* might become God's righteousness in him.
DLNT
He made the One not having known sin to be sin for us, in order that We might become the righteousness of God in Him.”...
Oh but we do experience it. You must be thinking of nominal believers, not those who know the Lord.
Romans 4 is simple and clear for those who aren't wearing blinders. v. 6 "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God IMPUTETH RIGHTEOUSNESS WITHOUT WORKS." And v. 17, "even God who quickeneth the dead and CALLETH THOSE THINGS WHICH BE NOT AS THOUGH THEY WERE." See, as I've tried to point out before, we are being given the definition of impute right within the passage that talks about imputed righteousness. You are clearly and plainly in error with this.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Yes, I agree we could never receive the righteousness of God, I think I’m starting to get the picture Epi.
Is there anywhere in scripture that says we are in the righteousness of God?
I may be wrong.
Would you agree with that?
We can be clothed in His righteousness. But that righteousness is always His own. When we abide in Christ we grow into His likeness and partake of the righteousness of saints...which at that point is imputed to us.
So then God's righteousness is training saints to become righteous even as He is righteous...in the humanity of Christ (not divinity).
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Oh are you really? No way we could receive His Spirit either then.
What do you think God's Spirit is? God's spirit is His NATURE.........His righteousness, goodness, kindness, temperance, patience....all the fruits of the SPIRIT including His love spread abroad in our hearts. None of it is of our own. It is GOD's seed within us bearing fruit after HIS kind.
Philippians 3:7-11 KJV
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
7) But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11) If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
1 Peter 1:23-24 AMPC
You have been regenerated (born again), not from a mortal origin (seed, sperm), but from one that is immortal by the ever living and lasting Word of God. For all flesh (mankind) is like grass, and all its glory (honor) like [the] flower of grass. The grass withers and the flower drops off
Ezekiel 36:26reveals God's desire towards men, “I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and you a heart of flesh
I’m Born Again..do you have the whole righteousness of God indwelling your spirit?
Receive his Spirit, by whose testimony?
Do you actually understand any of my posts, or are they gobble gook to you?
What do you think it means to be Born Of God that his seed remains in us?
Which means what, you’ve just explained Gods nature?
None of it is our own...it’s God seed in us bearing fruit after his kind?
After his kind?
Spread abroad in our hearts...explain?
Plus how do you know that you have the Love Of God indwelling your spirit?
You can’t have the Love Of God indwelling your spirit, just by reading scripture you know.
So I ask you again, by whose witness do you know the Love Of God?
Where is this witness of God in you?
How do you know that what you testify above is Gods truth?
If you say just by reading your Bible..then I will say, false.
Who is Gods Living testimony, that witnesses Gods truth?
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his
Romans 8:14-16
King James Version
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
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See if we agree @marks
"ἵνα ἡμεῖς γενώμεθα δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ."
("so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him").
The Righteousness of God (δικαιοσύνη Θεοῦ):
This phrase emphasizes a righteousness that originates from God and is of divine quality. It is not merely moral or human righteousness but one that aligns with God’s perfect and holy standard.
In Pauline theology, this "righteousness" is not inherent in believers but is imputed to them through union with Christ.
This righteousness reflects God's justice and holiness but does not suggest equivalence with God's intrinsic righteousness in an ontological sense.
"In Him" (ἐν αὐτῷ):
This union with Christ is key. Believers "in Him" partake in this righteousness, which is credited to them because of their identification with Christ. The righteousness is entirely based on Christ's obedience and sacrificial death.
Imputation, Not Identity:
While believers are described as becoming "the righteousness of God," this is not a claim of equivalence to God's own intrinsic righteousness.
Instead, it conveys that believers are seen as righteous because they are covered by Christ's righteousness. The righteousness of God is imputed to believers forensically or judicially, not inherently.
Contextual Clarification:
The first part of the verse highlights Christ's substitutionary role: He was made "sin" (a sin offering or identified with sin) though He was sinless, for the benefit of believers. The outcome is that believers are declared righteous before God, not because they are as righteous as God Himself, but because they are in Christ, who perfectly fulfilled God's righteous demands.
In summary, the passage does not mean that believers become "as righteous as God" in an ontological or absolute sense. Rather, it points to a positional righteousness imparted to believers through their union with Christ, allowing them to stand justified before God.
Let me know if you agree or not.
J.
A couple of things -
1. On 38:00 the video states it quotes a passage of 2 Cor 5:9, but the text isn't about 2 Cor 5:9, a typo? Or maybe I need new glasses
2. I did not quite understand what you said about sanctification, would you agree with gotquestions sanctification as a process ?
A couple of things -
1. On 38:00 the video states it quotes a passage of 2 Cor 5:9, but the text isn't about 2 Cor 5:9, a typo? Or maybe I need new glasses
I checked and the 2 Cor. 5:9 is both stated and displayed at 37:47.
Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 2 Cor. 5:9
What strength of glasses do you use? ;)
I go to God for answers. As such, holiness can never be a process. No one becomes holier with time. Holiness is about God's presence and empowering to walk IN Christ by grace through faith. The burning bush didn't become increasingly holy over time. No, it was holy ground ONLY as God's presence was present.
There is no partial holiness. Anything mixed with holiness is NOT holy. The idea of a process of holiness was invented to try reconciling the lack of power that the carnal man has when reading the bible and somehow realizing that one's behavior is NOT lining up with the biblical narrative. So people tend to die in their sins without seeking God and His visitation, presence and empowering. Such are "comforted" in their lack of progress by saying that over time doing nothing will improve their condition. It never happens....at least not on a scale that God notices so that He can say...well done.
All religious theories fall short of the truth. A person is free to adopt one of the many theories that abound...OR,,, seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:3-11 (NKJV)
2 Peter 1:3-11 (NKJV)
1Co 4:7
For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
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